General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[L54]

Raptors have been good forever. Not sure how that's much of a surprise. Most other good teams had a couple of really s***** years while the Raptors had just one and that was a shortened season.

 

Because I don’t watch the NBA

[Carlos Danger]

There is no way Ross would do both for Tucker. The Jays would be losing 4.4 BTV surplus value in that deal, while in reality Atkins gains between 5-10 surplus value on almost every trade he makes (at the time these trades are made).

 

Something like Tiedemann plus Kasevich is way closer to realistic in terms of something the Jays could actually consider pulling the trigger on.

 

Are you kidding? For Tucker?? I would do that deal so fast it would make your head spin. Tucker is a game changer.

[Marew]

I think dogg has successfully infiltrated the board once again

 

French soup or me?

[Marew]

Just trying to fit in, don’t want to have something happen and not be the one to have first mentioned the potential trade. French soup gets it. That’s how you start a successful Twitter career.

[DonJays]

French soup or me?

 

You are clearly the same person

[Stangstag]

French soup or me?

 

Yes

[glory]

The Raptors have been poorly run since the championship (aside from drafting Barnes), but 2014-20 they were one of the best run orgs in the league. Depends what timeline you want to focus on.

[Marew]

You are clearly the same person

 

That’s a heavy accusation. I doubt soup appreciates that and I don’t either. You should compare writing styles. He generally has more wild trade ideas and I kind of just took the lead from him.

[Jays24]

The Raptors have been poorly run since the championship (aside from drafting Barnes), but 2014-20 they were one of the best run orgs in the league. Depends what timeline you want to focus on.

 

Exactly... Masai should a statue for what he's done for the franchise but his performance after 2020 has been ridiculously bad. They got paid new extensions to be top of the league but have performed quite the opposite.

 

It's like saying the Jays should have kept Cito Gaston as their manager for eternity because he was the manager of 2 world series titles. Guess what, things change and what was done in the past doesn't always work well for you in the present.

 

Got this douche Brownie trying to speak to me about basketball like he knows a thing lol.

[Brownie19]

The Raptors have been poorly run since the championship (aside from drafting Barnes), but 2014-20 they were one of the best run orgs in the league. Depends what timeline you want to focus on.

 

So they completely nailed the biggest and most important decision they had to make in the last 4 years (passing on Suggs) - yet they are s*** because they haven't been able to sustain the same success they had from 2014-20 forever? Got it.

[DonJays]

That’s a heavy accusation. I doubt soup appreciates that and I don’t either. You should compare writing styles. He generally has more wild trade ideas and I kind of just took the lead from him.

 

I don’t really care if I hurt a trolls feelings. f*** off to the Yankees board

[max silver]

Exactly... Masai should a statue for what he's done for the franchise but his performance after 2020 has been ridiculously bad. They got paid new extensions to be top of the league but have performed quite the opposite.

 

It's like saying the Jays should have kept Cito Gaston as their manager for eternity because he was the manager of 2 world series titles. Guess what, things change and what was done in the past doesn't always work well for you in the present.

 

Got this douche Brownie trying to speak to me about basketball like he knows a thing lol.

 

Given how bad most of your reactionary hot takes about baseball tend to be I don't know why you expect to be taken seriously about basketball either.

[Brownie19]

Given how bad most of your reactionary hot takes about baseball tend to be I don't know why you expect to be taken seriously about basketball either.

 

The guy is a joke. Nobody believes a word he says seriously.

[Jays24]

Given how bad most of your reactionary hot takes about baseball tend to be I don't know why you expect to be taken seriously about basketball either.

 

Lol my life will go on if I don't have some ppl on a message board questioning my basketball knowledge.

 

I will admit my baseball knowledge is secondary as it's not my number 1 sport. I don't mind being schooled at times here because I expect it. Knowledge just isn't as vast as someone who watches a lot more than me.

[wilko]

Lol my life will go on if I don't have some ppl on a message board questioning my basketball knowledge.

 

I will admit my baseball knowledge is secondary as it's not my number 1 sport. I don't mind being schooled at times here because I expect it. Knowledge just isn't as vast as someone who watches a lot more than me.

 

Basketball is gay.

[L54]

Ya stfu about basketball nobody cares

 

LeBron is a champion again 😂

[glory]

So they completely nailed the biggest and most important decision they had to make in the last 4 years (passing on Suggs) - yet they are s*** because they haven't been able to sustain the same success they had from 2014-20 forever? Got it.

 

It's not about sustaining success. After Kawhi left there was no where to go but down. It was about direction and asset management. They have been bad at both since 2020. They got Barnes right which they deserve a lot of credit for (Suggs was definitely the consensus there at the time) but what else was there? Off the top of my head (in no particular order):

 

- Traded Lowry for Dragic/Precious, basically salary filler and a role player.

- They then traded Dragic and a 1st round pick (20th overall) to get Thad Young and a 2nd round pick (33rd overall), dropping 13 picks in order to get a washed Thad and whatever salary relief they got from it.

- Traded Norm (who has been one of the better 3P shooters in the league) for Gary Trent who has actually regressed every year since he joined the team despite being in his early 20's.

- Their last few non-Barnes 1st round picks have been Flynn who doesn't look like an NBA player, and Gradey Dick who has looked like dogshit so far (still too early to judge though).

- Traded a top 6 protected pick for Jakob Poeltl in order to reach the play-in game (which they lost), now they are about to be in the lottery but won't have a pick unless it goes into the top 5.

- Lost Fred for nothing.

 

Look where the team is now. Basically the definition of a treadmill team. Not bad enough to get a top pick but not good enough to make the playoffs (or play in with the way they are looking). The next few months will be critical because Siakam and OG are impending FA's. If they lose 1 or both for nothing like they did with VanVleet then it will set them back big time. If they traded 1 or both and get returns that better align with Barnes' skillset and prime years, then they might be able to salvage things a bit, but I don't think what I said before was unreasonable. They have been pretty bad overall since 2020, and I don't think you'll find too many people that disagree.

[Jays24]

It's not about sustaining success. After Kawhi left there was no where to go but down. It was about direction and asset management. They have been bad at both since 2020. They got Barnes right which they deserve a lot of credit for (Suggs was definitely the consensus there at the time) but what else was there? Off the top of my head (in no particular order):

 

- Traded Lowry for Dragic/Precious, basically salary filler and a role player.

- They then traded Dragic and a 1st round pick (20th overall) to get Thad Young and a 2nd round pick (33rd overall), dropping 13 picks in order to get a washed Thad and whatever salary relief they got from it.

- Traded Norm (who has been one of the better 3P shooters in the league) for Gary Trent who has actually regressed every year since he joined the team despite being in his early 20's.

- Their last few non-Barnes 1st round picks have been Flynn who doesn't look like an NBA player, and Gradey Dick who has looked like dogshit so far (still too early to judge though).

- Traded a top 6 protected pick for Jakob Poeltl in order to reach the play-in game (which they lost), now they are about to be in the lottery but won't have a pick unless it goes into the top 5.

- Lost Fred for nothing.

 

Look where the team is now. Basically the definition of a treadmill team. Not bad enough to get a top pick but not good enough to make the playoffs (or play in with the way they are looking). The next few months will be critical because Siakam and OG are impending FA's. If they lose 1 or both for nothing like they did with VanVleet then it will set them back big time. If they traded 1 or both and get returns that better align with Barnes' skillset and prime years, then they might be able to salvage things a bit, but I don't think what I said before was unreasonable. They have been pretty bad overall since 2020, and I don't think you'll find too many people that disagree.

 

You honestly went into detail that will just go over his head but you definitely nailed it.

[Frenchsoup]

Trevor Larnach for Orelvis Martinez who says no?

[Laika]

Trevor Larnach for Orelvis Martinez who says no?

 

think about it for like 5 seconds before you post, bro

[Frenchsoup]

Why it's better this way lol

[Eat My Shatkins]

I put soup on ignore. Couldn't take it anymore. I tried for a while.

 

Would be nice if everyone did the same haha

[DonJays]

I put soup on ignore. Couldn't take it anymore. I tried for a while.

 

Would be nice if everyone did the same haha

Are there mods on this site?

[Frenchsoup]

Lmao

[Brownie19]

It's not about sustaining success. After Kawhi left there was no where to go but down. It was about direction and asset management. They have been bad at both since 2020. They got Barnes right which they deserve a lot of credit for (Suggs was definitely the consensus there at the time) but what else was there? Off the top of my head (in no particular order):

 

- Traded Lowry for Dragic/Precious, basically salary filler and a role player.

- They then traded Dragic and a 1st round pick (20th overall) to get Thad Young and a 2nd round pick (33rd overall), dropping 13 picks in order to get a washed Thad and whatever salary relief they got from it.

- Traded Norm (who has been one of the better 3P shooters in the league) for Gary Trent who has actually regressed every year since he joined the team despite being in his early 20's.

- Their last few non-Barnes 1st round picks have been Flynn who doesn't look like an NBA player, and Gradey Dick who has looked like dogshit so far (still too early to judge though).

- Traded a top 6 protected pick for Jakob Poeltl in order to reach the play-in game (which they lost), now they are about to be in the lottery but won't have a pick unless it goes into the top 5.

- Lost Fred for nothing.

 

Look where the team is now. Basically the definition of a treadmill team. Not bad enough to get a top pick but not good enough to make the playoffs (or play in with the way they are looking). The next few months will be critical because Siakam and OG are impending FA's. If they lose 1 or both for nothing like they did with VanVleet then it will set them back big time. If they traded 1 or both and get returns that better align with Barnes' skillset and prime years, then they might be able to salvage things a bit, but I don't think what I said before was unreasonable. They have been pretty bad overall since 2020, and I don't think you'll find too many people that disagree.

 

There was always going to be some pain after the success they had in 2015-2019, which resulted in a championship. Complaining about the results from the 29th overall pick is really stupid. Most outside the Top 10 bust anyway. I know that's confusing, given just how good the Raps have been at finding legit stars in the 20's (Siakam & OG). The fact they swung and missed a few times shouldn't be unexpected. The Norm and Lowry situations were all a result of trying to win. Could we have moved FFV sooner? Yes, perhaps. He's a ticking time bomb. They were all aging and approaching free agency. Had to keep them to win, but that killed their long term value - none of them were worth much. Norm's the only one who hasn't declined really, but Lowry and FVV were/are at the end of their time as starters in the league.

 

I agree 100% about the Thad Young move - but if that's the worst thing you did, you're doing pretty good. I'm on the fence, leaning negative about the Poeltl trade. Like the player. Pretty sure they just mis-calculated how high of a pick they'd ultimately give up to give them - nobody's perfect.

 

Definitely agree that what they do with Siakam and OG is going to be very interesting and important. I just don't think a team with the 2nd most wins in the last 10 years, which has produced a championship deserved that type of criticism. It seems pretty obviously that they wouldn't be able to sustain that type of success forever and some down years were coming. I think some have some unrealistic expectations - like nothing is every good enough. Calling the org "incompetent" is just plain stupid.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Brownie19

[Frenchsoup]

Sign Trevor Bauer for 1 Million, he can probably still get outs.

[Stangstag]

Sign Trevor Bauer for 1 Million, he can probably still get outs.

 

Jays should try and sign Donaldson for 3B. Probably still has some left in the tank!

 

1yr for 10 mil probably gets it done

[Frenchsoup]

This is a nice sign by the Yankees

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/yankees-luis-gonzalez-agree-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Luis Gonzalez lefty hitting outfielder who has some pop. Probably better then Verdugo

[Frenchsoup]

That's what he's worth to me and Canada

[wamco]

Such a Christmas spirit around here.

 

What’s the max contract we give either bellinger or Chapman that makes you like the contract?