General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Daniel Labude]

Is there a reason why we're not calling up Martinez? Is this related to delaying the MLB clock on him? He could easily DH if his defense is THAT bad at 2B.

 

Martinez is back to playing a lot of 3B, from playing only 2B to start the season. When they settle on a position, are conformable with his average defense, and jettison Turner, he will be up

[max silver]

Is there a reason why we're not calling up Martinez? Is this related to delaying the MLB clock on him? He could easily DH if his defense is THAT bad at 2B.

 

Turner has been hitting much better in recent weeks so it could be a little tricky to get Orelvis into the lineup on a regular basis into the DH position. Both of these guys have pronounced splits and hit left handed pitching much more effectively which further complicates matters.

[Eat My Shatkins]

nevermind

[Daniel Labude]

If you dig a little below the surface numbers you find a .342 xwOBA, including .266 xBA, .331 xOBP and .455 xSLG. It simply appears that he isn't being properly rewarded for the quality of contact he's producing over the month.

 

Yeah, point really is why did it take this long to kick Vogelbach and Biggio to the curb

[Eat My Shatkins]

Yeah, point really is why did it take this long to kick Vogelbach and Biggio to the curb

 

For sure, but at least it's finally happened and the Jays aren't out of the fight yet.

[max silver]

Yeah, point really is why did it take this long to kick Vogelbach and Biggio to the curb

 

I'd guess a big part of this has been seeing if Horwitz can play second base effectively enough to warrant playing time there. Once he showed he wasn't a butcher there it removed Biggio's primary remaining avenue for playing time. I thought Vogelbach was more of a place holder until Votto showed whether he offered any upside with the bat, but with Votto taking an eternity to get over the ankle injury it allowed Vogelbach to hang around much longer than expected.

[The_DH]

I had a post about this a little while ago. Looks like Horwitz is deemed to be the real thing offensively but maybe not at 2b so much. He'll probably move over to dh-1b more. Thought he looked fine at 1b. Next logical move is to move IKF into 2b and a platoon of Barger and Clement at 3b with Barger backing up the OF.

[Brownie19]

I'm sure he's very nice and all, but giving him 2M was pretty f***ing crazy

 

I mean - he was a lefty power bench bat who's hit righties well throughout his career. $2M is peanuts.

[Brownie19]

Barger June in AAA: .205/.271/.341. Fantastic timing as usual with this FO lmao

 

They called him up when he was f***ing RED HOT and he went like 0-17 (and yes he may have had other things on his mind).

Edited June 14, 2024 by Brownie19

[The_DH]

Vogelbach hit about .235 when he started playing somewhat regularly. That was probably the best he could do. I'm still surprised he got any time on the 26 man roster anyway. Is it also possible that Votto may be on the radar if Barger isn't ready?

[Brownie19]

They give way too much rope based on past performance.

 

Bo I can see being patient with at this point, he was terrible for the first half of 2022 and ended up with 4.9 fWAR (man we could use a hot streak like that again this year)

 

But holy s*** Springer is cooked. It's June 14th and he's still sporting a .580 OPS and they have three OF's in Buffalo with way better projections than that in Barger, Lukes and Berroa. Barger and Lukes are even on the 40 man FFS

 

It makes me sad to see Springer struggle so bad. He was such a great player in his prime - one of my very favourites. As we know, offense is down across baseball and I was having a look at the bottom of the leaderboard and there seem to be a lot of once great players who are struggling this year - like Springer.

 

Vets that look cooked:

 

- Saurez

- Goldy

- Rizzo

- McNeil

- Castellanos

- Tellez

- Renfroe

- Michael A. Taylor

- Josh Bell

- Haniger

- Benintendi

- Baez

- TA

- Kike Hernandez

 

Great players who seemingly fell off a cliff this year without any explanation:

 

- Arozarena

- Riley

- Michael Harris

- Adolis Garcia

- Manny Machado?

- Soler (obviously not as much success as the others)

 

Younger players who've had success (or a pedigree) in the past, but have been useless this year:

 

- Andrew Vaughan

- Tork

- Cedric Mullins

- Jake Burger

- Colt Keith (never had success)

- Lux

- Evan Carter / Wyatt Langford

- Gelof

 

All of these players have had 150+ PA's this year. Great organizations and s***** organizations are all generally giving these guys lots of PA's this year - much like the Jays continue to with Bo, Springer, Kirk, etc. And like the Jays, the justification varies based on a variety of reasons.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Brownie19

[BatFlip]

It makes me sad to see Springer struggle so bad. He was such a great player in his prime - one of my very favourites. As we know, offense is down across baseball and I was having a look at the bottom of the leaderboard and there seem to be a lot of once great players who are struggling this year - like Springer.

 

Vets that look cooked:

 

- Saurez

- Goldy

- Rizzo

- McNeil

- Castellanos

- Tellez

- Renfroe

- Michael A. Taylor

- Josh Bell

- Haniger

- Benintendi

- Baez

- TA

- Kike Hernandez

 

Great players who seemingly fell off a cliff this year without any explanation:

 

- Arozarena

- Riley

- Michael Harris

- Adolis Garcia

- Manny Machado?

- Soler (obviously not as much success as the others)

 

Younger players who've had success in the past, but have been useless this year:

 

- Andrew Vaughan

- Tork

- Cedric Mullins

- Jake Burger

- Colt Keith (never had success)

- Lux

- Evan Carter / Wyatt Langford

- Gelof

 

All of these players have had 150+ PA's this year. Great organizations and s***** organizations are all generally giving these guys lots of PA's this year - much like the Jays continue to with Bo, Springer, Kirk, etc. And like the Jays, the justification varies based on a variety of reasons.

 

I might have missed your take, but are you convinced Springer is completely cooked or do you think he should still get a bit of leash?

[Brownie19]

I might have missed your take, but are you convinced Springer is completely cooked or do you think he should still get a bit of leash?

 

Honestly? I don't know. I think Steamer still projects him as a 114 wRC+ bat for the rest of the season. No idea how realistic that is.

 

I would have no issue if the team wants to cut back his PA's and wants to give them to Barger to see if he can spark the offense. If Barger hits, then Springer has to work his way back into the everyday lineup. Same goes for KK. That would help me "hit" with one of my Bold Predictions That said, if they think he's showing enough signs of breaking out that they keep him in the lineup - I'd understand that also.

 

My point was that lots of organizations, good and bad, are giving players who aren't performing a lot of at bats. Accordingly, I'm not completely willing to s*** on the Jays for doing it with Springer. It sucks and is hard to watch though.

[Jays24]

Keep dropping Springer in the lineup until we have no choice but to bench him. Batting him 5th is stupid until he shows signs of life.

[Omar]

Since Barger was sent down he's been playing everywhere. 8 out of his last 13 games have been at SS even. Also plenty of LF and 3B and some RF and 1B too.

 

The long game could be that they fall out contention big time and have a plan b or c to move Bichette

[The_DH]

I got the idea that he was only playing everywhere to get a little experience, but more importantly to get some at bats while allowing Orelvis to gain some 3b experience. I'd like to hear what the plan is for him up here.

[Barrelsandbombs]

[AMS528]

 

That's amazing and just hilariously transparent.

[Jays24]

 

That is just so pathetic and everything we should come to expect from the Shatkins regime lol.

[The_DH]

There's been a few big moves around the league very recently. Just seems like a few players getting released.

[Jays24]

 

Luis Roberts, come on down lol

[Jays24]

If you dig a little below the surface numbers you find a .342 xwOBA, including .266 xBA, .331 xOBP and .455 xSLG. It simply appears that he isn't being properly rewarded for the quality of contact he's producing over the month.

 

Either you're Loud-Picture9110 on Reddit or you're copying and pasting someone else's work

[Jays24]

 

Yep, he gone for Barger.

 

From batting Cleanup for the Blue Jays to getting DFA'd #2024BlueJays

[Stangstag]

 

Gross

[The_DH]

 

Luis Roberts, come on down lol

 

Only players worth watching in both those games were Barger and Orelvis. Both guys played different positions on those 2 games. My guess is Orelvis being considered for Roberts.

[Jays24]

Only players worth watching in both those games were Barger and Orelvis. Both guys played different positions on those 2 games. My guess is Orelvis being considered for Roberts.

 

Ya it's not a secret that we don't have any other real prospects to pull a move off for someone like Roberts. Can see them punting 2024 by selling off all their rentals and making pushes for guys with control to make a push in 2025.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Robert isn't exactly lighting the world on fire this year, and he's certainly no superstar caliber player.

 

He'd be a nice add to see if he can turn it around and a big upgrade to Springer/KK but I certainly wouldn't pay through the teeth to get him here.

[Brownie19]

Robert isn't exactly lighting the world on fire this year, and he's certainly no superstar caliber player.

 

He'd be a nice add to see if he can turn it around and a big upgrade to Springer/KK but I certainly wouldn't pay through the teeth to get him here.

 

I think you're underselling him a bit. 26 years old with big time power with a super team friendly deal until 2027. He's going to cost a ton to acquire. That said, he comes with warts. He's been injury prone and he's a free swinger who rarely walks.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I think you're underselling him a bit. 26 years old with big time power with a super team friendly deal until 2027. He's going to cost a ton to acquire. That said, he comes with warts. He's been injury prone and he's a free swinger who rarely walks.

 

Yeah his deal is really nice for sure, but that 36.7 K-rate this year is frightening and his D value has dropped which also not good, although we wouldn't want him for CF.

[glory]

Robert would add something the Jays need which is ceiling (lots of floor guys in the majors and minors). They need stars and while Robert is flawed in some ways, he still brings star potential on a team friendly deal. I wouldn’t be against it. There’s really no one in the minors I’d consider off limits. Do the Jays have enough to get a deal done? Probably not but it is the White Sox so who knows. Still seems like a Dombrowski move to me.