General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[BigCecil]

If Tiedemann gets traded, an already bad 2023 becomes immeasurably worse.

 

No kidding. Was just listening to ESPN Farm/Prospect update. On an apples to apples relative basis the Jays farm ranked 20-23.

 

With Tiedemann dealt or graduated to Jays we move to 25th ish.

 

If and when Martinez comes up or dealt we are bottom 3-4.

[Dale]

Now that the Otani Fiasco is over it is time for Blue Jays management to get serious about developing this team.Yes Otani would be a great addition to any team, but one player, no matter how good he is at his position(s) is NOT goiing to win a championship. The Blue Jays have had a lineup to get them there for the last two years and have failed. A lineup must be total to attain this achievement. Free agency has cost us some very valuable, very talented players. Otani is over! What is it going to take to resign Chapman? One of the best third basemen in the game. We now need to replace our center fielder (who was also one of the best in the game). Bellanger maybe? Looking at the list of possible available players that would fit what the Blue Jays need it is a short list. One name stands out as a definite NO! Somebody in Toronto management likes to say Teoscar. But he is most definitely NOT a player that can lift this team to a championship. Toronto fielded a great team (most of the time) last season but the constant diatribe from commentators was, " boy the Jays sure need to get his bat going". Batting slumps belong in Buffalo. Bring up somebody who can hit. Slump over? Bring them back. The team on the field last season should have been able to hit anybody and score double digit runs in any game all season. Vladdy is a prime example of what not to do. He expects every hit to be a home run so does not ever run to first base to perhaps beat out a throw or cause a throwing error. And when on base he is a very poor base runner. Base stealing needs to be removed from his game completely. And if he is not willng to give one hundred percent in EVERY part of his game, trade him and get somebody who will. Vladdies home run title at the all star event means nothing. It only proves he is strong enough to stand there and swing a bat at that many beach balls tossed in and hit them out. There is no talent to that. Learn to hit difficult pitches and then batting record becomes something. Batting order cannot remain the same just because. If your leadoff hitter isn't hitting, move him. I do not believe that any player should have an assigned position unless they actually earn it. That being said, if players need help recognizing and hitting pitches then make sure they get it. ie: Danny Jansen can hit any pitch, anytime for power. Vladdy cannot. So as fans of our national team we are tired of seeing overpaid also rans and wish to see an actual contender all season long. Find the right players. Get the coaches to do their job and get these players to 100%. Toronto fans basically love the team, that's why the stands are full all season, but we are NOT paying to watch professional players play at 50% of their ability. Paying fans expect 100%. Injuries happen of course. Rehab and get back to what we are paying for. Again, do not be afraid to use Buffalo for a rehab term. Sure Buffalo fans want to see great product there too but ultimately, we are paying to see the Jays win!

[max silver]

No kidding. Was just listening to ESPN Farm/Prospect update. On an apples to apples relative basis the Jays farm ranked 20-23.

 

With Tiedemann dealt or graduated to Jays we move to 25th ish.

 

If and when Martinez comes up or dealt we are bottom 3-4.

 

I think there's a good shot the Blue Jays farm system rankings will improve over the next few years as some of the highest ceiling talent is still getting their feet wet in the lower levels of the minors (Barriera, Bonilla, Nimmala).

[Eat My Shatkins]

That is... certainly a wall of text

[philly30]

Now that the Otani Fiasco is over it is time for Blue Jays management to get serious about developing this team.Yes Otani would be a great addition to any team, but one player, no matter how good he is at his position(s) is NOT goiing to win a championship. The Blue Jays have had a lineup to get them there for the last two years and have failed. A lineup must be total to attain this achievement. Free agency has cost us some very valuable, very talented players. Otani is over! What is it going to take to resign Chapman? One of the best third basemen in the game. We now need to replace our center fielder (who was also one of the best in the game). Bellanger maybe? Looking at the list of possible available players that would fit what the Blue Jays need it is a short list. One name stands out as a definite NO! Somebody in Toronto management likes to say Teoscar. But he is most definitely NOT a player that can lift this team to a championship. Toronto fielded a great team (most of the time) last season but the constant diatribe from commentators was, " boy the Jays sure need to get his bat going". Batting slumps belong in Buffalo. Bring up somebody who can hit. Slump over? Bring them back. The team on the field last season should have been able to hit anybody and score double digit runs in any game all season. Vladdy is a prime example of what not to do. He expects every hit to be a home run so does not ever run to first base to perhaps beat out a throw or cause a throwing error. And when on base he is a very poor base runner. Base stealing needs to be removed from his game completely. And if he is not willng to give one hundred percent in EVERY part of his game, trade him and get somebody who will. Vladdies home run title at the all star event means nothing. It only proves he is strong enough to stand there and swing a bat at that many beach balls tossed in and hit them out. There is no talent to that. Learn to hit difficult pitches and then batting record becomes something. Batting order cannot remain the same just because. If your leadoff hitter isn't hitting, move him. I do not believe that any player should have an assigned position unless they actually earn it. That being said, if players need help recognizing and hitting pitches then make sure they get it. ie: Danny Jansen can hit any pitch, anytime for power. Vladdy cannot. So as fans of our national team we are tired of seeing overpaid also rans and wish to see an actual contender all season long. Find the right players. Get the coaches to do their job and get these players to 100%. Toronto fans basically love the team, that's why the stands are full all season, but we are NOT paying to watch professional players play at 50% of their ability. Paying fans expect 100%. Injuries happen of course. Rehab and get back to what we are paying for. Again, do not be afraid to use Buffalo for a rehab term. Sure Buffalo fans want to see great product there too but ultimately, we are paying to see the Jays win!

 

Not a fan of multiple paragraphs? try some bullet points, you lost me at fiasco

[BigCecil]

I think there's a good shot the Blue Jays farm system rankings will improve over the next few years as some of the highest ceiling talent is still getting their feet wet in the lower levels of the minors (Barriera, Bonilla, Nimmala).

 

Yes. But you could say that about a lot of team’s farms. It’s all relative. These are just the apples to apples comparison facts at a point in time and projecting ahead through the 2024 season, anticipating teams prospects potential movement. It’s ESPN view and rankings only.

[connorp]

This is kind of funny when you relate it to Vlad, Manoah, and Kirk. I was just reading an article on Zion Williamson on how the Pelicans are stressing him to diet and stay in shape and if hasn’t worked. The article had a quote from Zion this last season when asked about staying in shape:

 

“It's hard, man. I'm 20, 22, have all the money in the world. Well, it feels like all the money in the world. It's hard," Williamson said over the summer when asked about eating healthy and staying in top physical shape.

 

At least he’s honest. If not for the money, you’re in the majors and getting tail at the clubs/parties

[BatFlip]

This is kind of funny when you relate it to Vlad, Manoah, and Kirk. I was just reading an article on Zion Williamson on how the Pelicans are stressing him to diet and stay in shape and if hasn’t worked. The article had a quote from Zion this last season when asked about staying in shape:

 

“It's hard, man. I'm 20, 22, have all the money in the world. Well, it feels like all the money in the world. It's hard," Williamson said over the summer when asked about eating healthy and staying in top physical shape.

 

At least he’s honest. If not for the money, you’re in the majors and getting tail at the clubs/parties

 

 

Based on where this off-season is going, we're going to have to hope that our heavyset guys show us something and arrive in better shape and better prepared for the season.

 

Atkins can pick around the peripheries and add DH/LF bats, but we'll need a big rebound from two of Manoah/Kirk/Vladdy. Of the three, I'm not even sure who I would bet on. I suspect at least one will have a big rebound.

[Jimcanuck]

I think there's a good shot the Blue Jays farm system rankings will improve over the next few years as some of the highest ceiling talent is still getting their feet wet in the lower levels of the minors (Barriera, Bonilla, Nimmala).

 

Just boost it after 2024 by trading Bo.

[BatFlip]

I think there's a good shot the Blue Jays farm system rankings will improve over the next few years as some of the highest ceiling talent is still getting their feet wet in the lower levels of the minors (Barriera, Bonilla, Nimmala).

 

There has been some fair criticism of the Jay's (lack of) production of higher end prospects, but I do think the development system will show better in the next few years. Most of the industry feedback has been that the Jays are working well with what they've got in the minors, but the signing/drafting for tools has been somewhat subpar.

[BatFlip]

That is... certainly a wall of text

 

It's a wall of something, but 'text' isn't what comes to mind.

[Show Hey]

We'll find out soon enough how the team shapes up for 2024, but what is the likelihood that Atkins/Shapiro are feeling pressured to do "something big"? Obviously, no signing would be as big as Ohtani, but with last year's team being pretty boring and uninspiring (especially to casual fans), what are the chances management maintains the desire to do "something big" and tries to pull of a massive trade for star power that nobody saw coming?

[Laika]

We'll find out soon enough how the team shapes up for 2024, but what is the likelihood that Atkins/Shapiro are feeling pressured to do "something big"? Obviously, no signing would be as big as Ohtani, but with last year's team being pretty boring and uninspiring (especially to casual fans), what are the chances management maintains the desire to do "something big" and tries to pull of a massive trade for star power that nobody saw coming?

 

Probably a good chance

 

Their calculator brains won't care about it but on a human level they have to feel the same urge as all of us

 

If they are human...

[max silver]

Just boost it after 2024 by trading Bo.

 

There isn't a ready made replacement available in the system though. At that point Bo will only have a single year of remaining control so it remains to be seen what kind of trade return he could garner as well as he's probably more of a very good player that's not quite in the elite category yet.

[max silver]

Based on where this off-season is going, we're going to have to hope that our heavyset guys show us something and arrive in better shape and better prepared for the season.

 

Atkins can pick around the peripheries and add DH/LF bats, but we'll need a big rebound from two of Manoah/Kirk/Vladdy. Of the three, I'm not even sure who I would bet on. I suspect at least one will have a big rebound.

 

Both Vlad and Manoah have been posting a lot of videos of themselves busting their asses in the gym, and I saw a photo of Kirk where he looked like he may have slimmed down as well (tough to tell as he was wearing a loose fitting t shirt) so hopefully all three guys will experience a resurgence next year.

[max silver]

Now that the Otani Fiasco is over it is time for Blue Jays management to get serious about developing this team.Yes Otani would be a great addition to any team, but one player, no matter how good he is at his position(s) is NOT goiing to win a championship. The Blue Jays have had a lineup to get them there for the last two years and have failed. A lineup must be total to attain this achievement.

 

Free agency has cost us some very valuable, very talented players. Otani is over! What is it going to take to resign Chapman? One of the best third basemen in the game. We now need to replace our center fielder (who was also one of the best in the game). Bellanger maybe?

 

Looking at the list of possible available players that would fit what the Blue Jays need it is a short list. One name stands out as a definite NO! Somebody in Toronto management likes to say Teoscar. But he is most definitely NOT a player that can lift this team to a championship. Toronto fielded a great team (most of the time) last season but the constant diatribe from commentators was, " boy the Jays sure need to get his bat going". Batting slumps belong in Buffalo. Bring up somebody who can hit. Slump over? Bring them back.

 

The team on the field last season should have been able to hit anybody and score double digit runs in any game all season. Vladdy is a prime example of what not to do. He expects every hit to be a home run so does not ever run to first base to perhaps beat out a throw or cause a throwing error. And when on base he is a very poor base runner. Base stealing needs to be removed from his game completely. And if he is not willng to give one hundred percent in EVERY part of his game, trade him and get somebody who will. Vladdies home run title at the all star event means nothing. It only proves he is strong enough to stand there and swing a bat at that many beach balls tossed in and hit them out. There is no talent to that. Learn to hit difficult pitches and then batting record becomes something.

 

Batting order cannot remain the same just because. If your leadoff hitter isn't hitting, move him. I do not believe that any player should have an assigned position unless they actually earn it. That being said, if players need help recognizing and hitting pitches then make sure they get it. ie: Danny Jansen can hit any pitch, anytime for power. Vladdy cannot. So as fans of our national team we are tired of seeing overpaid also rans and wish to see an actual contender all season long. Find the right players. Get the coaches to do their job and get these players to 100%. Toronto fans basically love the team, that's why the stands are full all season, but we are NOT paying to watch professional players play at 50% of their ability. Paying fans expect 100%. Injuries happen of course. Rehab and get back to what we are paying for. Again, do not be afraid to use Buffalo for a rehab term. Sure Buffalo fans want to see great product there too but ultimately, we are paying to see the Jays win!

 

Paragraphs are your friend.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Both Vlad and Manoah have been posting a lot of videos of themselves busting their asses in the gym, and I saw a photo of Kirk where he looked like he may have slimmed down as well (tough to tell as he was wearing a loose fitting t shirt) so hopefully all three guys will experience a resurgence next year.

 

That's great and all, and yeah hopefully they have a resurgence...it will lead to the team being good (which is the most important thing to me as a Jays fan) but it will also increase their collective trade values so they can hopefully be traded. IMO it will end up a huge mistake to try and build your team around players who struggle this hard to find the dedication to stay in any semblance of shape even bbefore they have cashed in on big contracts. If they can't do it now, what is going to happen when they all have huge contracts? They will probably balloon up for good.

[BigCecil]

Both Vlad and Manoah have been posting a lot of videos of themselves busting their asses in the gym, and I saw a photo of Kirk where he looked like he may have slimmed down as well (tough to tell as he was wearing a loose fitting t shirt) so hopefully all three guys will experience a resurgence next year.

 

Hope so. Being in shape doesn’t guarantee great results, but it will sure give them a better chance to get them.

[max silver]

Hope so. Being in shape doesn’t guarantee great results, but it will sure give them a better chance to get them.

 

I think with Vlad he's really close to posting monster numbers given the quality of contact. Hopefully being in better shape will improve his range at first base and help keep him healthier as he suffered various knee injuries during the spring and regular season.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Getting in shape won't keep Vlad and his peanut brain from getting picked off 2nd base (when he's not even the lead runner) to end the season lol

[max silver]

That's great and all, and yeah hopefully they have a resurgence...it will lead to the team being good (which is the most important thing to me as a Jays fan) but it will also increase their collective trade values so they can hopefully be traded. IMO it will end up a huge mistake to try and build your team around players who struggle this hard to find the dedication to stay in any semblance of shape even bbefore they have cashed in on big contracts. If they can't do it now, what is going to happen when they all have huge contracts? They will probably balloon up for good.

 

I'd hang onto Manoah at least until he's closer to free agency to see how he performs and what his conditioning looks like before shipping him off. With Vlad I would hope that eventually he clues in to the fact that he needs to be in good shape year over year if he's to create the type of legacy his talent suggests should be possible. With Kirk I'd hang onto him right throughout his team years of control as I don't think the team would ever get fair value back in return. If his body holds up over the long term catching a short term extension may even be worthwhile as he'd likely be pretty inexpensive to hang onto unless he goes full Edgar Martinez output in Danny DeVito's body offensively.

[BigCecil]

Getting in shape won't keep Vlad and his peanut brain from getting picked off 2nd base (when he's not even the lead runner) to end the season lol

 

Gawd. I had blocked that trauma out.

[max silver]

Getting in shape won't keep Vlad and his peanut brain from getting picked off 2nd base (when he's not even the lead runner) to end the season lol

 

Yeah unfortunately you can't give him a brain transplant, but hopefully if he's a little lighter he'd at least have a better chance to get back to the base in time if he's going to wander so far away.

[Jays24]

Guys who need to post their workout videos shows you how infrequent they actually workout unless that's what they do for a living.

 

People don't need to see your fat ass workout in videos... the results will be obvious by looking at them. It should be a lifestyle for most professional athletes, not an Instagram moment lol.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Jays24

[Rimar]

We shouldn't trade both, and if we trade one, should only be for a star player that will stay long term with the jays. So blockbuster trade package for someone like Luis Robert Jr or Mike Trout. But no for guys like Bregman or Isaac Paredes:lol So a trade like Manoah or Tidermann with prospects and Varsho for Trout or Robert Jr. Then sign Soler and Justin Turner , also try get Yamamoto.

[IanK1968]

Season is now over before it began. Need some Gillick style moves

[Eat My Shatkins]

Season is now over before it began. Need some Gillick style moves

 

The Jays had the 5th best pitching staff by fWAR in MLB last season, and didn't lose anyone from it but Ryu and Hicks who were both late season additions anyways.

 

If you've got pitching, you've got a chance.

 

Oh, and the off season is far from over lol

[Jays24]

The Jays had the 5th best pitching staff by fWAR in MLB last season, and didn't lose anyone from it but Ryu and Hicks who were both late season additions anyways.

 

If you've got pitching, you've got a chance.

 

Yup but we do need to ensure we keep most of our elite defense. Losing Chapman and KK would definitely hurt that.

 

Really curious how the offseason goes. Having a weak free agents market with a crappy farm system makes things harder.

[Rimar]

Or maybe it's time to rebuild and trade guys we know won't extend like Bichette, Guerrero for great prospects, and get good returns for our top veterans pitcher like Gausman, Berios. And ofc no sign overrated players like Chapman, Bellinger. Will be important too keep Tiedermann and Manoah, coz they are young and don't cost much.

[Key22]

Yup but we do need to ensure we keep most of our elite defense. Losing Chapman and KK would definitely hurt that.

 

Really curious how the offseason goes. Having a weak free agents market with a crappy farm system makes things harder.

 

And we can't be assured to have any starting pitching injuries for a third straight season or that Manoah will bounce back - he's a big fattie that only hits 94Mph and has no control of his secondary pitches - if that doesn't change he'll be known as a one-hit-wonder.

 

Varsho was considered Elite defensively in CF so he covers KK. Left Field is less important so Varsho was a bit wasted in left. All they need is a competent LF and they will be fine.

 

Third base is another matter - it's just tough to spend on Chapman where you really want big bats on the corner infield and his bat after the first month was pretty terrible. his ops was under .600 for the last 2 months as well as May and June. He was awful for 4 of his 6 months. Tough to give him $100m and 5 years and that may not be remotely enough.