General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[connorp]

Was he projected to be a good fielder at 3B?

 

Yeah, he’s got the arm and is athletic. Just not to be running around the OF and all that. There was never talks of him having to move to 1b, like the butcher prospects always get said about them. That’s why Cards might be swayed with a great offer for NA

[John_Havok]

Was he projected to be a good fielder at 3B?

 

From fangraphs write up in 2022 "On defense, Walker’s ability to bend and get deep into his legs, as well as his lateral agility and range, is incredible for a player his size. There have been some instances this year where he’s backhanded a grounder deep near the third base line and fired a rocket over to first base, but most of his routine throws are casual lobs over to first. There are some scouts who have seen nothing but this type of throw from Walker for entire series, and leaving them with questions about whether he can play third base"

 

looks like he wouldn't use his arm unless he had too, and that led to some scouts having questions about his arm - even though he playes short, 3b and pitched in high school and never had arm questions at all.

 

 

“Normally, when you have someone of his size and physicality, you’re seeing someone who maybe you’re starting to think of moving to the outfield,” Randy Flores, the Cardinals’ assistant GM and director of scouting, told MLB.com after the Draft. “But I believe that his actions, his grace, his speed is reflective of athleticism that positions him for the longest chance possible to stay on the dirt [at third base].”

 

 

Probably looking at average D, power bat 3B.

[Masterbather]

Maybe a playoff team? Come on, this is definitely a playoff team. Definitely not a World Series team? Well if winning the WS is your standard of success then 29 teams will be failures this year. If the Jays win the ALCS I think that would be a huge success. Getting into the World Series anything can happen. Saying we are not good enough to win a WS Championship could be said about any team, so it is really not saying anything at all.

 

No it's not definitely a playoff team, the competition will be fierce and one or two very good teams are not going to make it this year. And while I fully understand that only one team wins the world series, the goal is to try to put together a roster capable of world series. One that gives you the best odds possible, then whatever happens happens. Our pitching staff as currently constructed does not give us great odds unless the competition continues to have injuries. And yes anything less than a world series ultimately is a failure because this is supposed to be our championship window so the point is to win championships. If that's not the point then why even bother trying? You don't have parades for winning the American League.

 

You could never guarantee victory of course, all you can ask of the front office is to put the team in the best position to win. Given the time that they've had, the money that they've spent, the minor league capital they have used, I think they should have built something better. Something that gives us better odds.

[Laika]

I know it's a completely different read but if a guy has a 2nd percentile jump in the outfield, I would expect him to have well below average reaction times at 3B.

 

So he might scout okay because the arm is a cannon and the sprint speed is above average, and his hands might be fine, but I'd still expect him to suck at 3B. But, maybe not as bad as in the OF.

[John_Havok]

I know it's a completely different read but if a guy has a 2nd percentile jump in the outfield, I would expect him to have well below average reaction times at 3B.

 

So he might scout okay because the arm is a cannon and the sprint speed is above average, and his hands might be fine, but I'd still expect him to suck at 3B. But, maybe not as bad as in the OF.

 

I dunno, i think getting a jump on flyballs is probably quite different than a quick reaction at 3b. In the OF he could be taking that extra half second before starting his route because he doesnt read the fly balls well... at 3b you dont have to do that since youre just reacting, you dont have time to judge anything.

 

It's really hard to say since he was moved off 3b early on due to the Cards not thinking there was much point in him continuing there since he was never going to play 3B for them at the ML level with Arenado around. His rush to the OF was largely due to him murdering baseballs and them wanting that bat in the lineup ASAP, and they only position they could get that to happen was the OF.

[Laika]

I dunno, i think getting a jump on flyballs is probably quite different than a quick reaction at 3b. In the OF he could be taking that extra half second before starting his route because he doesnt read the fly balls well... at 3b you dont have to do that since youre just reacting, you dont have time to judge anything.

 

It's really hard to say since he was moved off 3b early on due to the Cards not thinking there was much point in him continuing there since he was never going to play 3B for them at the ML level with Arenado around. His rush to the OF was largely due to him murdering baseballs and them wanting that bat in the lineup ASAP, and they only position they could get that to happen was the OF.

 

But it's just a baseball instincts question. It's sort of the same skill. Not exactly but I bet it's highly correlated.

[John_Havok]

But it's just a baseball instincts question. It's sort of the same skill. Not exactly but I bet it's highly correlated.

 

It's definitely the same type of skill, but probably different enough. Like, I don't think I would expect prime Josh Donaldson or Chappy to have well above average jump times if they moved to the OF. I could be wrong though.

[AMS528]

No it's not definitely a playoff team, the competition will be fierce and one or two very good teams are not going to make it this year. And while I fully understand that only one team wins the world series, the goal is to try to put together a roster capable of world series. One that gives you the best odds possible, then whatever happens happens. Our pitching staff as currently constructed does not give us great odds unless the competition continues to have injuries. And yes anything less than a world series ultimately is a failure because this is supposed to be our championship window so the point is to win championships. If that's not the point then why even bother trying? You don't have parades for winning the American League.

 

You could never guarantee victory of course, all you can ask of the front office is to put the team in the best position to win. Given the time that they've had, the money that they've spent, the minor league capital they have used, I think they should have built something better. Something that gives us better odds.

 

With the exception of last year Jose Berrios has pitched like a very steady #2-3 pitcher for 6 out 7 seasons of his career. Maybe that one season is enough to give that much skepticism, but this year he's 28th in pitching WAR next to Aaron Nola, Charlie Morton, and Ohtani. He's fine. He's a very solid option, and very much back to being the guy who is worth the 100 million dollar deal.

 

You have Gausman and Berrios as your first and third best pitcher and the expectation reasonably would have been that Manoah would have been your #2. I can't really see Manoah's implosion as a failure of the front office. He pitches well again and that would be three three caliber of pitchers you'd want to go into the playoffs with. We literally have the guy who statistically been just about the best pitcher for two seasons. Manoah finished 3rd in CY Young voting last year. Even including his really s***** last year Berrios is 15th in the league over the past 5 years in WAR. Gausman is 8th.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=

 

They may need to pick up a guy like Stroman because of Manoah sucking (although they can hope he bounces back like his last start), but that does not look a rotation that coming into this season that wasn't properly constructed for the playoffs.

[Jimcanuck]

Can't see the Jays giving up what Stroman will cost.

 

There aren't many weaknesses on this team. Espinal is the biggest weakness. He's only on the team for SS. Brendan Rodgers is on a minor league rehab assignment, RHH league average bat with potential for a lot more, 2B/SS capable. Rox might be enticed to move on from him.

[Laika]

It's definitely the same type of skill, but probably different enough. Like, I don't think I would expect prime Josh Donaldson or Chappy to have well above average jump times if they moved to the OF. I could be wrong though.

 

Yeah but do you think Chapman or Donaldson in their 20s are going to go to a corner outfield spot and be f***ing SECOND PERCENTILE at reading balls?

 

That's the whole point. I can buy that certain players might be just okay/average at reading flyballs but great at reacting to grounders to third, or vice versa. But I have a hard time imagining the brain of a player who is ALMOST THE WORST INSTINCTIVE OUTFIELDER IN BASEBALL being average or better at 3B reactions.

[connorp]

Someone like Walker probably never played OF his whole life. When they’re young, that’s where the kids chasing butterflies play. most of your sons I imagine.

 

Then all the sudden like one level before MLB baseball, it’s like: hey, let’s have you chase fly balls. Doesn’t seem so easy idk

[Jimcanuck]

Someone like Walker probably never played OF his whole life. When they’re young, that’s where the kids chasing butterflies play. most of your sons I imagine.

 

Then all the sudden like one level before MLB baseball, it’s like: hey, let’s have you chase fly balls. Doesn’t seem so easy idk

 

No doubt. The Cards made a mistake.

[Laika]

Someone like Walker probably never played OF his whole life. When they’re young, that’s where the kids chasing butterflies play. most of your sons I imagine.

 

Then all the sudden like one level before MLB baseball, it’s like: hey, let’s have you chase fly balls. Doesn’t seem so easy idk

 

Yeah but SECOND PERCENTILE jumps?

 

I've never played a single organized sport and I bet I could react better to flyballs. f***, Jordumb Walker has hit enough flyballs in his career to know how the ball moves.

[connorp]

Yeah but SECOND PERCENTILE jumps?

 

I've never played a single organized sport and I bet I could react better to flyballs. f***, Jordumb Walker has hit enough flyballs in his career to know how the ball moves.

 

Yeah, but at 3b his reach radius is a plus and OF it means nothing really. How many 3b are getting to a 115mph liner in the gap anyway? Just his instincts to balls hit at him really matter at 3b. To be average at least

[connorp]

I don’t think “jump” and “instinct” correlate like you’re saying. Even butcher fielders usually get their glove on a hard hit ball at them.

[max silver]

No it's not definitely a playoff team, the competition will be fierce and one or two very good teams are not going to make it this year. And while I fully understand that only one team wins the world series, the goal is to try to put together a roster capable of world series. One that gives you the best odds possible, then whatever happens happens. Our pitching staff as currently constructed does not give us great odds unless the competition continues to have injuries. And yes anything less than a world series ultimately is a failure because this is supposed to be our championship window so the point is to win championships. If that's not the point then why even bother trying? You don't have parades for winning the American League.

 

You could never guarantee victory of course, all you can ask of the front office is to put the team in the best position to win. Given the time that they've had, the money that they've spent, the minor league capital they have used, I think they should have built something better. Something that gives us better odds.

 

Right now Fangraphs gives the Jays MLB's 4th highest odds to win the world series. The one hole I see on this team is a right handed slugging outfielder/DH type, that's a pretty damn solid team in my view.

[John_Havok]

Yeah but SECOND PERCENTILE jumps?

 

I've never played a single organized sport and I bet I could react better to flyballs. f***, Jordumb Walker has hit enough flyballs in his career to know how the ball moves.

 

Just checking the savant page for what they have for jumps. It's pretty cool how they break it down to reaction, burst and route. He scores slightly above average in route, well below average in reaction and burst.

 

It's also pretty small margins they are dealing with overall. The difference in "jump" from Kiermaier to Walker is about 7 feet in the first 3 seconds.

[John_Havok]

Yimi Garcia believes he was tipping pitches earlier in the season, made a change and now seems to be getting better results.

 

from sportsnet..

 

Over the last four weeks Yimi Garcia has quietly re-established himself as a reliable and dominant leverage reliever for the Toronto Blue Jays, not allowing a run in his past 11 appearances, giving up just six hits and a walk with 10 strikeouts during that span.

 

Contrast that against his uncharacteristic start to the year, when he took damage in 12 of his first 31 outings en route to a 5.83 earned-run average and .846 OPS against, with the chatter about him focused on pitch location and selection as potential issues.

 

The difference between then and now?

 

“Well, to be honest with you, I think it was more like maybe I was tipping something than command because most of the time I was making very, very good pitches and they still were making good contact,” Garcia said through interpreter Hector Lebron. “I think it was more like tipping than command.”

 

While Garcia didn’t want to get into details, he admitted that “we made some changes on the glove position. Sometimes I had it one way, sometimes for some pitches another way. So we made some changes.”

[Jimcanuck]

Yimi Garcia believes he was tipping pitches earlier in the season, made a change and now seems to be getting better results.

 

from sportsnet..

 

Over the last four weeks Yimi Garcia has quietly re-established himself as a reliable and dominant leverage reliever for the Toronto Blue Jays, not allowing a run in his past 11 appearances, giving up just six hits and a walk with 10 strikeouts during that span.

 

Contrast that against his uncharacteristic start to the year, when he took damage in 12 of his first 31 outings en route to a 5.83 earned-run average and .846 OPS against, with the chatter about him focused on pitch location and selection as potential issues.

 

The difference between then and now?

 

“Well, to be honest with you, I think it was more like maybe I was tipping something than command because most of the time I was making very, very good pitches and they still were making good contact,” Garcia said through interpreter Hector Lebron. “I think it was more like tipping than command.”

 

While Garcia didn’t want to get into details, he admitted that “we made some changes on the glove position. Sometimes I had it one way, sometimes for some pitches another way. So we made some changes.”

 

I'd like to hear something similar from Berrios regarding last year.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Yimi Garcia believes he was tipping pitches earlier in the season, made a change and now seems to be getting better results.

 

from sportsnet..

 

Over the last four weeks Yimi Garcia has quietly re-established himself as a reliable and dominant leverage reliever for the Toronto Blue Jays, not allowing a run in his past 11 appearances, giving up just six hits and a walk with 10 strikeouts during that span.

 

Contrast that against his uncharacteristic start to the year, when he took damage in 12 of his first 31 outings en route to a 5.83 earned-run average and .846 OPS against, with the chatter about him focused on pitch location and selection as potential issues.

 

The difference between then and now?

 

“Well, to be honest with you, I think it was more like maybe I was tipping something than command because most of the time I was making very, very good pitches and they still were making good contact,” Garcia said through interpreter Hector Lebron. “I think it was more like tipping than command.”

 

While Garcia didn’t want to get into details, he admitted that “we made some changes on the glove position. Sometimes I had it one way, sometimes for some pitches another way. So we made some changes.”

 

Yimi since May 30th:

 

IP - 15.0

K/9 - 9.6

BB/9 - 0.6

HR/9 - 0.6

ERA - 1.20

FIP - 2.42

xFIP - 2.83

 

Romano, Mayza, Garcia, Green, Swanson, Richards and Pearson is a real solid BP (once Green returns)

[Terminator]

[Masterbather]

Right now Fangraphs gives the Jays MLB's 4th highest odds to win the world series. The one hole I see on this team is a right handed slugging outfielder/DH type, that's a pretty damn solid team in my view.

 

I don't really care about fangraphs and their odds. And that's really the one hole you see? How about the fact that we have a number three who's currently our number two, then two of Bassit, Manoah and Kikuchi to round out the rotation. That's a f***ing terrifying proposition. Sure you could use an opener but now we're going to spread the bullpen thin. The options aren't good. Ryu is a wild card, we basically need him to return to his old self to save the season. That's where we are. We're completely vulnerable with our rotation. How are people not seeing this?

[BCZ]

Is Blue Jays Org run by mental challenged folk?

[tossingthiscoin]

Send Manoah down to AAA after tonight. He's not going to face Detroit 30 times a season.

[Captain_Obvious]

Send Manoah down to AAA after tonight. He's not going to face Detroit 30 times a season.

 

He was not good against Detroit. Got lucky. His pitches were still mostly junk.

[BCZ]

Manoah bad bod at such a young age prob explains all you need to know... performance decline = cliff

[Spanky99]

Right now Fangraphs gives the Jays MLB's 4th highest odds to win the world series. The one hole I see on this team is a right handed slugging outfielder/DH type, that's a pretty damn solid team in my view.

 

There's no point, mate... he does this every season.

[Spanky99]

This was pretty comical, and good on Walker for sticking up for his staff, that ump was horrendous...

 

 

#Umpshow

[Spanky99]

[BigCecil]

Varsho bunting his way to another 4.7 WAR season? Only 4.2 WAR to go.