General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[max silver]

Look at Romanos stats the last 3 years and then what Ross signed Chad Green for and then doubled down on with the option

 

Green is one of the few good stories from the pen this season. I'd be perfectly on board with something similar with Romano but I don't know if he would command the same type of dollars.

[Masterbather]

Should we dump KK and trade for/sign a better 4th OF?

 

Don't we want a higher draft pick at this point? I mean you obviously don't want him blocking a young player, but outside of that we shouldn't be looking to upgrade anything at this point.

[Stangstag]

I just heard them say on the broadcast that IKF is using a new approach this year - trying to catch that ball out in front and hit it with authority to the pull side. This would seemingly go against the theory that some believe Donnie Baseball is implementing a "use all fields, let the ball travel, put the ball in play" approach for all/most players.

 

That is definitely puzzling. Whatever he’s doing is working though

[G-Snarls]

Don't we want a higher draft pick at this point? I mean you obviously don't want him blocking a young player, but outside of that we shouldn't be looking to upgrade anything at this point.

 

If I can nab a better 4th OF and replace Mayza with better guys off the DFA scrap heap or cheap low cost trades I'd do it

Edited June 30, 2024 by G-Snarls

[G-Snarls]

#teamnotgivingupyet

[max silver]

If I can nab a better 4th OF and replace Mayza with better guys off the DFA scrap heap or cheap low cost trades I'd do it

 

Yeah I'm getting close to the point where I'd be fine with a few mid range relievers at this point. The offense has finally been showing enough signs on life recently that it could be worthwhile to grab some bullpen help to see what shakes out.

[John_Havok]

If I can nab a better 4th OF and replace Mayza with better guys off the DFA scrap heap or cheap low cost trades I'd do it

 

I agree, but is there really a better 4th OF in all of MLB than KK?

 

Getting paid way too much, granted...but as far as skills go, isn't he exactly what any team would want in a 4th OF?

[Omar]

If Vlad is indeed "back" or at least some semblance of what he was in 2021, then that really puts Atkins in a bind. Disposing of underperforming Vladdy can be explained. But a red hot Vladdy not so easy. Being unable to extend him and inevitably trading him will cause the fanbase to totally rebel. It will turn into a real s*** show for Shapiro/Atkins. I suspect we will end up extending Vladdy at a precious price; ie, his AAV number will start with a 3! This board may not like it but the casual fan base will. Atkins will have no choice. I would give Vladdy $28M AAV without batting an eye right now. I think most on this board wouldn't. So get ready.

[max silver]

I agree, but is there really a better 4th OF in all of MLB than KK?

 

Getting paid way too much, granted...but as far as skills go, isn't he exactly what any team would want in a 4th OF?

 

Kiermaier's bat has been so bad he's nearly unplayable even as a part time bench player. If he were primarily used off of the bench for late inning defense and pinch running I'd have fewer issues with keeping him around but he still receives semi regular starts despite seeing his bat completely disappear for a month at a time.

[John_Havok]

Kiermaier's bat has been so bad he's nearly unplayable even as a part time bench player. If he were primarily used off of the bench for late inning defense and pinch running I'd have fewer issues with keeping him around but he still receives semi regular starts despite seeing his bat completely disappear for a month at a time.

 

Then we're pretty much on the same page.

 

To me the solution really isn't finding a better 4th OF, it's putting KK in the actual 4th OF role, despite his salary

[glory]

If Vlad is indeed "back" or at least some semblance of what he was in 2021, then that really puts Atkins in a bind. Disposing of underperforming Vladdy can be explained. But a red hot Vladdy not so easy. Being unable to extend him and inevitably trading him will cause the fanbase to totally rebel. It will turn into a real s*** show for Shapiro/Atkins. I suspect we will end up extending Vladdy at a precious price; ie, his AAV number will start with a 3! This board may not like it but the casual fan base will. Atkins will have no choice. I would give Vladdy $28M AAV without batting an eye right now. I think most on this board wouldn't. So get ready.

 

Yeah that’s my thinking as well. The Jays will eventually cave and extend him to a deal that’s likely more money/term than they want to give him. More of a Rogers call than Shapiro/Atkins.

[Masterbather]

If Vlad is indeed "back" or at least some semblance of what he was in 2021, then that really puts Atkins in a bind. Disposing of underperforming Vladdy can be explained. But a red hot Vladdy not so easy. Being unable to extend him and inevitably trading him will cause the fanbase to totally rebel. It will turn into a real s*** show for Shapiro/Atkins. I suspect we will end up extending Vladdy at a precious price; ie, his AAV number will start with a 3! This board may not like it but the casual fan base will. Atkins will have no choice. I would give Vladdy $28M AAV without batting an eye right now. I think most on this board wouldn't. So get ready.

I don't think it's going to be a problem because I don't think he's "back". I think he's on a bit of a heater, happens to everybody. Heck even washed Springer has run into a few.

[AMS528]

I don't think it's going to be a problem because I don't think he's "back". I think he's on a bit of a heater, happens to everybody. Heck even washed Springer has run into a few.

 

I mean regardless he has a 143 wRC+ for the season now so he's been unambiguously a very good hitter.

 

Being back beyond that really means MVP level hitter. For the moment he's been a top 20 hitter and that's nothing to complain about.

[Masterbather]

I mean regardless he has a 143 wRC+ for the season now so he's been unambiguously a very good hitter.

 

Being back beyond that really means MVP level hitter. For the moment he's been a top 20 hitter and that's nothing to complain about.

Regardless, he still doesn't fit. We need multiple assets for the rebuild and Vlad being a good hitter this year is THE most critical piece to help get us there. We can't miss on that deal. That's his real value to us now.

[John_Havok]

Regardless, he still doesn't fit. We need multiple assets for the rebuild and Vlad being a good hitter this year is THE most critical piece to help get us there. We can't miss on that deal. That's his real value to us now.

 

I'm just curious as to what kind of return you figure he would fetch.

 

Right now he's a career 131 wRC+ hitter. Are you thinking the Jays are somehow going to get multiple guys back via trade that will end up hitting to that level?

 

That's pretty rare.

 

Understand I'm not opposed to a potential Vlad trade (though I don't think it will happen due to mainly business reasons) I just think he's the kind of guy that when he gets traded, he's easily the best guy in the trade and the guys you get back never get to his level.

 

He's not a superstar on the field right now but he's worth massive money to Rogers as is.

[Masterbather]

I'm just curious as to what kind of return you figure he would fetch.

 

Right now he's a career 131 wRC+ hitter. Are you thinking the Jays are somehow going to get multiple guys back via trade that will end up hitting to that level?

 

That's pretty rare.

This team is years away from being back into contention. I don't see the point in holding on to the biggest trade chip we have. He helps move the process along. It doesn't make sense to hold onto him through his prime years on a bad team when we need assets that will line up with whenever the next window is.

 

The problem is people here just can't accept what this team is and where it's heading in the immediate future. It's approaching time to let go. I believe there are teams that may overpay, we've got to put him on the market.

[max silver]

I don't think it's going to be a problem because I don't think he's "back". I think he's on a bit of a heater, happens to everybody. Heck even washed Springer has run into a few.

 

Lighten up Eyeore. Vlad has been mashing for the last two months now so he very well may be fixed at the plate. He hasn't approached anything close to this level of sustained success since his 2021 breakout. He'll need to prove he can keep it up but I am very encouraged as even when the batted balls weren't leaving the park in May he still produced a monster 166 wRC+ month at the plate. The actual on field results are nearly matching up with the top of the scale expected results over recent months. Now that he's seemingly rediscovered his power stroke he's re-emerging as exactly the top of the order power threat that the club has largely been missing in recent seasons.

 

With regards to Springer check out this recent Chris Black Twitter/X thread outlining recent mechanical changes he made. It appears as though he's unlocked more bat speed which seems to track given how he was able to turn around upper 90's fastballs from Rodon.

 

April 71.0 MPH

May 72.1 MPH

June 72.7 MPH

 

His athleticism was still present given how well he's been running and defending, and with the recent improvements to his overall bat speed he at least has a shot to give the club a boost of offense as well. All that really seemed to be missing was George finally rediscovering his timing at the plate as he's improved his swing decisions allowing him to cut his strikeout rate and boost the walk rate this season.

 

Edited June 30, 2024 by max silver

[John_Havok]

This team is years away from being back into contention. I don't see the point in holding on to the biggest trade chip we have. He helps move the process along. It doesn't make sense to hold onto him through his prime years on a bad team when we need assets that will line up with whenever the next window is.

 

The problem is people here just can't accept what this team is and where it's heading in the immediate future. It's approaching time to let go. I believe there are teams that may overpay, we've got to put him on the market.

 

I have no doubt that he's "on the market", but I struggle to find a team hypothetically willing to overpay for him.

 

I also look at his value to Rogers off the field and even knowing he's underperformed his 2021 ceiling ever since he's unquestionably the face of the Jays and the face of the Rogers marketing machine to the casual fans. And, like it or not, that's a huge factor in his tradeability.

 

Purely from an on field only perspective, of course he's tradeable, every player is. Nobody is untouchable when you look at only the on field part. It's the off-field part that makes it murky with Vlad.

 

I'm not saying its right, or wrong, it's reality. Trading Vlad, regardless of him being the biggest trade chip, is far more impactful than just the on-field product.

 

All of that said, name me the teams you suspect would be willing to overpay and I'll gladly entertain that discourse.

[Omar]

I don't think it's going to be a problem because I don't think he's "back". I think he's on a bit of a heater, happens to everybody. Heck even washed Springer has run into a few.

 

Not like this. The last ten games have been elite.

[Masterbather]

I have no doubt that he's "on the market", but I struggle to find a team hypothetically willing to overpay for him.

 

I also look at his value to Rogers off the field and even knowing he's underperformed his 2021 ceiling ever since he's unquestionably the face of the Jays and the face of the Rogers marketing machine to the casual fans. And, like it or not, that's a huge factor in his tradeability.

 

Purely from an on field only perspective, of course he's tradeable, every player is. Nobody is untouchable when you look at only the on field part. It's the off-field part that makes it murky with Vlad.

 

I'm not saying its right, or wrong, it's reality. Trading Vlad, regardless of him being the biggest trade chip, is far more impactful than just the on-field product.

 

All of that said, name me the teams you suspect would be willing to overpay and I'll gladly entertain that discourse.

 

I don't work for Rogers and I don't care about any of that, obviously that's out of my hands I'm giving my opinion on what I think is best for this franchise, the corporate f***s can obviously do whatever they want.

 

As far as who's willing to pay what for him, I don't know, put him on the market and find out, there's always surprises lurking especially if it's a team that thinks they can sign him to an extension. I would allow teams to discuss an extension with him. Whatever it takes to maximize our return. He's more valuable to someone else than he is to us given the immediate future of this club.

[max silver]

I don't work for Rogers and I don't care about any of that, obviously that's out of my hands I'm giving my opinion on what I think is best for this franchise, the corporate f***s can obviously do whatever they want.

 

As far as who's willing to pay what for him, I don't know, put him on the market and find out, there's always surprises lurking especially if it's a team that thinks they can sign him to an extension. I would allow teams to discuss an extension with him. Whatever it takes to maximize our return. He's more valuable to someone else than he is to us given the immediate future of this club.

 

Even if you think the smart move is to trade Vlad I think it ultimately makes more sense to hang onto him for the rest of this season and see if he sustains the type of offensive output of recent months. Having Vlad fully reestablished as a star player should help to establish a stronger relative trade value for him vs having teams looking to buy him for pennies on the dollar hoping they can be the team to turn him around at the plate moving forward.

[Masterbather]

Not like this. The last ten games have been elite.

10 games.

 

It really doesn't take much for this board to latch onto every last ounce of hope for this team and for Guerrero. We could lose 10 in a row he could go 0 for his next 28 but if we win that 11th and he hits two home runs, everybody will start talking playoffs and 10-year extensions.

[Masterbather]

Even if you think the smart move is to trade Vlad I think it ultimately makes more sense to hang onto him for the rest of this season and see if he sustains the type of offensive output of recent months. Having Vlad fully reestablished as a star player should help to establish a stronger relative trade value for him vs having teams looking to buy him for pennies on the dollar hoping they can be the team to turn him around at the plate moving forward.

 

Having him for an extra playoff run is very valuable. I don't know if you'll get more for him in the off-season. I think there's a lot of teams out there whose stat heads wet themselves over the idea of getting control of Vladimir Guerrero. I don't think it takes much to excite them. Another couple of weeks of even reasonably good hitting and I think there might be teams that bite.

[Olerud363]

If Vlad is indeed "back" or at least some semblance of what he was in 2021, then that really puts Atkins in a bind. Disposing of underperforming Vladdy can be explained. But a red hot Vladdy not so easy. Being unable to extend him and inevitably trading him will cause the fanbase to totally rebel. It will turn into a real s*** show for Shapiro/Atkins. I suspect we will end up extending Vladdy at a precious price; ie, his AAV number will start with a 3! This board may not like it but the casual fan base will. Atkins will have no choice. I would give Vladdy $28M AAV without batting an eye right now. I think most on this board wouldn't. So get ready.

 

I still believe he's destined for the Red Sox. If he is really back the Red Sox are contending and have issues at first this year.

 

Let's say he continues this for another month... He's back. He's a .350 .450 .650 legend and deserves to be destorying the Monster and bring happiness to Boston until 2041. However for the good of the game we don't want to completely destroy Toronto.

 

Is there a trade that works? Cassas, Marcalo Mayer, and Kyle Teel. Too much for fat 1 WAR Vlad, but what if he really is back? What else would the Jays have to give? Not looking for people to say 'yo bro, Red Sox hang up.'. Looking to hear how you make a trade that helps the Red Sox this year, gives them their franchise player (the .350 .450 .650 version of Guerrero) but gives the Blue Jays some small level of hope.

 

This is all assuming hypothetically Vlad is back, probably today when he swings at 3 low and outside sliders, grounds into 2 double plays, and hits a 115 mph single off the wall, I'll realize how stupid it is to think he is back.

[Laika]

Boston probably likes Casas too much. They would have other positions to fill before 1B/DH

[Eat My Shatkins]

Schneider, Varsho and Jansen all dying on the vine at the plate, at least Varsho is a stud on D

Vladdy really surging now with the new found LA

Turner turning it back on now too

Springer lol, better late than never I guess

 

Too bad they couldn't have just held it together enough to hover around .500. Just had to have that 7 game losing streak.

 

When the big bats are going you start to believe they could actually get on a roll.

 

Of course, even with the offense FINALLY doing something, the bullpen is in complete and utter shambles now.

[Olerud363]

Boston probably likes Casas too much. They would have other positions to fill before 1B/DH

 

Casas is out for the year isn't he? They have Dominac Smith and Yoshida at 1b and DH hitting like .230 .300 .330 between them.

 

They could use a legend.

They could use a .350 .450 .650 hitter

They could use the second coming of David Ortiz

They could use the second coming of Manny Ramirez

The city of Boston needs Joy and happiness, the Vladito would provide it.

The city of Toronto needs hope and a future the return for Vladito could provide.

 

Board members pretend for a second...

 

Pretend you are not a dysfunctional malcontent with zero social skills posting on BJMB.

 

Pretend you are a real GM. Pretend you are a salesman, you are an alpha, you are a con-man, you are slick, you are smart, you are rational, you have good social skills, you are a negotiator, you are a persuader.

 

Vladito is not a fat useless 1 WAR failure.. he is legend, he is love, he is happiness, he is Joy, he is Pujols, He is Guerrero but he only has 1.5 years left.

 

Get Toronto something.

[Omar]

If it takes three more years for the Jays to get back into contention there are worse things than a 28 year old Vlad playing first base. He's staying.

 

...and definitely not going to Boston. That's gross.

[Laika]

Casas is not out for the year, he is swinging a bat now

[Olerud363]

If it takes three more years for the Jays to get back into contention there are worse things than a 28 year old Vlad playing first base. He's staying.

 

...and definitely not going to Boston. That's gross.

 

Let's say he re-establishes himself as a top 3 hitter, or close enough a team thinks they can get him there.

 

Here are the teams that can get him

 

1. LA - already set at DH and 1b

2. Yankees - he hates them?

3. Boston - Cassas is there but... Devers/Guerrero = Ortiz/Ramirez (if Guerrero back)

4. Toronto - total s*** show of a franchise and maybe this has run it's course

5. Philadelphia - maybe

6. Atlanta - already set? Maybe AA finds a way to get him back

7. Baltimore - set to be a great franchise and will probably spend before long, but freak park not a fit for Vlad.