General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

Kind of hard to see the Jays picking up either of those options. Green picks up his if eligible and if he ends the year on a weird note or injured, I guess?

 

I don't think the team would have negotiated those options if they had no intention of picking them up. If Green ends the season healthy he'll opt out for certain given how expensive premium relievers have become in free agency.

[Laika]

I don't think the team would have negotiated those options if they had no intention of picking them up. If Green ends the season healthy he'll opt out for certain given how expensive premium relievers have become in free agency.

 

Teams negotiate more straightforward things like mutual options all the time, that have basically no chance of getting exercised

 

I mean if Green looks like an absolute weapon from here on, then maybe Toronto takes the financial risk. Just hard to imagine Green being so good that they want to commit $20M+ to him. He's going to throw like, 10 innings.

[max silver]

Gotta love f***ing Heineman screwing us out of an extra couple weeks of Green pitching for the big club.

 

What a stupid situation

 

Was that Heineman's fault? I haven't gone over the footage with a fine toothed comb but it didn't appear to me like Green made much of an effort to get out of harm's way on that throw.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/chad-green-exits-rehab-start-after-getting-hit-on-head-by-catchers-pickoff-throw/

[max silver]

Teams negotiate more straightforward things like mutual options all the time, that have basically no chance of getting exercised

 

I mean if Green looks like an absolute weapon from here on, then maybe Toronto takes the financial risk. Just hard to imagine Green being so good that they want to commit $20M+ to him. He's going to throw like, 10 innings.

 

This contract is anything but a straightforward option style of contract. I don't think I've seen anything like it previously. If Green comes back and dominates I think there's a very good chance the initial option is picked up and Green is a Blue Jay for 3 more seasons at what basically amounts to market rate for a good reliever.

[Stangstag]

Was that Heineman's fault? I haven't gone over the footage with a fine toothed comb but it didn't appear to me like Green made much of an effort to get out of harm's way on that throw.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/chad-green-exits-rehab-start-after-getting-hit-on-head-by-catchers-pickoff-throw/

 

Yeah I guess there’s fault on both sides but you think the guy would have enough self-awareness to NOT throw the ball right at the most important guy on the field

[Laika]

This contract is anything but a straightforward option style of contract. I don't think I've seen anything like it previously. If Green comes back and dominates I think there's a very good chance the initial option is picked up and Green is a Blue Jay for 3 more seasons at what basically amounts to market rate for a good reliever.

 

But the point is that teams enter into option arrangements all the time as a negotiation tactic. It's often MOSTLY just a way to placate the player and get them to sign on the line.

[Terminator]

Chad Green's Contract:

2023: 2.25M

 

2024-2026 Conditions

3 year, $27M club option ($9M/year), if declined:

1 year, $6.25M player option, if declined:

2 year, $21M club option ($10.5M/year)

 

Hmm this will be interesting. If he ends the year strong this will all have played out like the team had expected when they signed him to this crazy contract.

 

But even so, do they want to commit multi-years at 9 to 10.5M? That's a lot for a reliever. Perhaps enough to find someone similar on the market for cheaper?

 

On the flipside, did they really sign a TJS guy to a 1 year 2.25M dollar deal knowing that if he doesn't bounce back they will be on the hook for 6.25 the following year too? Seems like a pretty unnecessary risk but maybe Atkins was trying to make a sneaky deadline addition and expected nothing more out of it?

[Terminator]

I forgot how stupid the money given to relievers was last year.

 

Robert Suarez got 5 years, 46 million lmao. He's got 0.1 WAR so far this year.

 

Rafael Montero got 3 for 34.5M. Has put up -0.1 WAR this year.

 

Taylor Rogers got 3 for 33M. 0.3 WAR for him.

 

That no doubt drove Green's cost up. Will the reliever money still be that high? It's possible. I could see the Jays picking up one of the options. I think they'd probably prefer the two year option, the AAV isn't that much higher.

[Laika]

Chad Green's Contract:

2023: 2.25M

 

2024-2026 Conditions

3 year, $27M club option ($9M/year), if declined:

1 year, $6.25M player option, if declined:

2 year, $21M club option ($10.5M/year)

 

Hmm this will be interesting. If he ends the year strong this will all have played out like the team had expected when they signed him to this crazy contract.

 

But even so, do they want to commit multi-years at 9 to 10.5M? That's a lot for a reliever. Perhaps enough to find someone similar on the market for cheaper?

 

On the flipside, did they really sign a TJS guy to a 1 year 2.25M dollar deal knowing that if he doesn't bounce back they will be on the hook for 6.25 the following year too? Seems like a pretty unnecessary risk but maybe Atkins was trying to make a sneaky deadline addition and expected nothing more out of it?

 

I honestly think Toronto just views the thing as:

 

A. 1/$2.25M in 2023 90% of the time

B. 1/$2.25M in 2023 plus having to pay Green's $6.25M insurance contract in 2024 (Green takes this if he has a serious injury before this year ends) like 8% of the time.

C. 2% chance they love Green so much and he is so good in 2023 that they decide to pick up one of their team options

[Terminator]

I honestly think Toronto just views the thing as:

 

A. 1/$2.25M in 2023 90% of the time

B. 1/$2.25M in 2023 plus having to pay Green's $6.25M insurance contract in 2024 (Green takes this if he has a serious injury before this year ends) like 8% of the time.

C. 2% chance they love Green so much and he is so good in 2023 that they decide to pick up one of their team options

 

That's how I would view it. But the reliever market exploded last year and if Green looks good I think he's a better asset than plenty of guys last year while he would also come cheaper than they would too.

 

Rafael Montero: 3 years, 34.5 mil

Taylor Rogers: 3 years, 33 mil

Chad Green: 2 years, 21 mil

[Laika]

Yes but those contracts look terrible haha

 

The only "big" RP contracts from last offseason that look decent are the mid-tier signings. Kenley, Martin, Strahm, Estevez, Kahnle.

 

I guess the Green options compare to those deals but still a bit high. Estevez and Kahnle were only only 6.75 and 5.75 AAV for two years.

[Terminator]

Yes but those contracts look terrible haha

 

The only "big" RP contracts from last offseason that look decent are the mid-tier signings. Kenley, Martin, Strahm, Estevez, Kahnle.

 

I guess the Green options compare to those deals but still a bit high. Estevez and Kahnle were only only 6.75 and 5.75 AAV for two years.

 

Yeah I hear ya. The more I look at this, the more it's about 50/50 for that two year option if I were making the call on it.

 

Green is better than Estevez and Kahnle IMO. He might even be a premier reliever and he seems to be able to do multi-inning relief too.

 

Obviously his health is everything. But if he has a good end to the year I think that 2 year option is probably going to be close to market rate.

 

I guess we need to look at the bigger picture too. We'll need a 3B, LF, DH and while there will be some internal replacement candidates, 10 mil in FA basically gets you a pretty good LF or DH these days and there's not a ton of money to spend.

 

Close call.

[John_Havok]

Yeah I hear ya. The more I look at this, the more it's about 50/50 for that two year option if I were making the call on it.

 

Green is better than Estevez and Kahnle IMO. He might even be a premier reliever and he seems to be able to do multi-inning relief too.

 

Obviously his health is everything. But if he has a good end to the year I think that 2 year option is probably going to be close to market rate.

 

I guess we need to look at the bigger picture too. We'll need a 3B, LF, DH and while there will be some internal replacement candidates, 10 mil in FA basically gets you a pretty good LF or DH these days and there's not a ton of money to spend.

 

Close call.

 

I'm hearing LGJr and Teoscar Hernandez will be available.

[BigCecil]

I forgot how stupid the money given to relievers was last year.

 

Robert Suarez got 5 years, 46 million lmao. He's got 0.1 WAR so far this year.

 

Rafael Montero got 3 for 34.5M. Has put up -0.1 WAR this year.

 

Taylor Rogers got 3 for 33M. 0.3 WAR for him.

 

That no doubt drove Green's cost up. Will the reliever money still be that high? It's possible. I could see the Jays picking up one of the options. I think they'd probably prefer the two year option, the AAV isn't that much higher.

 

Edwin Diaz

[Spanky99]

Edwin Diaz

 

That was such a freak accident, poor bugger.

[jaysblue]

Yeah I hear ya. The more I look at this, the more it's about 50/50 for that two year option if I were making the call on it.

 

Green is better than Estevez and Kahnle IMO. He might even be a premier reliever and he seems to be able to do multi-inning relief too.

 

Obviously his health is everything. But if he has a good end to the year I think that 2 year option is probably going to be close to market rate.

 

I guess we need to look at the bigger picture too. We'll need a 3B, LF, DH and while there will be some internal replacement candidates, 10 mil in FA basically gets you a pretty good LF or DH these days and there's not a ton of money to spend.

 

Close call.

 

That's even with Ryu off the books. I thought the Jays were in a good financial position though?

 

Jays will need a 2B, 3B, LF, and DH. As well, likely another starter in case Manoah doesn't figure things out.

 

After 2023, you only have a two year window. Jays will have a lot of holes to fill this offseason. Can't be tight at all when it comes to spending or trades. Need to spend within reason to make upgrades.

[jaysblue]

That was such a freak accident, poor bugger.

 

Yeah it's unfortunate what happened to Diaz, but it still was a crazy contract. Not sure he would have lived up to it.

[jaysblue]

I'm hearing LGJr and Teoscar Hernandez will be available.

 

Would love to sign Teo back to play LF or even LGJr as a DH. Though probably would want to also sign a lefty bat for one of those two positions, or else this lineup will be heavily right-handed again.

[Spanky99]

Would love to sign Teo back to play LF or even LGJr as a DH. Though probably would want to also sign a lefty bat for one of those two positions, or else this lineup will be heavily right-handed again.

 

They'll be looking term. If one would take a pillow deal, that'd be fine. I want Teo.

[jaysblue]

They'll be looking term. If one would take a pillow deal, that'd be fine. I want Teo.

 

Yeah if you could sign Teo to a one-year deal, that would be perfect. He probably wants to build back his value and Toronto would be a perfect place for him.

[spats]

Paul Dejong with a big night for the Giants tonight but I guess we needed Espinal for all he brings to the team. I generally like the moves that Atkins has made but this one made no sense at all. I pray that Bo doesn't suffer another injury.

[Masterbather]

Would love to sign Teo back to play LF or even LGJr as a DH. Though probably would want to also sign a lefty bat for one of those two positions, or else this lineup will be heavily right-handed again.

 

If that abomination of an outfielder ever plays defense for us again my head might explode. I love Teo, but I've never seen a more embarrassing outfielder.

[jaysthebest]

We must lead the league in getting shutout.

[jaysblue]

Paul Dejong with a big night for the Giants tonight but I guess we needed Espinal for all he brings to the team. I generally like the moves that Atkins has made but this one made no sense at all. I pray that Bo doesn't suffer another injury.

 

Metafour said Espinal is a better hitter, so we're all good!

[THANOS]

That's even with Ryu off the books. I thought the Jays were in a good financial position though?

 

Jays will need a 2B, 3B, LF, and DH. As well, likely another starter in case Manoah doesn't figure things out.

 

After 2023, you only have a two year window. Jays will have a lot of holes to fill this offseason. Can't be tight at all when it comes to spending or trades. Need to spend within reason to make upgrades.

 

DH is likely filled with Horowitz, and Jays FO are probably hoping 2 of the Schneider/Martinez/Barger crew fill out 3B & 2B along with Biggio.

 

LF is the spot to fill via FA or trade in my opinion.

[glory]

DH is likely filled with Horowitz, and Jays FO are probably hoping 2 of the Schneider/Martinez/Barger crew fill out 3B & 2B along with Biggio.

 

LF is the spot to fill via FA or trade in my opinion.

 

Davis Schneider has a 222 wRC+ and 0.6 WAR in 36 plate appearances and John Schneider doesn't want to use him despite the offense being ass cheeks. I figured the Jays would use a couple of in house options to fill 2024 holes but I don't think it's a certainty. They are staring down the end of their Vlad/Bo window (or should I say "Bo window" instead?) and they haven't seemed eager to use more inexperienced options this season, so they might prefer the vetrin route. What Rogers does with payroll is another issue. I can't imagine a scenario where the Jays miss the playoffs in 2023 and still are a tax team in 2024, but who knows.

[Spanky99]

Davis Schneider has a 222 wRC+ and 0.6 WAR in 36 plate appearances and John Schneider doesn't want to use him despite the offense being ass cheeks. I figured the Jays would use a couple of in house options to fill 2024 holes but I don't think it's a certainty. They are staring down the end of their Vlad/Bo window (or should I "Bo window" instead?) so will they lean more towards vetrins? What Rogers does with payroll is another issue. I can't imagine a scenario where the Jays miss the playoffs in 2023 and still are a tax team in 2024, but who knows.

 

Stop with the hyperbole, man.

 

Like I want to down vote your post, profusely.

[glory]

Stop with the hyperbole, man.

 

I don't think you know what hyperbole means if you think anything I wrote there qualifies.

[Terminator]

Free Babe Schneider

[Spanky99]

I don't think you know what hyperbole means if you think anything I wrote there qualifies.

 

Oh... RLY???