General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[glory]

Optioning Pearson is revolting

 

Cabrera has an option...

 

Seriously, Cabrera is awful. Look at the track record. He hasn't even been good this season. I can't believe the Jays are looking at which hand the ball is thrown out of rather than actual talent. Not saying Pearson is a stud or anything, but him vs Genesis is a no brainer.

[Olerud363]

Optioning Pearson is revolting

 

Cabrera has an option...

 

This s*** could build up... The Berrios pulled after two, sitting guys like Schneider and Varsho after game winning homers... Sending Pearson down...

 

I don't know. Isn't there like a human that can override the computer soemtimes with a combination of common sense and human emotion. Not all the time, but just sometimes.

[BTS]

Would have optioned Francis down to stay stretched out instead of Pearson. Rodriguez should be good for 90 pitches, so the team has a legit five-man rotation and loaded pen. Richards is fine as the long guy.

[Jays24]

This s*** could build up... The Berrios pulled after two, sitting guys like Schneider and Varsho after game winning homers... Sending Pearson down...

 

I don't know. Isn't there like a human that can override the computer soemtimes with a combination of common sense and human emotion. Not all the time, but just sometimes.

 

Nope... everyone needs to be a computer on this team. Not allowed to have human emotions with this franchise lol.

[Spanky99]

Optioning Pearson is revolting

 

Cabrera has an option...

 

Yeah, I thought it'd be Sega getting optioned, Pearson has been good.

 

Oof...

[Spanky99]

Funny how he suddenly got patriotic when he needed a job. I still don't get why Brandon Belt isn't here, how much could he possibly cost at this point?

 

Cause Belt wants to start I'd imagine, not be a bench bat. Pretty simple.

[The_DH]

Well...if they said they went hard then they went hard. Why would they ever embellish something like that?

 

They'd embellish to make it look like they're doing something. Remember Yu Darvish and how we "went hard" for him?

[glory]

Bo has been good, but my point was just that the FO has basically been rotating the deck chairs around a core that's basically just a single 4-win player, and doing a pretty good job of it. The "core" is basically just one guy at this point, with various external additions. And that one guy is likely gone in < 2 years.

 

Yeah, Atkins' strength has definitely been short term MLB signings/trades from 2020-onwards (he was kinda bad from 2017-19 in that area). Obviously having a large payroll is a reason for that, but you still have to hit on those signings, and he has for the most part. Not sure what that says about Atkins moving forward as Vlad and Bo come closer to free agency. Spending big in free agency is not a sustainable team building model. They'll need internal improvements relatively soon. If he stays on, then he needs to have his next core group of players filtering up yesterday. Hitting on Yariel would be huge, and obviously lots of pressure on Tiedemann, Orelvis, Barger, etc, to make an impact in the short/medium term.

 

It's kinda sad that Vlad was not as good as everyone expected him to be. Could have changed the entire dynamic of these last two years, plus 2024-25 as well. Now he's legitimately a non tender candidate after this season.

[metafour]

They'd embellish to make it look like they're doing something. Remember Yu Darvish and how we "went hard" for him?

 

Ahhh yes, it definitely helps them to "embellish" and make things up, only for those players to go elsewhere because they actually secretly had no intentions of even signing them. Because that definitely drives fan approval and makes fans happy, am I right?. I mean you're on here still bringing up Darsvish who signed in 2011 LMAO. Pray tell, how does this practice of "embellishing" help them at all?

 

Do you know Occam's razor? There are 29 other MLB teams, all scouting and vying for the same players.

 

The Yu Darvish "serious interest" stories being reported from the media actually came because higher-up Jays management was constantly being seen scouting his starts in Japan. Next you're going to tell me that they sent those guys to all his games in Japan so that they could "embellish" their interest and get fans' hopes up for a whopping 1-2 weeks LOL. That makes sense. Or....the interest was real, and the Rangers simply just won the bidding? Crazy theory, I know.

[Spanky99]

They'd embellish to make it look like they're doing something. Remember Yu Darvish and how we "went hard" for him?

 

Ohtani's camp sent the remaining 3 teams the final offer, the contract was from his representation, Toronto and LA agreed to the contract, Ohtani chose LAD, that's what happened.

[max silver]

Yeah, Atkins' strength has definitely been short term MLB signings/trades from 2020-onwards (he was kinda bad from 2017-19 in that area). Obviously having a large payroll is a reason for that, but you still have to hit on those signings, and he has for the most part. Not sure what that says about Atkins moving forward as Vlad and Bo come closer to free agency. Spending big in free agency is not a sustainable team building model. They'll need internal improvements relatively soon. If he stays on, then he needs to have his next core group of players filtering up yesterday. Hitting on Yariel would be huge, and obviously lots of pressure on Tiedemann, Orelvis, Barger, etc, to make an impact in the short/medium term.

 

It's kinda sad that Vlad was not as good as everyone expected him to be. Could have changed the entire dynamic of these last two years, plus 2024-25 as well. Now he's legitimately a non tender candidate after this season.

 

Atkins has repeatedly struck gold with the shorter term signings but I fully agree he needs to start adding more long term core players to this roster if it's to be sustainable and if he is to have a chance to keep his job moving forward. They've generally gone after the right guys in free agency but have mostly been unsuccessful at landing the big fish and been forced to pivot to the shorter term fixes instead.

 

I had the same observation as Laika earlier brought up that Vlad's quality of contact metrics are really solid this season, so hopefully this is something that eventually corrects itself over time and he starts receiving the type of results expected of the type of contact he's been producing. Perhaps the xWOBA model doesn't work for Vlad and he's the opposite of the guys who regularly outproduce their expected results. I recall seeing on a game broadcast that the opposition had already accumulated 5 OAA against the Jays so it stands to reason that Vlad has been victimized by some great defensive plays early on.

[Spanky99]

YO BRO... AA and RA have been good with this Org, not great, RA's running out of time for Great, we'll save that for one Pat Gillick.

[MikeM3]

Atkins has repeatedly struck gold with the shorter term signings but I fully agree he needs to start adding more long term core players to this roster if it's to be sustainable and if he is to have a chance to keep his job moving forward. They've generally gone after the right guys in free agency but have mostly been unsuccessful at landing the big fish and been forced to pivot to the shorter term fixes instead.

 

I had the same observation as Laika earlier brought up that Vlad's quality of contact metrics are really solid this season, so hopefully this is something that eventually corrects itself over time and he starts receiving the type of results expected of the type of contact he's been producing. Perhaps the xWOBA model doesn't work for Vlad and he's the opposite of the guys who regularly outproduce their expected results. I recall seeing on a game broadcast that the opposition had already accumulated 5 OAA against the Jays so it stands to reason that Vlad has been victimized by some great defensive plays early on.

 

Doesn't pull the ball properly

[G-Snarls]

 

On behalf of Nate Pearson I say f*** YOU!

[Laika]

yeah it's a 3D batted ball distribution problem

 

a lot of his scorched balls are pulled grounders

 

2024 data

 

he has five batted balls of 100+mph and LA of 10 degrees or more

thirteen batted balls of 100+mph and 9 degrees or less launch angle

 

the amount of hard as f*** groundballs just confuses xwOBA I think. they aren't as likely to be hits as the machine thinks.

[MikeM3]

He could trade like TEN mph of ev on some of his batted balls if they were just pulled flies

[BigCecil]

He could trade like TEN mph of ev on some of his batted balls if they were just pulled flies

 

100%. His numbers against the FB are just dropping from 2021. I think his 2 big shots this year were breaking balls. Can’t remember the last time I saw him barrel up high V and hit it out.

[HomeRunHomer]

Yes and I can't recall any really stellar defensive plays to take away a hit against Vlad. He just hits a lot of hard grounders right at the shortstop.

 

I was really optimistic he had figured things out when he hit that homer to straight away centerfield in one of those first games of the season but he went right back to hitting hard grounders all day and swinging at breaking balls way off the plate.

[Olerud363]

YO BRO... AA and RA have been good with this Org, not great, RA's running out of time for Great, we'll save that for one Pat Gillick.

 

People younger than 40 (Wow!) have no idea what Gillick left Ash. I believe Delgado, Green and Alex Gonzales were all top 10 BA prospects. Olerud and Alomar were 25 and all stars. Pat Hentgen and Juan Guzman had both would get Cy Young votes.

 

What happened between 95 and 2001 was the single greatest series of baseball screw ups in major league history. Ash was a fool who was like the accountant or something, got put in as GM, and did not have the personality for it. Cito Gaston was a maniac who held grudges.

 

Sorry to rant about this (again) but you just can't explain how much talent Gillick left and how badly it was screwed up in every possible way. It was simply lack of understanding of 1980s baseball math (on base percentage good) and lack of understanding of the simplest concepts of keep pitchers healthy.

 

The bizarre thing was like between 89 and 93 Cito was fine with that stuff. Pulled pitchers early, developed good hitters. Maybe it was just Gillick behind the scenes and Cito left to his own devices was a nut.

 

lol. I am sure most people are sick of me going on about 90 Jays. Play Olerud 100 games and Brumfield 50. Let Guzman and Hentgen pitch until their arms fall off (they did).

[bluejaysinternNo5]

yeah it's a 3D batted ball distribution problem

 

a lot of his scorched balls are pulled grounders

 

2024 data

 

he has five batted balls of 100+mph and LA of 10 degrees or more

thirteen batted balls of 100+mph and 9 degrees or less launch angle

 

the amount of hard as f*** groundballs just confuses xwOBA I think. they aren't as likely to be hits as the machine thinks.

 

 

You should write a paper on this subject and become published. Seriously thought, we saw this same phenomenon with Kendrys Morales.

[mphenhef]

Wasn't making the point as a springboard to attack AA. Not even necessarily to praise Atkins, because at this point the lack of controllable impact talent is on the current FO. But it's actually remarkable that they've won 91, 92, 89 games the last three years given how much of the roster had had to come from vets on FA contracts. And they've done it without really mortgaging the future with bad contracts.

 

All that to say, if there's a team in league that needs to find away to land an elite offensive player, it's this one.

 

It certainly has helped that they were able to take the payroll to heights that hadn't been seen by the Jays since the early 90's.

[John_Havok]

100%. His numbers against the FB are just dropping from 2021. I think his 2 big shots this year were breaking balls. Can’t remember the last time I saw him barrel up high V and hit it out.

 

Yeah. It's clear he is sitting soft and waiting for hangers. He's just not ready to hit fastballs. It's weird to because he's still seeing 55+% fastballs coming his way. Why he isn't looking heater is kinda weird.

[Terminator]

If Mitch White is really gone this time then it’s a toss up on whether Nick Frasso can beat the 0.6 WAR that White gave us. De Jesus could also factor in.

 

This is going to come down to the wire folks. All you Frasso fanboys may just in fact be right after all.

[HomeRunHomer]

That Olerud trade to the Mets was quite the blunder. $5 million and Olerud for Robert Person. lol.

[Terminator]

 

The Jays analytics department has heard your criticisms and is now thinking way outside the box you guys

[Terminator]

Moneyball 2: The Ross Atkins Era

 

Starring Danny Devito as Alejandro Kirk, the new C turned 1B

[BTS]

 

The Jays analytics department has heard your criticisms and is now thinking way outside the box you guys

 

Did Votto literally die from stubbing his toe on a bat or whatever? Christ almighty.

[HomeRunHomer]

Maybe Votto was just a publicity stunt.

[max silver]

On behalf of Nate Pearson I say f*** YOU!

 

Yeah that's perfectly f***ed up as it appears the guy might finally be reaching his potential as a late inning weapon and his reward is a demotion to AAA.

[Spanky99]

Moneyball 2: The Ross Atkins Era

 

Starring Danny Devito as Alejandro Kirk, the new C turned 1B