General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

That’s the flaw in wRC+. Not sure if it’s ever been fixed. Like if a player hits better away from Coors than he does at home, why would you adjust his numbers down, if anything they’d go up, or something idk?

 

WRC+ is park adjusted so it's showing exactly what it should: Vlad has been borderline MVP worthy on the road and absolutely awful at home. More traditional statistics paint the same picture, such as .610 OPS at home vs .965 on the road.

[connorp]

WRC+ is park adjusted so it's showing exactly what it should: Vlad has been borderline MVP worthy on the road and absolutely awful at home. More traditional statistics paint the same picture, such as .610 OPS at home vs .965 on the road.

 

Well it used to be just taking players X numbers and then using the park factor of their home park to determine to scale it up or down.

 

So if RC was a hitters park, you would grade Vlads numbers down

[Spanky99]

That’s the flaw in wRC+. Not sure if it’s ever been fixed. Like if a player hits better away from Coors than he does at home, why would you adjust his numbers down, if anything they’d go up, or something idk?

 

lmao

 

[Spanky99]

Vlad was actually pretty damn good for the first six weeks of the season so the offseason "home run derby" you like to keep referencing seemed to have worked just fine to get him ready for the season. Vlad's numbers took an absolute nosedive for about 2 weeks or so where he was swinging at way too many pitches out of the strike zone and largely getting himself out at the plate. He's been showing signs of turning things around for about the last week so hopefully he can get back to being more productive.

 

The most puzzling thing for me about Vlad is the massive gulf between his home and away splits. He's rocking 168 WRC+ on the road vs a putrid 72 WRC+ at home. Based on the comments I've recently read on here the only possible conclusion I can come to is that Vlad is fat at home, while he's fully committed to fitness on the road. He needs to figure out a way to get into better shape while playing at home and it will be his numbers exploding instead of his waistline.

 

Mic Drop... lmao

[connorp]

lmao

 

 

As usual, most of you simple mided folk can’t understand the issue. You just follow whatever instruction someone gives you

[Spanky99]

The plan was awesome last game except for the use of Cimber.

 

-Richards as the opener for a maximum of one time through the lineup

-They don't have to go straight to Francis, if they have lefties in the lineup it's best to use Mayza early in the game because they won't pinch hit. But if they do then they'll just be screwing themselves later on when our right handed setup men come into the game.

-Then go to Francis

-Pearson could also do two innings in one of these games

 

But that's a ton of bullpen usage and they can't rely on Richards going 3 innings every time. They really need the starters to eat more innings if they keep planning on doing this or they are going to have to let Francis go 4-5 innings. Hopefully they start letting Francis do that as he gets stretched out more after coming back from injury. That was only his 4th or 5th appearance all year.

 

An opener, and follow with Francis seems pretty obvious to me, dude's been stretched out to 80 pitches after his last rehab game, that gives you 6 innings easily. He looks like he has pretty damn good stuff. I feel like I'm missing something?

[Olerud363]

As usual, most of you simple mided folk can’t understand the issue. You just follow whatever instruction someone gives you

 

Sorry if I am reading your comment wrong, but if a guy hit's .370 with 30 homers and 100 RBIS in road games and .200 with 10 homers in Coors Field home games his numbers are still adjusted down even if he hit better on the road.

 

So it is assumed he hit bad at Coors for reasons unknown (randomness, nervousness, too much home cooking) and hitting .200 with 10 homers at Coors is like hitting .170 with 7 homers under the same circumstances in a normal home park.

[Spanky99]

As usual, most of you simple mided folk can’t understand the issue. You just follow whatever instruction someone gives you

 

It's not our fault your takes are terrible... you'd lead the sheep straight into a wolves den.

 

Here... learn something for once. https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/wrc/

[Olerud363]

Sorry if I am reading your comment wrong, but if a guy hit's .370 with 30 homers and 100 RBIS in road games and .200 with 10 homers in Coors Field home games his numbers are still adjusted down even if he hit better on the road.

 

So it is assumed he hit bad at Coors for reasons unknown (randomness, nervousness, too much home cooking) and hitting .200 with 10 homers at Coors is like hitting .170 with 7 homers under the same circumstances in a normal home park.

 

Again, maybe I'm totally mis-understanding the debate, but hypothetically in 80 road games in neutral parks there are 4 runs a game scored on average and some guy contributes like 100 runs offensively

 

Then in Coors games there are 6 runs a game scored, and the same guy only contributes 50 runs, those 50 runs are still down graded to 34 or something, so the road numbers are the same, and the home numbers are downgraded no matter how good or bad because each run is less of a percentage-wise contribution.

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Mic Drop... lmao

 

Is it such a mic drop though? It’s great the Vlad hits like he did in 2021 on the road but at the end of the day his career average wRC+ sans his outlier 2021 is 120. Does slim Vlad have a better career? We will never know. But as of now he’s fat and underperforming so his fitness will always be in question until he can repeat 2021.

[connorp]

Sorry if I am reading your comment wrong, but if a guy hit's .370 with 30 homers and 100 RBIS in road games and .200 with 10 homers in Coors Field home games his numbers are still adjusted down even if he hit better on the road.

 

So it is assumed he hit bad at Coors for reasons unknown (randomness, nervousness, too much home cooking) and hitting .200 with 10 homers at Coors is like hitting .170 with 7 homers under the same circumstances in a normal home park.

 

It’s, or was, pretty basic logic. You got a .900 OPS guy, his home field is Coors, you would adjust down his numbers as not being a true talent .900 OPS bat. But if he hit .750 at Coors and 1.000 on the road, why would you assume that?

[Spanky99]

Is it such a mic drop though? It’s great the Vlad hits like he did in 2021 on the road but at the end of the day his career average wRC+ sans his outlier 2021 is 120. Does slim Vlad have a better career? We will never know. But as of now he’s fat and underperforming so his fitness will always be in question until he can repeat 2021.

 

Yes, it was a mic drop in context of Brownie's comment. Underperforming for what we hoped him to be, sure, but there's still plenty of time?

[connorp]

It's not our fault your takes are terrible... you'd lead the sheep straight into a wolves den.

 

Here... learn something for once. https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/wrc/

 

I’m not reading. I added the disclaimer it could’ve changed. Everything I know is 5 years ago. I have very little new knowledge. That covers life in general. How many sexual orientations are there?

[Spanky99]

I’m not reading. I added the disclaimer it could’ve changed. Everything I know is 5 years ago. I have very little new knowledge. That covers life in general. How many sexual orientations are there?

 

It never changed, you dolt. And now what the f*** are you on about, weirdo?

[connorp]

It never changed, you dolt. And now what the f*** are you on about, weirdo?

 

Bro, it used to be like that. You adjust for the league etc and just the park factor of where they play their home games. They didn’t consider what the actual splits were

[Spanky99]

Bro, it used to be like that. You adjust for the league etc and just the park factor of where they play their home games. They didn’t consider what the actual splits were

 

No, wRC+ has never changed. You're thinking of RC, wRC... I Said Good Day!

[Stangstag]

Vlad was actually pretty damn good for the first six weeks of the season so the offseason "home run derby" you like to keep referencing seemed to have worked just fine to get him ready for the season. Vlad's numbers took an absolute nosedive for about 2 weeks or so where he was swinging at way too many pitches out of the strike zone and largely getting himself out at the plate. He's been showing signs of turning things around for about the last week so hopefully he can get back to being more productive.

 

The most puzzling thing for me about Vlad is the massive gulf between his home and away splits. He's rocking 168 WRC+ on the road vs a putrid 72 WRC+ at home. Based on the comments I've recently read on here the only possible conclusion I can come to is that Vlad is fat at home, while he's fully committed to fitness on the road. He needs to figure out a way to get into better shape while playing at home and it will be his numbers exploding instead of his waistline.

 

Isn’t that exactly what happened in 2022 also?

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Isn’t that exactly what happened in 2022 also?

 

Yup. Hit 3 home runs in one game against the yanks and it was all downhill from there.

[connorp]

No, wRC+ has never changed. You're thinking of RC... I Said Good Day!

 

After that we have the park adjustment, which we arrive at using the additive method. Here we are essentially calculating how many runs per plate appearance we should add or subtract from a player’s total based on their home environment. To do so, we take MLB average R/PA and subtract out the MLB average R/PA times the park factor. To properly use the park factor, you should take the number listed on our park factor page and divide it by 100. So a 98 park factor should be used as 0.98 in this equation.

[connorp]

If you people are still too dumb to understand, I can’t help. I’m sorry

[glory]

Did they explain why they optioned Francis? My guess is they'll try the same thing next time except with Mitch f'n White following Richards, which seems like a really bad idea in Texas, but whatever. Maybe Atkins thought that he finally might have caught lightning in a bottle with a SP prospect out of no where and decided to sabotage it before seeing if it would succeed.

[Spanky99]

Yup. Hit 3 home runs in one game against the yanks and it was all downhill from there.

 

Solid take, post less.

[bluejaysinternNo5]

Solid take, post less.

 

I’m simply confirming mr stangs question sorry spankster

[Spanky99]

If you people are still too dumb to understand, I can’t help. I’m sorry

 

It's all adjusted in that algorithm you idiot, read more. That's how it works, lmao.

[connorp]

It's all adjusted in that algorithm you idiot, read more. That's how it works, lmao.

 

And how do you conclude that, Einstein. In the park factor formula I just presented to you, there’s nothing to suggest I’m not correct.

[Spanky99]

That’s the flaw in wRC+. Not sure if it’s ever been fixed. Like if a player hits better away from Coors than he does at home, why would you adjust his numbers down, if anything they’d go up, or something idk?

 

And how do you conclude that, Einstein. In the park factor formula I just presented to you, there’s nothing to suggest I’m not correct.

 

That's what you said ^^^^ Nothing about RC and wRC... wRC+ is adjusted to park factors, nothing has changed, amigo. Presented you... you copy pasted from the link I provided, read more... c-poop.

[connorp]

That's what you said ^^^^ Nothing about RC and wRC... wRC+ is adjusted to park factors, nothing has changed, amigo.

 

I’m done arguing with you. I’m going to play my old school JRPG on my Switch

[wilko]

So what are we going to do for the next bullpen game?

 

I guess use the same plan as last time with Richards but we won't have Francis. So I guess Hatch or White are going to have to go multiple innings?

 

Once Francis is back it would seem like this plan could work ok moving forward but one of them is going to have to be able to pitch the other days or else Francis is going to have to keep being optioned for a fresh arm.

 

Stretch Richards out to a starter plz.

[Terminator]

Looks like Spanky woke up on the wrong side of the bed this afternoon lol

[Terminator]

Stretch Richards out to a starter plz.

 

Not sure how good he'd be with only 2 pitches.