GDT: 1/3 Padres @ Blue Jays (7:07 et)

[G-Snarls]

Not so upset about the one loss

 

Much more upset that I think Manoah is going to cost us a bunch of games over the next few weeks or be sent down with no guarantee anyone else will be better atm

[Omar]

Don't think it's the fact that we lost that has pissed people off, it's the fact that Manoah looks like he should never pitch in the big leagues again.....

 

Yeah, that is a real downer. He may fix it but maybe not this season at this critical juncture. 67 games left and each one gets more important than the next.

 

A lot of people talk about getting rid of the hitting coaches but Pete Walker sometimes gets a pass. On to the next.

[G-Snarls]

Don't think it's the fact that we lost that has pissed people off, it's the fact that Manoah looks like he should never pitch in the big leagues again.....

 

Bingo

[BigCecil]

Why ship KK out? All we need is a platoon bat who can play some LF and DH to pair with him. Should be easy to acquire at the deadline.

 

If we don’t have to to get what we need great. But we shouldn’t take him off the table.

[gruber92]

Not so upset about the one loss

 

Much more upset that I think Manoah is going to cost us a bunch of games over the next few weeks or be sent down with no guarantee anyone else will be better atm

 

The chances of Ryu being better are pretty good.

[BCZ]

Does Manoah know the goal is to throw strikes? Just thought after some years he's forgotten... maybe too much beer destroyed all his brain cells?

[CdnSteeler]

every team loses. Take a chill pill. We are 8 - 2 in our last ten.

 

bfd

[MikeM3]

Manoah is Sanchezing before our very eyes

[G-Snarls]

The chances of Ryu being better are pretty good.

 

Agreed

 

Wish he was ready for this weekend TBH

 

How soon will he be ready for a start?

[John_Havok]

Agreed

 

Wish he was ready for this weekend TBH

 

How soon will he be ready for a start?

 

Threw 66 pitches last time out so, if all they wanted was 75 ish from him, he could likely go this week. Probably want at least 90 though so I’m guessing 2 more rehab outings?

[gruber92]

Agreed

 

Wish he was ready for this weekend TBH

 

How soon will he be ready for a start?

 

Threw 66 pitches last time out so, if all they wanted was 75 ish from him, he could likely go this week. Probably want at least 90 though so I’m guessing 2 more rehab outings?

 

I heard he'll be up to 80 pitches on Friday. If everything goes well in his next start, he could be making his following start with the big club.

[G-Snarls]

So does Manoah start against the Mariners Sunday? Or a bullpen day. Edited July 19, 2023 by G-Snarls

[Stangstag]

So does Manoah start against the Mariners Sunday? Or a bullpen day.

 

Lol of course its the Mariners… where this whole problem started. I feel like you give him 1 more start to see if the tires fall off again. He looked good against Detroit his 1st start back but then back to terrible last night… i’d give him 1 more.

 

If he sucks next start, he gets replaced by Ryu

[Spanky99]

So does Manoah start against the Mariners Sunday? Or a bullpen day.

 

Who knows... they made the right move by sending him down, but rushing him back was inexplicably stupid, we all knew it. I could see Sunday as his last hope on the season, Ryu will be back next week, and I assume the Jays will be getting an arm at the deadline. Ross has been saying it for weeks and the Stroman rumour shows it to be true I think.

[Laika]

I would not give Manoah one more start

 

Last night was so bad statistically that you can just make the conclusion

[Spanky99]

I would not give Manoah one more start

 

Last night was so bad statistically that you can just make the conclusion

 

Yeah, no bueno... he was all over the place. He looked nothing like his last start against the Tigers.

[Stangstag]

I would not give Manoah one more start

 

Last night was so bad statistically that you can just make the conclusion

 

He looked good in Detroit though?? Can’t really pull the plug after 1 bad start when we don’t even have a decent replacement. If so then you gotta ask the front office “why did you even bother bringing him back?”

 

Not enough data to know yet if he’s still s***. 1 more start. Coincides with Ryu’s return. Makes sense IMO.

[Captain_Obvious]

He looked good in Detroit though?? Can’t really pull the plug after 1 bad start when we don’t even have a decent replacement. If so then you gotta ask the front office “why did you even bother bringing him back?”

 

Not enough data to know yet if he’s still s***. 1 more start. Coincides with Ryu’s return. Makes sense IMO.

 

People should stop saying he looked good against Detroit. Result was good. His pitches looked the same to me for the most part.

[max silver]

People should stop saying he looked good against Detroit. Result was good. His pitches looked the same to me for the most part.

 

The difference to my eyes was command this time around. It's not like the Padres hit Alek especially hard in this start, and with a little better luck he may not have allowed any runs. In the first inning he was shafted in the Soto at bat on a clear strike 3 call. Fast forward to the other inning where he allowed 2 runs a ground ball took a big hop off of third base and turned into a double, and Springer lost a ball in the lights that turned into another double.

[John_Havok]

The difference to my eyes was command this time around. It's not like the Padres hit Alek especially hard in this start, and with a little better luck he may not have allowed any runs. In the first inning he was shafted in the Soto at bat on a clear strike 3 call. Fast forward to the other inning where he allowed 2 runs a ground ball took a big hop off of third base and turned into a double, and Springer lost a ball in the lights that turned into another double.

 

What you said is true, but he also missed very few bats. 6 whiffs on 40 swings. Command was bad. One can argue he deserved better based on the shite luck you pointed out, but there no real way to argue that he pitched well either.

[Captain_Obvious]

The difference to my eyes was command this time around. It's not like the Padres hit Alek especially hard in this start, and with a little better luck he may not have allowed any runs. In the first inning he was shafted in the Soto at bat on a clear strike 3 call. Fast forward to the other inning where he allowed 2 runs a ground ball took a big hop off of third base and turned into a double, and Springer lost a ball in the lights that turned into another double.

 

I am not disputing he was unlucky against SD. I am not focusing on the results really, just the quality of his pitches and command. I would not put a higher grade than 40 on any of his pitches or his command.

[Laika]

He looked good in Detroit though?? Can’t really pull the plug after 1 bad start when we don’t even have a decent replacement. If so then you gotta ask the front office “why did you even bother bringing him back?”

 

Not enough data to know yet if he’s still s***. 1 more start. Coincides with Ryu’s return. Makes sense IMO.

 

Everyone DID question the front office decision to bring him back.

 

Detroit is awful.

 

There is bad starts and then there is what Manoah did last night. MLB quality pitchers don't really ever provide an outing with 92 pitches, 3 IP, 5 walks, no strikeouts, and a homer given up.

 

They don't even need a decent replacement because Manoah looks like a sub-replacement level player. I'd feel way better with Bowden Francis on the mound. Throwing Kloffenstein to the sharks is probably better. Heck, Casey f***ing Lawrence might outperform him.

 

I'd just pull the plug now and bullpen game his next turn up. Or spot start Bowden.

[Brownie19]

Everyone DID question the front office decision to bring him back.

 

Detroit is awful.

 

There is bad starts and then there is what Manoah did last night. MLB quality pitchers don't really ever provide an outing with 92 pitches, 3 IP, 5 walks, no strikeouts, and a homer given up.

 

They don't even need a decent replacement because Manoah looks like a sub-replacement level player. I'd feel way better with Bowden Francis on the mound. Throwing Kloffenstein to the sharks is probably better. Heck, Casey f***ing Lawrence might outperform him.

 

I'd just pull the plug now and bullpen game his next turn up. Or spot start Bowden.

 

There were at bats last night where it was obvious that Manoah was going to walk the batter. You could tell he was laboring and doing anything he could to stall and buy time because he's a fat f***. I think there's a real chance he never pitches for the Jays again.

[Spanky99]

There were at bats last night where it was obvious that Manoah was going to walk the batter. You could tell he was laboring and doing anything he could to stall and buy time because he's a fat f***. I think there's a real chance he never pitches for the Jays again.

 

lol

[glory]

The Jays would rather take a bullet to the chest than start Bowden Francis, and there’s no one else in the minors that they’d spot start in all likelihood. They’d rather lose games with Manoah than try to win with someone else, and I’m not sure why. It’s not like the stuff is there but the results aren’t. He looks like s*** and the numbers back it up.

 

If they miss the playoffs by a game (again) then they can just blame themselves at that point. Manoah is definitely starting Sunday. They are waiting for another Astros type start where he gets destroyed before they even think about a move.

[Omar]

Barring a phantom injury Manoah is going to get another start. Atkins will be seeking more confirmation either way. He will be on a short leash but they have to bide time before Ryu is due back. Whenever Ryu does come back they should scrap any ideas of a six man rotation. Just eliminate Manoah from the mix and move on.

[polar bear]

The chances of Ryu being better are pretty good.

 

Can’t be any worse.

[Stangstag]

Everyone DID question the front office decision to bring him back.

 

Detroit is awful.

 

There is bad starts and then there is what Manoah did last night. MLB quality pitchers don't really ever provide an outing with 92 pitches, 3 IP, 5 walks, no strikeouts, and a homer given up.

 

They don't even need a decent replacement because Manoah looks like a sub-replacement level player. I'd feel way better with Bowden Francis on the mound. Throwing Kloffenstein to the sharks is probably better. Heck, Casey f***ing Lawrence might outperform him.

 

I'd just pull the plug now and bullpen game his next turn up. Or spot start Bowden.

 

Oh come on, even legit Aces can have a dumpster fire start every now and then. Probably not with 0 Ks but maybe like 2-3.

 

And yeah im not really arguing that giving Manoah another start is the right choice or not, just arguing the decision shouldn’t be made based on 1 bad start since his return to the rotation.

 

If it were up to me he would have been sent to AAA by mid-May and he wouldn’t have been back yet.

[L54]

It was stupid to bring him back up to begin with. Oh wow he had a good start against the Tigers. I bet he would do ok against the A’s too!!

[Laika]

Oh come on, even legit Aces can have a dumpster fire start every now and then. Probably not with 0 Ks but maybe like 2-3.

 

And yeah im not really arguing that giving Manoah another start is the right choice or not, just arguing the decision shouldn’t be made based on 1 bad start since his return to the rotation.

 

If it were up to me he would have been sent to AAA by mid-May and he wouldn’t have been back yet.

 

It's not one bad start. It's a half season of bad starts, and most recently one extra bad one.

 

I don't think you are appreciating how horrible it is for a pitcher to throw 92 pitches and strike nobody out, while giving up 5 walks and a homer.

 

Bad starts happen. Aces can give up 10 earned runs. But last night, Manoah was bad in a very specific way that:

 

1) demonstrated in a small sample size that he sucks

2) was on trend with his entire season, which demonstrates the same thing

 

This is completely different than a good pitcher just having a random bad start where lots of hits fall in and they don't miss as many bats as usual.