General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Krylian]

[Terminator]

 

Upgrade over our current 5th starter

[BigCecil]

You cannot be serious lol, the only time I bring him up is in response to comments about him. I see at least 20 a day and make about 2 posts about him a week. You make more posts bitching about Chad Green in a DAY than I will make about AA in an entire year pal.

 

In addition, I literally just said he was pretty decent here and think he's doing an even better job in Atlanta. But you AA Fanboys can't handle anything other than pure unbridled praise for him and will literally come crawling out from your caves to fight on his behalf if even a neutral opinion is shared about him. It's absurd and needs to end.

 

Caves lol. You have an AA fetish and seem completely obsessed with him. As a member of the Shatkinite Cult you appear triggered ^.

 

Its just reality neither of them were perfect. But you need to finally let AA go and move into 2024.

 

Also, the Green signing no bueno.

[M.E.]

I was hoping they knew something about developing pitchers. Obviously, it was other guys in the Cleveland org.

 

It was Ruben Nielba who is now the padres Pitching coach

[AMS528]

I just want a decent team and some fun players, man.

 

Other than a few bright lights like Varsho/Schneider/Kikuchi this team has been a drag to watch.

 

The 2021 and 2022 teams were more entertaining.

 

Breaking up the barrio was a mistake.

 

Great offense is just more fun then watching your batters put up three runs a game.

 

2021 really is going to be the best version of this team that existed isn't it. I posted at the time that we may look back on this year with regret, cause you don't get two top three MVP finishers and a CY Young winner all in one season almost ever.

 

Didn't even make the playoffs. Damn Brad Hand.

[Stangstag]

Great offense is just more fun then watching your batters put up three runs a game.

 

2021 really is going to be the best version of this team that existed isn't it. I posted at the time that we may look back on this year with regret, cause you don't get two top three MVP finishers and a CY Young winner all in one season almost ever.

 

Didn't even make the playoffs. Damn Brad Hand.

 

Yup that was a wasted season.

[hanton]

Why not change things up a bit? I'm trying to think of a team that did it; move the top 3 down in the order and maybe go with.....

 

Varsho CF

Schneider LF

Turner DH

Jansen C

Springer

Bo

Vlady

...

 

something like that. Yea it's a bit drastic and not sure how that will go over with the players, has any team ever done something like this? I can't recall

[BigCecil]

Simeon Woods Richardson (23), one of the two top prospects at the time that we traded for Berrios, is off to a good start with the Twins pitching to a 1.78 FIP 1.77 ERA and 10k/9 over his first 21 IP SSS. 0.5 WAR.

[Stangstag]

Simeon Woods Richardson (23), one of the two top prospects at the time that we traded for Berrios, is off to a good start with the Twins pitching to a 1.78 FIP and 10k/9 over his first 20 IP. 0.5 WAR.

 

Martin is looking like a bit of a bust though. Absolutely 0 power, slap-hitting OF with meh D

[glory]

Great offense is just more fun then watching your batters put up three runs a game.

 

2021 really is going to be the best version of this team that existed isn't it. I posted at the time that we may look back on this year with regret, cause you don't get two top three MVP finishers and a CY Young winner all in one season almost ever.

 

Didn't even make the playoffs. Damn Brad Hand.

 

The 2022 team was pretty good as well. It's easy to forget because of the comedy of errors that lead to the Game 2 collapse, but they had the 3rd best record in the AL (3rd best RD), a top 5 offense, and two Cy Young contenders in Gausman and (hard to believe) Manoah. They had 6 offensive players with a 3 WAR or higher (Jansen was at 2.7 in half a season so you can really make it 7), and 8 players with a wRC+ of 115 or better (9 if you count Merrifield's 130 PA). We thought Vlad had a down year with a 3.4 WAR and 133 wRC+. I concur that breaking up the Barrio hurt the team a lot from an entertainment standpoint. Teoscar was a poor defensive player but he was very fun to watch with a fun skill set.

 

What happened to the Jays in 2023-24 needs to be studied. The shift in offense was staggering. They went from a team that looked like they had a deep multi year run in them to a tax paying Cleveland Guardians minus Jose Ramirez.

[WryNGinger]

Aaron Sanchez is back? Honestly surprised he is still pitching, would have assumed he retired.

[Spanky99]

You're going to start Turner at 3rd base 2-3 times a week? yikes - he's started 3 games at 3rd all year (in 35 games). Or are you benching Vlad?

 

The move might be to trade Turner right now for whatever lottery ticket you can get. That would free up space to see what we have in Horwitz/Barger. I support that move.

 

I don't, not on May 6th.

[Spanky99]

So go with a pure speed guy like Cam Eden.

 

Yes.

[Spanky99]

I just want a decent team and some fun players, man.

 

Other than a few bright lights like Varsho/Schneider/Kikuchi this team has been a drag to watch.

 

The 2021 and 2022 teams were more entertaining.

 

Breaking up the barrio was a mistake.

 

Pitching and defense baby!

[Spanky99]

Great offense is just more fun then watching your batters put up three runs a game.

 

2021 really is going to be the best version of this team that existed isn't it. I posted at the time that we may look back on this year with regret, cause you don't get two top three MVP finishers and a CY Young winner all in one season almost ever.

 

Didn't even make the playoffs. Damn Brad Hand.

 

This post hurts, more than you'll ever know.

[Stottlemyres_Bloody_Chin]

Don't forget AA's downfall was often the depth he created. There's some inherent luck that Devon Travis was great as a rookie in 2015 and again in 2016 because there as virtually no backup plan. I guess Goins was the backup plan and well - he sucked, even in 2015, which was his career year. Travis was done as a player after those 2 seasons. AA also got career years out of Pillar and Colabello in 2015 - perfect timing.

 

You could argue Atkins made/left room for Kirk, Manoah, Espinal, Teo, etc. if you wanted.

 

Pompey always sucked. He never played more than 34 games. Goins also sucked balls.

 

You have to be an Atkins family member, it's the only way your posts make sense.

[Spanky99]

You have to be an Atkins family member, it's the only way your posts make sense.

 

[Stangstag]

The 2022 team was pretty good as well. It's easy to forget because of the comedy of errors that lead to the Game 2 collapse, but they had the 3rd best record in the AL (3rd best RD), a top 5 offense, and two Cy Young contenders in Gausman and (hard to believe) Manoah. They had 6 offensive players with a 3 WAR or higher (Jansen was at 2.7 in half a season so you can really make it 7), and 8 players with a wRC+ of 115 or better (9 if you count Merrifield's 130 PA). We thought Vlad had a down year with a 3.4 WAR and 133 wRC+. I concur that breaking up the Barrio hurt the team a lot from an entertainment standpoint. Teoscar was a poor defensive player but he was very fun to watch with a fun skill set.

 

What happened to the Jays in 2023-24 needs to be studied. The shift in offense was staggering. They went from a team that looked like they had a deep multi year run in them to a tax paying Cleveland Guardians minus Jose Ramirez.

 

I find it hard to chalk things up to “bad luck”. The fact that EVERYONE in the lineup started underperforming at the same time makes me feel like some organizational hitting philosophy shift happened after 2022.

 

Your comment comparing this team to the Guardians is interesting…

[jaysblue]

You have to be an Atkins family member, it's the only way your posts make sense.

 

It can be really insufferable. Seems like he has something against AA for some reason lol.

 

When AA or another GM hits on certain players, it's all luck haha. But when it's Atkins, it's because he's amazing.

[Brownie19]

You have to be an Atkins family member, it's the only way your posts make sense.

 

I just stated the facts. AA didn't "create room" for anymore young prospect than Atkins did. It's too bad others can't see that. It's so cute the tampon twins thank every post you make about me.

[vdartanian]

I just want a decent team and some fun players, man.

 

Other than a few bright lights like Varsho/Schneider/Kikuchi this team has been a drag to watch.

 

The 2021 and 2022 teams were more entertaining.

 

Breaking up the barrio was a mistake.

 

Jays need to bring back "Lo Viste"

 

[Laika]

Vlad said in March he wanted to bring back the home run jacket.

 

The Blue Jays killed the jacket before 2023 began. John Schneider said:

 

"It’s time to go from a talented, fun team to a talented, fun team that’s going to scrap and claw and find ways to win games," Schneider said. "It’s a fine line between silly and fun. There’s something to be said about acting like you’ve been there."

 

Perhaps it has nothing to do with the jacket itself but it is curious that when they took away the home run jacket the team stopped hitting home runs. The jacket is silly, but there may be something to be said about incentives and fun and the lizard brains of the adult children who play professional baseball. When you saw the team celebrating with the HR jacket, didn't you want to be part of that? Experience that?

 

LEAGUE RANKS

 

2021

 

HR - 1st

ISO - 1st

Runs - 3rd

 

2022

 

HR - 7th

ISO - 8th

Runs - 4th

 

2023

 

HR - 16th

ISO - 18th

Runs - 14th

 

2024

 

HR - 24th

ISO - 21st

Runs - 25th

[keggy]

Further, that 2015 team was damn good but it was older than dirt and had some major holes that AA did/could not address. One of the most important games in franchise history and Ben Revere and his noodle bat is hitting leadoff, Chris Colabello is batting 5th and Ryan Goins is in the lineup too. It's no wonder we lost to that s***** Royals team.

 

Every single bit of this paragraph is incorrect, I remember 2015 like the back of my hand. The Blue Jays were the best team in baseball by a wide margin.

 

Jose Reyes was making so many errors that there were honestly active discussions of giving Ryan Goins the starting SS slot. We brought in the best SS glove in baseball.

 

Colabello was chosen from a position of depth. Him and Danny Valencia were basically playing the same role and people here were furious because Valencia had more control and could play 3B. Apparently Gibbons didn't like Valencia's presence in the clubhouse and Anthopoulos sided with the manager. And a roided up Colabello ended up outhitting him anyways.

 

We replaced our shittiest relievers like Steve Delabar and Bo Schultz with two legitimate backend guys. We also acquired a true number 1 starter, all in the same trade deadline.

 

Anthopoulos patched literally every single hole on that team and was named MLB executive of the year so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

You can bring up all the elite prospects he traded away while ignoring the trades where he absolutely bent the other team over. You can bring up the elite prospects he drafted that went bust. But you can't call that 2015 team anything other than elite. And it was built on the tornado of moves that Anthopoulos made before and during the season.

[Olerud363]

Vlad said in March he wanted to bring back the home run jacket.

 

The Blue Jays killed the jacket before 2023 began. John Schneider said:

 

Yeah... Vlad's next team will have 20 nutrionists and 20 psychologists and 20 biomechanics experts and 5 fun experts.

 

Boston Red Sox/Altanta Braves 3 year Vlad Guerrero costs

 

20 nutrionists - 150k a year (with benefits) = 3 million

20 psychologists - 200k a year (with benefits) = 4 million

20 biomechnics experts - 175k a year (with benefits) = 3.5 miollion

5 fun experts - 100k a year (with benefits) = 500k

 

Vlad Guerrero Salary (coming off of being ruined by Jays) = 3 year 15 million.

 

cost support crew - 11 million

cost Vlad - 15 million

 

Total cost 26 million

 

Performance - 2 triple crowns and one near miss (.320 .410 .650 a year)

 

Happiness provided to Boston/Atlanta- massive happiness provided to community

 

Fun provided to Boston/Atlanta - very much fun and happy times.

[Brownie19]

I do recall the majority of this board hated the HR jacket and hated all the fun the players were having. Most wanted a team focused on winning over fun.

[Laika]

RE: 2015 Jays

 

The position player side was definitely elite. The core players were just too good... a few weak bottom of the lineup hitters did not ruin things.

 

The pitching was middle of the pack though. The Price traded helped a lot. The Hawkins/Lowe additions were minimal. The back end of the pen was great though.

 

They ended up surrendering over 6 runs per game to the Royals in that ill fated series. They started RA Dickey in the ALCS and he get whomped.

The rotation was kind of icky after Price. You had Dickey, Buehrle in his last season, Estrade with his wonky back. Stroman was a bit of a wild card coming off the surgery that year.

[AMS528]

I do recall the majority of this board hated the HR jacket and hated all the fun the players were having. Most wanted a team focused on winning over fun.

 

Hmmm can't say I'm enjoying the no fun+no winning version of this team.

[Laika]

I do recall the majority of this board hated the HR jacket and hated all the fun the players were having. Most wanted a team focused on winning over fun.

 

The organization's overreaction to one tough playoff loss in 2022 may be the biggest mistake they ever made!

[Olerud363]

Every single bit of this paragraph is incorrect, I remember 2015 like the back of my hand. The Blue Jays were the best team in baseball by a wide margin.

 

Is it though? Both the 2015 and 2021 Jays should not be evaluated as they were when beating the crap out of Detroit (in 2015) or Baltimore (in 2021) in a regular season game, and not as they looked from pumping stats in such games, but as they looked with October 1st the middle point of some range.

 

Who is Vlad Guerrero Jr. ? Who is Robbie Ray ? Who is Marcus Stroman? Who is Chris Collabello ? Who is Ryan Goins ? Who was Tulo on October 1st 2015? Who was Kevin Pillar? Teoscar Hernandez?

 

Who were these people?

 

I think it is a mistake to evaluate them just on how they looked going backwards from October 1st with arbitrary window of 6 months, but more who they really are on that day evaluated based on career arc with nearest games weighted more (both nearby past and future games).

 

So Just because Guerrero, Teoscar, Springer, Bautista, Colabello, Goins, Pillar, and Revere played great sometime that summer, doesn't mean on October 1st 2015/October 1st 2021 they should be evaluated just by playing good that summer but by who they really were that day, some of which is reflected in how they played in 2022/2016.

[max silver]

It can be really insufferable. Seems like he has something against AA for some reason lol.

 

When AA or another GM hits on certain players, it's all luck haha. But when it's Atkins, it's because he's amazing.

 

You have so little self awareness that it's astounding. You are the poster child for ascribing all of Atkin's successes to "luck" so there's no reason to be patting yourself on the back.