General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Pendleton]

[Brownie19]

I wonder who's in charge of hunting down players to sign to minor league deals (with ST invites). Does Atkins delegate that to some young intern and tell him to scour the bottom of the FA list, looking for players with a glimmer of upside to fill depth holes and then go out and try to convince them that Toronto is the best place for them to get a shot? This must be one of the least glorious components of the position.

[Laika]

I wonder who's in charge of hunting down players to sign to minor league deals (with ST invites). Does Atkins delegate that to some young intern and tell him to scour the bottom of the FA list, looking for players with a glimmer of upside to fill depth holes and then go out and try to convince them that Toronto is the best place for them to get a shot? This must be one of the least glorious components of the position.

 

Getting interesting players signed is probably a numbers game. I bet it is something like this:

 

- the nerds put together preference lists... e.g. here are 15 catchers who may sign an MiLB deal, ranked by how good we think they are

- Atkins has some involvement because professional and agent relationships are involved but a good chunk of the negotiations or calls are left to perhaps the AGMs

 

But these can have big implications so definitely not just dismissed to some kid

[Brownie19]

Yeah - that probably makes sense. The "kid" is probably that initial nerd who drafts up the list, which would then be vetted by AGM's and eventually Atkins. I envision Jonah Hill working his magic and handing the AGM with 51 player evaluations, instead of the 3 that was requested. I guess for that young nerd - that's his time to shine - to find the needle in the haystack and one way to prove his worth.

[Laika]

Yeah - that probably makes sense. The "kid" is probably that initial nerd who drafts up the list, which would then be vetted by AGM's and eventually Atkins. I envision Jonah Hill working his magic and handing the AGM with 51 player evaluations, instead of the 3 that was requested. I guess for that young nerd - that's his time to shine - to find the needle in the haystack and one way to prove his worth.

 

Yeah exactly

Whoever was pounding the table for Ernie Clement last March probably got a lot of brownie points

[Krylian]

That's an interesting observation. Pre-season, you were really happy with the team (most were) and thought they had a legit shot. However, we ran into some really shocking and unexpected s***** years from several regulars and we sputter into a WC birth, s*** the bed and go home. The team may essentially roll out a very similar team in 2024 and that won't be good enough for you - we need to do better, which I assume you believe simply based on the results of last year. The issue is all the variability in the potential outcomes each year. If you simulated 2023 100 times, we might actually win the WS 5 times and win a playoff round or 2 like 60% of the time - yet rolling the dice with the same squad is deemed unacceptable, simply because it failed last year.

 

Well...let's break it down a little. I like out OF defence in 2023. I thought Springer would still be very good offensively. He wasn't....he may bounce back...but he's not getting better with age so there's concern there. Kiermayer outperformed what I thought he'd do offensively last season...I think he'll regress with the bat. Varsho was awful and I confident he'll bounce back...but overall, I don't like our OF offence. I thought Chapman was going to bounce back with the bat in 2023. He did in April...was not good the remainder of the season. I'm not confident in the cast of characters we have at 3B. Bo is Bo. Not really sold on what we have going on at 2B. Every year I hope that Vladdy can be Vladdy of 2021. Maybe he'll be elite this season...but based on his body of work...he's more likely to be average to above average at the plate...with brain farts on the bases and abysmal D. Kirk took a step back at the plate but I have confidence he'll be what he was before...last year is basically the only season he's ever had trouble at the plate...I'm going to go with that being an outlier. DH will be what it will be.

 

On the mound...I like our arms...I just think we were exceptionally lucky with respect to health in the rotation. Odds are we have 1 or 2 injuries that we'll need to navigate around. I don't know how confident I am that our 6th, 7th, 8th guys are ready to step in and hold the fort.

 

So ya...I liked (not loved) our team in 2023...but I think we're poised to be not as good.

 

We went from Ohtani to Kiermayer and IKF...and likely one more move as per Atkins. Can't say that impresses me. Sorry I have higher expectations for this organization that most.

[Krylian]

Good explanation. It pretty much encapsulates how fans think vs how successful business people (sports executives included) think.

 

Fans demand instant gratification and anything less means the GM should be fired. Hitter has a bad month he should be traded. Closer blows 2 straight saves? DFA…he’s worthless. No WS this season? Fire the entire front office before selling the team to someone who actually wants to win. They don’t understand variance or the massive scale of these operations and probably don’t care.

 

Most posters here at least have a better understanding of the game and aren’t Sportsnet article comment section level morons. It’s just that they all have different definitions of what a successful franchise is.

 

It seems to me there’s only 3 or 4 main categories that fans use to determine a successful franchise. Championship wins, playoff series wins, regular season records and how much money is spent to achieve those things. Different people would weight each category differently because reasons. No weighting is ever really “right” …because it’s subjective for each fan.

 

Execs and Owners of course have completely different categories and far different weighting

 

Saying "instant gratification" is disingenuous. Atkins has been here 8 seasons. This is still not a championship calibre team. It's a pretty good team, that is in the post season hunt...but this group is either unwilling or unable to go big. Small market mentality in what should be a big market.

[Krylian]

You guys are talking like the offseason is over... Pffttt...

 

It isn't...but Atkins anticipating one more addition is not what some of us wanted to hear. There's no reason to say that unless that's truly what he believed...he could've just said, "we're still very actively trying to improve the club in any way we can". The fact he said probably one addition is telling. Wants to control expectations because even he doesn't think there will be that much activity left.

 

But let's give it the remainder of the off-season and see how it plays out.

[Jonn]

Signing Soler to DH might be the only way to salvage this disastrous off-season.

 

This team still has zero Power.

[Spanky99]

It isn't...but Atkins anticipating one more addition is not what some of us wanted to hear. There's no reason to say that unless that's truly what he believed...he could've just said, "we're still very actively trying to improve the club in any way we can". The fact he said probably one addition is telling. Wants to control expectations because even he doesn't think there will be that much activity left.

 

But let's give it the remainder of the off-season and see how it plays out.

 

Okay.

[Laika]

Michael Brantley's choices were retire or play for Toronto.

 

He chose to retire.

 

Says a lot about ROSS if we are being honest.

[wilko]

plz close thread.

[Stangstag]

Michael Brantley's choices were retire or play for Toronto.

 

He chose to retire.

 

Says a lot about ROSS if we are being honest.

 

Says alot about how Americans view Canada

[Brownie19]

Michael Brantley's choices were retire or play for Toronto.

 

He chose to retire.

 

Says a lot about ROSS if we are being honest.

 

Is there a link to this? or are you just assuming?

[Laika]

"He received some interest from the Blue Jays this winter but it appears he will hang up his spikes instead."

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

[Terminator]

Michael Brantley is a xenophobe.

[L54]

Haha Michael Brantley has snubbed Ross twice now? Were they not pals in Cleveland?

[wilko]

Haha Michael Brantley has snubbed Ross twice now? Were they not pals in Cleveland?

 

I heard Ross banged Brantley's wife.

[Brownie19]

Signing Soler to DH might be the only way to salvage this disastrous off-season.

 

This team still has zero Power.

 

This will shock you, but Mark Feinsand of MLB is reporting the Blue Jays are showing interest in Soler.

[Dick_Pole]

Michael Brantley's choices were retire or play for Toronto.

 

He chose to retire.

 

Says a lot about ROSS if we are being honest.

 

[jaysblue]

Would have been nice to have Brantley here as a DH/LF but not sure Brantley would have been a great fit with the Jays after the KK signing. They need some power now, so hopefully they add a bat who could DH and/or play sparingly in the OF with 30 HR potential.

 

Still think they need two more bats - someone like Pederson, JDM or Hoskins for the DH spot and another outfielder RHB with some pop like Duvall or Grichuk.

 

Not opposed to Soler but would rather target guys like Pederson, JDM or Hoskins who likely would sign a 1-year or 2-year deal max.

[Terminator]

Haha Michael Brantley has snubbed Ross twice now? Were they not pals in Cleveland?

 

Michael Brantley will do everything he can to avoid playing for the Toronto Blue Jays, including retiring from the game of baseball altogether.

[Terminator]

Not opposed to Soler but would rather target guys like Pederson, JDM or Hoskins who likely would sign a 1-year or 2-year deal max.

 

Yeah between the 4 guys you mentioned and Teoscar you'd think at some point the music will stop playing and one or two of them will be forced to take a 1 year deal. Even Soler and Teo could find themselves looking at less years than they had hoped. Seems wise to wait the DH market out.

[glory]

Would have been nice to have Brantley here as a DH/LF but not sure Brantley would have been a great fit with the Jays after the KK signing. They need some power now, so hopefully they add a bat who could DH and/or play sparingly in the OF with 30 HR potential.

 

Still think they need two more bats - someone like Pederson, JDM or Hoskins for the DH spot and another outfielder RHB with some pop like Duvall or Grichuk.

 

Not opposed to Soler but would rather target guys like Pederson, JDM or Hoskins who likely would sign a 1-year or 2-year deal max.

 

If the Jays are content with running IKF at 3B, then I think they really need to add two bats and push Kiermaier to more of a 4th OF role, which will likely benefit his health/body and still give him 350-450 PA. He even said himself that there was virtually no interest in him this winter aside from the Jays despite him coming off a really good season, so it's not like he needs to play everyday for his next contract. This is what he is. Take the hit defensively and get someone like Teoscar (assuming he's willing to sign a shorter term deal) and then one of the DH options.

[Carlos Danger]

This will shock you, but Mark Feinsand of MLB is reporting the Blue Jays are showing interest in Soler.

 

Good!

[Carlos Danger]

The Giants are looking for SS depth and pitching. Might be a good place to offload Espinal.

 

Or- package an Espinal and Manoah.

[Marew]

Don’t care who we sign, as long as we bring a championship home this year. Technically we are owed 1 every 30 years and pretty sure we are due this year if you count the lockout.

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah between the 4 guys you mentioned and Teoscar you'd think at some point the music will stop playing and one or two of them will be forced to take a 1 year deal. Even Soler and Teo could find themselves looking at less years than they had hoped. Seems wise to wait the DH market out.

 

You would think at some point in time that Hernandez sees Toronto as the ideal spot to maximize his value on a short term contract. He's raked here before and would have a very good chance of being team leader in all the power numbers (SLG, HR, RBI) which should help improve his perceived value to the Jays and other suitors going forward. He was on the team to witness first hand the outcome for Semien. Plus it's the devil you know both from the team and player's perspective.

[BatFlip]

I heard Ross banged Brantley's wife.

 

More likely that Brantley's wife banged Ross.

[Stangstag]

The Giants are looking for SS depth and pitching. Might be a good place to offload Espinal.

 

Or- package an Espinal and Manoah.

 

Wonder if they’d do something like Espinal for Yastrzemski straight up.