General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Jays24]

Varsho 5 for his last 34. A little premature spiking of the football by many of you this year

 

Was about to say the same thing... dude has returned to being useless at the plate. We'd hope that would get balanced by Bo/Vlad/Springer taking off but nope...

Edited May 11, 2024 by Jays24

[june.june]

Varsho 5 for his last 34. A little premature spiking of the football by many of you this year

 

Varsho plummeting back to earth, short lived blip on the radar and people were gushing over him LOL

[june.june]

JT carried over a nice offensive thump from Boston with a better spring and a nice start of the season

 

Then Guillermo Martinez happened equipped with his magnificent coaching abilities and a brand spanking new IPad then the Justin Turner’s of the world transformed to be a full pledged 9th hitter

 

Davis Schneider

Ernie Clement

even Big Boy Vogelbach had a decent spring

but Guillermo Martinez indelible stain is so potent that you felt bad for these guys

 

I don’t even have to discuss about what is happening with Vlad/ Springer/ Kirk and Bo this season.

 

Varsho is Varsho, he is a one trick pony.

 

Ross Atkins not firing the hitting coach is a massive dereliction of duty.

 

How much more sample size do they need from last Season.

[BigCecil]

Varsho 5 for his last 34. A little premature spiking of the football by many of you this year

 

wRC+ 115. I’ll take the under on 105 for whole season. With his D if he can be league average, still 3+ WAR value.

[Laika]

Varsho 5 for his last 34. A little premature spiking of the football by many of you this year

 

"Spiking the football" find a new phrase man

[Big_Walleye]

Hello. First post here.

 

I joined because I simply can't understand why this team will not part ways with a hitting instructor that isn't getting the job done.

 

Is there another team that would go this long with good hitters underperforming and not change the voice?

 

It's getting awfully hard to watch.

 

All I keep hearing are senseless comments about trading Vladdy or Bo or Kikuchi. A couple months early for that isn't it?

 

Guillermo Martinez is not even Schneider's guy. Is he even Montoyo's guy? He should have been fired this time last year already.

 

Are they just planning to "stand pat" and let this season go down the drain?

 

I keep hearing what a nice guy he is. We all know where they finish.

 

Have a good one.

[BigCecil]

Hello. First post here.

 

I joined because I simply can't understand why this team will not part ways with a hitting instructor that isn't getting the job done.

 

Is there another team that would go this long with good hitters underperforming and not change the voice?

 

It's getting awfully hard to watch.

 

All I keep hearing are senseless comments about trading Vladdy or Bo or Kikuchi. A couple months early for that isn't it?

 

Guillermo Martinez is not even Schneider's guy. Is he even Montoyo's guy? He should have been fired this time last year already.

 

Are they just planning to "stand pat" and let this season go down the drain?

 

I keep hearing what a nice guy he is. We all know where they finish.

 

Have a good one.

 

Hi Bud, welcome to the Board. My view on this is that these are all MLB players who took a very long road of success and failure at many levels of ball to get to where they are.

 

A hitting coach can help identify or tweak issues and approach, but they have no authority to direct an approach or swing. Nor should they. So their incremental influence is actually fairly minimal. MLB players have so much info and know themselves and their swings well. Its what puts food on their families tables.

 

Its actually a matter of preference. If you polled the players in confidence a certain percentage would like Martinez, and others would prefer another they had in the past, or whatever. Sometimes they click, sometimes they don't. It really doesn't make that much difference at the MLB level.

 

The team has much bigger challenges to deal with.

[Big_Walleye]

Hi Bud, welcome to the Board. My view on this is that these are all MLB players who took a very long road of success and failure at many levels of ball to get to where they are.

 

A hitting coach can help identify or tweak issues and approach, but they have no authority to direct an approach or swing. So their incremental influence is actually fairly minimal. MLB players have so much info and know themselves and their swings well. Its what puts food on their families tables.

 

Its actually a matter of preference. If you polled the players in confidence a certain percentage would like Martinez, and others would prefer another they had in the past, or whatever. Sometimes they click, sometimes they don't. It really doesn't make that much difference at the MLB level.

 

The team has much bigger challenges to deal with.

 

These guys sure don't look like they know their swings all that well at the moment. If they are self-coached then I guess a hitting instructor isn't necessary.

[Krylian]

Hi Bud, welcome to the Board. My view on this is that these are all MLB players who took a very long road of success and failure at many levels of ball to get to where they are.

 

A hitting coach can help identify or tweak issues and approach, but they have no authority to direct an approach or swing. Nor should they. So their incremental influence is actually fairly minimal. MLB players have so much info and know themselves and their swings well. Its what puts food on their families tables.

 

Its actually a matter of preference. If you polled the players in confidence a certain percentage would like Martinez, and others would prefer another they had in the past, or whatever. Sometimes they click, sometimes they don't. It really doesn't make that much difference at the MLB level.

 

The team has much bigger challenges to deal with.

 

If instructors have so little impact one could question why anyone ever gets fired

[Big_Walleye]

If instructors have so little impact one could question why anyone ever gets fired

 

More often than not it's because the team needs a wake-up call. If there was ever a team that needs it...

 

Have a good one.

[Krylian]

More often than not it's because the team needs a wake-up call. If there was ever a team that needs it...

 

Have a good one.

 

They're basically rewarding mediocrity by keeping him around. His impact may be minimal, but his job is to help them player maximize his ability with the bat. Whether he's to blame for this shitshow or not, you can't turn over the entire roster in a day. Need to send a message to the players that their incompetence got a man fired.

[Laika]

A lot of us are generally unhappy with the personnel decisions over the last year

 

Nobody really understands why Don Mattingly is on the bench. The team sort of stopped hitting after he showed up.

[BigCecil]

These guys sure don't look like they know their swings all that well at the moment. If they are self-coached then I guess a hitting instructor isn't necessary.

 

They have about the same impact as a really good caddy for a pro golfer.

 

We spend a lot of time talking about hitting coaches that aren't really that necessary or impactful.

 

If fans and the FO want to fire Mattingly and the rest, so be it. Don't really care much about them. I dont disagree with Kyrlian.

 

We used to make fun of some of the past coaches "pull dat ball" hitting philosophy, and now we are praying someone could impart a "pull and loft dat ball" philosophy on Vlad. That would turn this 113 MPH worm burners into extra bases more of dem ribees.

[Big_Walleye]

They have about the same impact as a really good caddy for a pro golfer.

 

We spend a lot of time talking about hitting coaches that aren't really that necessary or impactful.

 

If fans and the FO want to fire Mattingly and the rest, so be it. Don't really care much about them. I dont disagree with Kyrlian.

 

We used to make fun of some of the past coaches "pull dat ball" hitting philosophy, and now we are praying someone could impart a "pull and loft dat ball" philosophy on Vlad. That would turn this 113 MPH worm burners into extra bases more of dem ribees.

 

Vladdy should be targeting right-centre. IMO his problem is pulling off the ball from trying to pull it to left field.

 

Springer, Varsho, Jansen and Schneider should be pulling everything.

 

Pitchers are getting them out with off-speed stuff. Maybe they should sit on those pitches. When they are hittable. They are swinging at bad ones most of the time. Maybe the new hitting coach can help with that.

 

Have a good one.

[jaysblue]

Varsho 5 for his last 34. A little premature spiking of the football by many of you this year

 

Yup for the Atkins cult it's never too early when Varsho is raking over the first two weeks. But it's too early when players or the team as a whole are struggling over an entire month+.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Varsho is still 7th in the entire league for fWAR among outfielders but yeah, I mean hey.... the guy has had a rough week at the plate so let's get out the pitchforks again why don't we.....

 

Some of you need a new hobby/interest if this one makes you so angry that you have to attack even the good parts of it

[Eat My Shatkins]

It's like some of you absolutely cannot wait for something bad to happen so you can rush to BJMB and start dunking on fans who choose to look for a positive angle and don't let this make them as miserable as you do. It's kind of sad really, but whatever turns your crank I guess.

[connorp]

Varsho is still 7th in the entire league for fWAR among outfielders but yeah, I mean hey.... the guy has had a rough week at the plate so let's get out the pitchforks again why don't we.....

 

Some of you need a new hobby/interest if this one makes you so angry that you have to attack even the good parts of it

 

It’s not about wishing the guy to fail, but we saw what he probably was last year. Not a guy you want as a Corner OF if you have a weak lineup. Put him in CF, get a Corner OF that can hit better, and everyone will be happy. Nope.

And KK being absolutely terrible hitting isn’t something you can say “no way you could see that coming”.

[max silver]

A lot of us are generally unhappy with the personnel decisions over the last year

 

Nobody really understands why Don Mattingly is on the bench. The team sort of stopped hitting after he showed up.

 

I'd be totally on board with the team making a bold move and sacking Mattingly and replacing him with Matt Hague. Hague seems to largely be behind the success of the AAA crew and with how poorly the offense has been performing there really isn't much to lose.

[max silver]

It’s not about wishing the guy to fail, but we saw what he probably was last year. Not a guy you want as a Corner OF if you have a weak lineup. Put him in CF, get a Corner OF that can hit better, and everyone will be happy. Nope.

And KK being absolutely terrible hitting isn’t something you can say “no way you could see that coming”.

 

Why would you say Varsho is a 85 wRC+ hitter when that's the outlier season in his career up to this point? Too many fans instantly assume a single bad season is the only one that counts because it happened in a Blue Jays uniform when they were watching and the previous more successful seasons basically don't exist because they didn't see it occur.

[saskjayfan]

Vladdy should be targeting right-centre. IMO his problem is pulling off the ball from trying to pull it to left field.

 

Springer, Varsho, Jansen and Schneider should be pulling everything.

 

Pitchers are getting them out with off-speed stuff. Maybe they should sit on those pitches. When they are hittable. They are swinging at bad ones most of the time. Maybe the new hitting coach can help with that.

 

Have a good one.

 

Vlad pulls off the ball when he overswings. He's constantly late with his timing, so I wouldn't say he's trying to hit it to left. I'd say his focus is the opposite. With 2 runners on and 2 out the pitcher made a really good pitch and Vlad stayed on it and didn't overswing and hit a liner that just didn't fall. Vlad is moving in the right direction. Home runs come in bunches. He could hit 5 in a week and his numbers would be right where they should be. Bo and Springer a lot further away.

[jaysblue]

Varsho is still 7th in the entire league for fWAR among outfielders but yeah, I mean hey.... the guy has had a rough week at the plate so let's get out the pitchforks again why don't we.....

 

Some of you need a new hobby/interest if this one makes you so angry that you have to attack even the good parts of it

 

Not getting out pitchforks haha. I'm very impressed with Varsho still and even as his bat regresses, he's still a very valuable player who can put up a 3-4 WAR. No problem with that at all.

 

My post was more of jab at you guys part of the Atkins cult. You get so excited about a players performance after two weeks in like IKF or Turner but when someone criticizes a player after a month + into the season, "it's too early." But yeah the "it's too early" doesn't apply to you when you rave about IKF or Turner after two weeks into the season lol.

[jaysblue]

It's like some of you absolutely cannot wait for something bad to happen so you can rush to BJMB and start dunking on fans who choose to look for a positive angle and don't let this make them as miserable as you do. It's kind of sad really, but whatever turns your crank I guess.

 

lmao

 

Nah its more about some of the insufferable posters on here who are arrogant and attack you for any constructive criticism of Atkins and this FO.

 

I want the Blue Jays to win a World Series. The Jays were super close in 2015 and 2016. Miss those days for sure!

[connorp]

Why would you say Varsho is a 85 wRC+ hitter when that's the outlier season in his career up to this point? Too many fans instantly assume a single bad season is the only one that counts because it happened in a Blue Jays uniform when they were watching and the previous more successful seasons basically don't exist because they didn't see it occur.

 

He’s 97 lifetime. That’s probably what he is. He would’ve been great to pencil in CF and look to improve OF at least one spot in the Corner

[connorp]

lmao

 

Nah its more about some of the insufferable posters on here who are arrogant and attack you for any constructive criticism of Atkins and this FO.

 

I want the Blue Jays to win a World Series. The Jays were super close in 2015 and 2016. Miss those days for sure!

 

Yeah, this is a really false narrative they want to make. There’s a tiny fraction at best that want to see the Jays fail, so they can fuel some comments here.

 

The thing of it is, it’s not like this season that’s the worry, it’s the 5 year outlook. I don’t think that was too much of a concern last year but now it’s like the terrible reality you’re about to do a 5 year stint in the pen. Not the baseball kind

[max silver]

He’s 97 lifetime. That’s probably what he is. He would’ve been great to pencil in CF and look to improve OF at least one spot in the Corner

 

That's possible that Varsho averages out as an approximately league average bat, but he's up to an 86 game sample size since implementing a toe tap last season and he's produced consistently good results since then. Since early August of last season he's produced a 116 wRC+ so it's not outside the realm of possibility that's about where he ends up this season. Since he implemented these changes he's yet to hit a prolonged slump such as the one which really ruined his overall season numbers so hopefully he can sustain this kind of production.

[BigCecil]

Why would you say Varsho is a 85 wRC+ hitter when that's the outlier season in his career up to this point? Too many fans instantly assume a single bad season is the only one that counts because it happened in a Blue Jays uniform when they were watching and the previous more successful seasons basically don't exist because they didn't see it occur.

 

Varsho 1752 PAs and 97 career wRC+ bat. Thats what he is. About league average. With his D thats valuable, especially when in CF.

 

Unless he establishes a large sample size of something lesser or greater thats what we should expect from him.

[connorp]

That's possible that Varsho averages out as an approximately league average bat, but he's up to an 86 game sample size since implementing a toe tap last season and he's produced consistently good results since then. Since early August of last season he's produced a 116 wRC+ so it's not outside the realm of possibility that's about where he ends up this season. Since he implemented these changes he's yet to hit a prolonged slump such as the one which really ruined his overall season numbers so hopefully he can sustain this kind of production.

 

Bro…you and your arbitrary sample size starting points…that’s your calling card.

[max silver]

Bro…you and your arbitrary sample size starting points…that’s your calling card.

 

It's not arbitrary dummy. Varsho made a pronounced mechanical change and has reliably produced much better results since that point, that should be an easy to understand starting point even for you.

[max silver]

Varsho 1752 PAs and 97 career wRC+ bat. Thats what he is. About league average. With his D thats valuable, especially when in CF.

 

Unless he establishes a large sample size of something lesser or greater thats what we should expect from him.

 

That's what Varsho has been, but it's far from a guarantee that's what he is moving forward. For what it's worth projection systems view him as a 105 wRC+ bat rest of season on the low end, to 116 wRC+ rest of season for his ZiPS projection.