General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Laika]

Would this count as a "big" set of moves?

 

1. Sign Shota Imanaga

1. Sign Jung Hoo Lee

2. Trade Manoah for Jonathan India+

[Stangstag]

Sox went on record as saying he’s totally off limits- Robert- everyone else in play

 

I don’t think that’s true? Last I had heard is they weren’t actively shopping him, but entertaining offers and it would have to be a big package.

[Dick_Pole]

People operating in here like the other 29 GMs aren't aware of the relative abundance of pitchers available to hitters right now. "Just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA" isn't a strategy that's going to work. Except with a small handful of teams that badly need 3-4 pitchers (and it's debatable whether those teams will go the tank route instead) or some time right before spring training where most players are signed and it becomes more obvious that holes need to be filled through trades.

 

Just like the Stroman trade, just like Varsho trade, Atkins is running his beacon of intentions at full blast. Just waiting for the league to fleece him. This is the difference between a guy like him and AA. AA was always out there hustling and kicking the tires, so you never really knew what he was going to do or what his intentions are.

[connorp]

I don’t think that’s true? Last I had heard is they weren’t actively shopping him, but entertaining offers and it would have to be a big package.

 

I read it, idk. I only read mainstream news, no Twitter feeds and such

[Olerud363]

People operating in here like the other 29 GMs aren't aware of the relative abundance of pitchers available to hitters right now. "Just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA" isn't a strategy that's going to work. Except with a small handful of teams that badly need 3-4 pitchers (and it's debatable whether those teams will go the tank route instead) or some time right before spring training where most players are signed and it becomes more obvious that holes need to be filled through trades.

 

Just like the Stroman trade, just like Varsho trade, Atkins is running his beacon of intentions at full blast. Just waiting for the league to fleece him. This is the difference between a guy like him and AA. AA was always out there hustling and kicking the tires, so you never really knew what he was going to do or what his intentions are.

 

The Stroman trade looks better in the context that Berrios was good in 2023. It was part of a series of moves which depend on Berrios' performance as to how we grade them.

 

In July 2019 Atkins had Marcus Storman, a top 5 pick, and 120 million to spend on a big contract. In 2022 from all that he had Berrios. That Berrios' was much better in 2023 made that series of moves look a little better.

[connorp]

Bob Nightengale. I don’t know much his accuracy. I know he’s hated here

 

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-free-agency/white-sox-make-everyone-available-via-trade-except-for-one-player-mlb-insider-says/518348/?amp=1

[Terminator]

Would this count as a "big" set of moves?

 

1. Sign Shota Imanaga

1. Sign Jung Hoo Lee

2. Trade Manoah for Jonathan India+

 

Ehh, not really a "big" offseason IMO.

[Terminator]

People operating in here like the other 29 GMs aren't aware of the relative abundance of pitchers available to hitters right now. "Just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA" isn't a strategy that's going to work. Except with a small handful of teams that badly need 3-4 pitchers (and it's debatable whether those teams will go the tank route instead) or some time right before spring training where most players are signed and it becomes more obvious that holes need to be filled through trades.

 

Agree on this one. I can see a Manoah trade because he's cheap but the return is going to be someone who carries their own warts. The Cardinals make sense because they seem hellbent on winning which will require 4 starting pitchers that will suck up a ton of money. They also have a plethora of position players that they could move. But I don't see Bassitt or Kikuchi making sense in a trade. Too many middle and backend starters on the market.

 

Just like the Stroman trade, just like Varsho trade, Atkins is running his beacon of intentions at full blast. Just waiting for the league to fleece him. This is the difference between a guy like him and AA. AA was always out there hustling and kicking the tires, so you never really knew what he was going to do or what his intentions are.

 

Hmm it does seem like Atkins is being a little more open and honest with his intentions this year. He usually plays things very close to the vest and there are very few leaks. But I think he kicks the tires on everything as well. This offseason he has to, if we get an expensive LF then we might need a cheaper 3B and vice versa. So he's got to be in contact with all the FAs, both the cheap and expensive, while he also explores multiple trade avenues.

[BatFlip]

People operating in here like the other 29 GMs aren't aware of the relative abundance of pitchers available to hitters right now. "Just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA" isn't a strategy that's going to work. Except with a small handful of teams that badly need 3-4 pitchers (and it's debatable whether those teams will go the tank route instead) or some time right before spring training where most players are signed and it becomes more obvious that holes need to be filled through trades.

 

Just like the Stroman trade, just like Varsho trade, Atkins is running his beacon of intentions at full blast. Just waiting for the league to fleece him. This is the difference between a guy like him and AA. AA was always out there hustling and kicking the tires, so you never really knew what he was going to do or what his intentions are.

 

Totally agree with the first part.

[Ehjays]

Seven Players Reject Qualifying Offers

By Darragh McDonald | November 14, 2023 at 3:00pm CDT

 

All seven players who received a $20.325MM qualifying offer have rejected it, reports Mark Feinsand of MLB.com. The deadline for a decision is today at 3 pm Central but it seems all of Shohei Ohtani, Cody Bellinger, Matt Chapman, Sonny Gray, Josh Hader, Aaron Nola and Blake Snell have already made up their minds.

[Omar]

Big moves this offseason?

 

If via trade it has to involve one or more of Vladdy/Bo/Gausman.

 

If via signing, Ohtani or bust.

 

Everything else falls into the perhaps significant but not Big category.

[glory]

Macko added to the 40 man.

[Stangstag]

Bob Nightengale. I don’t know much his accuracy. I know he’s hated here

 

https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-free-agency/white-sox-make-everyone-available-via-trade-except-for-one-player-mlb-insider-says/518348/?amp=1

 

Ah ok thanks, this is the latest news for sure

[Spanky99]

Oh, is today the deadline for 40 man rosters? Yeah, usually after the meetings but they were cancelled, makes sense.

 

These guys in the top 30 have to be protected...

 

Toronto Blue Jays

 

Dahian Santos, RHP (No. 11)

Alex De Jesus, 3B/SS (No. 19)

+ Adam Macko, LHP (No. 22)

Adrian Pinto, SS/2B/OF (No. 25)

Gabriel Martinez, OF (No. 26)

Dasan Brown, OF (No. 29)

Edited November 14, 2023 by Spanky99

[Jays24]

It's so hard as a Jays fan to have any hope for a guy like Ohtani. We have not been in on guys at his level and contract, most of which I think is smart, and now we are going to give out the biggest contract of all time? Ya, ok lol.

[G-Snarls]

If Ohtani can’t get $500m, he could probably get 3/150 with player opt outs after each year. Word is he’s open to it

 

That would make a lot of sense to a team that needs his bat more than they need his arm

[max silver]

It's so hard as a Jays fan to have any hope for a guy like Ohtani. We have not been in on guys at his level and contract, most of which I think is smart, and now we are going to give out the biggest contract of all time? Ya, ok lol.

 

The Blue Jays were reportedly serious bidders for the services of players like Corey Seager and Gerrit Cole but they've never actually handed out the type of money it would require to sign someone like this. This is the one player in MLB I'd even begin to consider handing out the $400-500 million or more that it would take.

[connorp]

That would make a lot of sense to a team that needs his bat more than they need his arm

 

It he believes in himself and he isn’t getting the offers they thought, it may be a bad way to do it. He should be able to throw for teams next off-season.

[Stangstag]

It's so hard as a Jays fan to have any hope for a guy like Ohtani. We have not been in on guys at his level and contract, most of which I think is smart, and now we are going to give out the biggest contract of all time? Ya, ok lol.

 

Weren’t we like 2nd in line for Gerrit Cole at the time?

 

Reality is, we just aren’t a storied franchise like the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, etc. so we will never be picked unless we overpay

[connorp]

Weren’t we like 2nd in line for Gerrit Cole at the time?

 

Reality is, we just aren’t a storied franchise like the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, etc. so we will never be picked unless we overpay

 

You could fill an AS team with guys we were 2nd on

[Jays24]

The Blue Jays were reportedly serious bidders for the services of players like Corey Seager and Gerrit Cole but they've never actually handed out the type of money it would require to sign someone like this. This is the one player in MLB I'd even begin to consider handing out the $400-500 million or more that it would take.

 

Those contracts on the backend almost always never workout, which is why I've never complained about not paying players on any 10+ year contract. It's like throwing away 100M imo but I'd be first in line buying an Ohtani jersey if it did happen. Like you're saying, if I was going to invest longterm in someone, it would be a Supreme athlete like Ohtani.

 

It's also why I'm so scared what a Vladdy extension could look like. Just say no to fatties.

[max silver]

Weren’t we like 2nd in line for Gerrit Cole at the time?

 

Reality is, we just aren’t a storied franchise like the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, etc. so we will never be picked unless we overpay

 

Yeah that's the sad reality ultimately. I wonder how much more it would have taken to re-sign Semien when he walked in free agency compared to the already somewhat inflated contract that the Rangers offered. Those f***ers really stole our lunch that offseason as both Semien and Seager were preferred targets that we were simply outbid for.

[connorp]

Those contracts on the backend almost always never workout, which is why I've never complained about not paying players on any 10+ year contract. It's like throwing away 100M imo but I'd be first in line buying an Ohtani jersey if it did happen. Like you're saying, if I was going to invest longterm in someone, it would be a Supreme athlete like Ohtani.

 

It's also why I'm so scared what a Vladdy extension could look like. Just say no to fatties.

 

Looking at the backend isn’t the way to do it, you have to look at it the nerd way with WAR. Like Robinson Cano would be an example of a contract the aged terribly but he pretty much earned it all in 5 years. And he wasn’t even consistently the star they hoped. Seager will probably earn his contract in 5 years too. The years just help you spread out the money so you can work with the cap and build a team. In 6 years, the cap will probably be higher by the same amount of what the contract is. In 2018 in was $197m, now $233m. Salaries have remained stagnant compared to the other leagues because mlb teams just spread out years to manipulate the luxury tax. Players and owners seem content to do it that way.

[Marew]

People operating in here like the other 29 GMs aren't aware of the relative abundance of pitchers available to hitters right now. "Just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA" isn't a strategy that's going to work. Except with a small handful of teams that badly need 3-4 pitchers (and it's debatable whether those teams will go the tank route instead) or some time right before spring training where most players are signed and it becomes more obvious that holes need to be filled through trades.

 

Just like the Stroman trade, just like Varsho trade, Atkins is running his beacon of intentions at full blast. Just waiting for the league to fleece him. This is the difference between a guy like him and AA. AA was always out there hustling and kicking the tires, so you never really knew what he was going to do or what his intentions are.

 

Why not just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA and call it an offseason?

[Ehjays]

[Jays24]

 

Wonder if they'll be watching YFC 297 in Toronto lol

[max silver]

Why not just trade a pitcher for a position player and backfill pitching through FA and call it an offseason?

 

Because there are as many as 4 position player spots that need to be filled and the team doesn't have this many pitchers with actual trade value to bring back major league starting pieces. Second base can likely be filled internally with some combination of Espinal, (assuming he isn't non-tendered), Biggio and Schneider, and maybe in a pinch Horwitz could fill the DH/backup 1B opening, but third base and left field both likely need to be filled with external players.

[G-Snarls]

Just trade for Jose Ramirez and be done with it

 

/Out

[max silver]

Just trade for Jose Ramirez and be done with it

 

/Out

 

I recall how reports had the Guardians asking for both Moreno and Martinez as a starting point in trade negotiations. In hindsight that may have very well been a worthwhile trade to make, but there would have been no guarantee Ramirez would have been interested in signing with the Jays long term.

[G-Snarls]

I recall how reports had the Guardians asking for both Moreno and Martinez as a starting point in trade negotiations. In hindsight that may have very well been a worthwhile trade to make, but there would have been no guarantee Ramirez would have been interested in signing with the Jays long term.

 

So much retrospect but if you could magically undo the Varsho trade and do that one instead you would LOL