General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[L54]

Comparing the old Baltimore regimes to the current one makes no sense

 

Yes they sucked for a very long time. Then they hired smart guys and got good

 

Said it before and I’ll say it again Baltimore will be a pain in the ass for a long time

[L54]

It’s comical that you’ll point out Jays aren’t well equipped with the pipeline and everyone agrees. I bring it up and get all sorts of pushback lol

 

I hope all these guys at least add some fruity flavors when they put your balls in their mouth

 

Lol it is true

 

Not Laika’s fault but funny nonetheless

[L54]

Orioles starting pitching is absolute dog s***. If they were smart they would use some of that prospect capital to address that.

 

Dylan Cease should be at the top of their list.

 

100%. Maybe Giolito

 

They have so many infield prospects they can’t possibly keep them all. They have currency to spend and can match almost any offer

[BigCecil]

That's the only advantage Toronto has and it's short term.

 

Baltimore chose not to invest in the big club this year so their MLB talent didn't project as well as Toronto's for 2023.

 

If/when Baltimore doubles that payroll... yikes.

 

I’m hoping they find and spend a bunch on a Chris Davis V 2.0

[WryNGinger]

Varsho with a 1.086 OPS the last 7 games. Hopefully that swing change he made means he stays productive. Nice to see him getting results at the plate. Easy player to cheer for.

[Jonn]

[BigCecil]

How can they fix this?

 

i'm full doomer on the Jays in the next year or two.

 

When you look at what AA has built in ATL, the Rays and O's. Even how BoSox might be coming back etc you can build a comparative doomer or glass half full case.

 

We have traded a lot of prospects and control like Morenos, spent a fortune on FAs. We don't have Bo, Vlad or Chappy long term. The pipeline cupboard is concerning.

 

I hope we actually have a sustainable winner. Time will tell.

[L54]

A lot can change quite quickly. Like if Tiedemann becomes Logan Allen and Barger becomes Brian Anderson your outlook on the next 2-3 years is much better. I have hope that the player development isn’t a lost cause because of the investments they’ve made in it.

 

I do think this is the best team assembled with Bo and Vlad though. Going to be tough to replace both Chapman and Merrifield.

 

One thought I had is what happens to the rotation if Tiedemann is in it to start 2024? Too many guys as currently stands.

 

Gausman - ace

Manoah - trade?

Berrios - probably lowest trade value

Bassitt- not going anywhere

Kikuchi - is a good price @ 12M

[Jonn]

Blue Jays gotta make sure Bo never wears another uniform as soon as possible. They can take more time with Vladdy because he’s already expressed a desire to stay forever. And he also plays 1B which limits his value.

[Orgfiller]

A lot can change quite quickly. Like if Tiedemann becomes Logan Allen and Barger becomes Brian Anderson your outlook on the next 2-3 years is much better. I have hope that the player development isn’t a lost cause because of the investments they’ve made in it.

 

I do think this is the best team assembled with Bo and Vlad though. Going to be tough to replace both Chapman and Merrifield.

 

One thought I had is what happens to the rotation if Tiedemann is in it to start 2024? Too many guys as currently stands.

 

Gausman - ace

Manoah - trade?

Berrios - probably lowest trade value

Bassitt- not going anywhere

Kikuchi - is a good price @ 12M

 

Pitching tends to find a way to make these sorts of conundrums resolve themselves. One of those guys get injured (ideally not Gausman) and there’s a wide open hole in the rotation for Tiedemann to fill in.

[John_Havok]

Pitching tends to find a way to make these sorts of conundrums resolve themselves. One of those guys get injured (ideally not Gausman) and there’s a wide open hole in the rotation for Tiedemann to fill in.

 

Kikuchi is a guy you’d probably feel like trading if needed to open a spot, but there’s no real need to do that. There’s always an injury that will open a spot on its own if Tiedemann proves he ready

[glory]

Blue Jays gotta make sure Bo never wears another uniform as soon as possible. They can take more time with Vladdy because he’s already expressed a desire to stay forever. And he also plays 1B which limits his value.

 

Yeah I think it's clear now that if the Jays want any chance at sustainable contention beyond 2025 they are going to have to bite the bullet and sign both Vlad and Bo. That's going to be a $600-700m investment for two players, and likely some dead money in the back end for both, but I really don't see any other option. The farm system on the position player side is kind of ass right now, and I don't see that changing dramatically by 2025 to the point where they could replace either of those two internally.

[G-Snarls]

Yeah I think it's clear now that if the Jays want any chance at sustainable contention beyond 2025 they are going to have to bite the bullet and sign both Vlad and Bo. That's going to be a $600-700m investment for two players, and likely some dead money in the back end for both, but I really don't see any other option. The farm system on the position player side is kind of ass right now, and I don't see that changing dramatically by 2025 to the point where they could replace either of those two internally.

 

The alternative is to trade them both when they have 1.5-2 years of control left for a haul. Tampa would do exactly this of course but I don't think this FO would. And the Jays can afford to carry a few big contracts.

 

Letting each walk for a second round draft pick after declining a QO is the only completely unacceptable option.

 

Personally I'm 100% in favour of extending both. Both could be perennial top 10-15 hitters for another decade. Heart and soul of the franchise. Those are rare.

[bones10]

What do we think about of Pearson so far in his 5.1 innings of work.

 

Command is definitely lacking, and his off speed isn’t getting much usage. But holy f*** his fastball looks explosive, lots of swing and miss even outside of the zone with it. Definitely want to see more of him, ahead of Garcia at this point for me.

[G-Snarls]

What do we think about of Pearson so far in his 5.1 innings of work.

 

Command is definitely lacking, and his off speed isn’t getting much usage. But holy f*** his fastball looks explosive, lots of swing and miss even outside of the zone with it. Definitely want to see more of him, ahead of Garcia at this point for me.

 

I like what I see

 

He's getting people out

 

Some misses. And some pitches get too much plate. But he should stay up.

[BigCecil]

What do we think about of Pearson so far in his 5.1 innings of work.

 

Command is definitely lacking, and his off speed isn’t getting much usage. But holy f*** his fastball looks explosive, lots of swing and miss even outside of the zone with it. Definitely want to see more of him, ahead of Garcia at this point for me.

 

I like it. Not a finished product with command. Not a lot of movement on the FB like Merryweather, but up top of the zone or just above it’s a weapon. He will need that breaking ball.

[BigCecil]

The alternative is to trade them both when they have 1.5-2 years of control left for a haul. Tampa would do exactly this of course but I don't think this FO would. And the Jays can afford to carry a few big contracts.

 

Letting each walk for a second round draft pick after declining a QO is the only completely unacceptable option.

 

Personally I'm 100% in favour of extending both. Both could be perennial top 10-15 hitters for another decade. Heart and soul of the franchise. Those are rare.

 

They are but I’ll be surprised if we sign even one of them. Bo is pretty hard to value given his limited D abilities for SS. I could see a Jano extension. I don’t see us keeping Chappy.

[Laika]

What do we think about of Pearson so far in his 5.1 innings of work.

 

Command is definitely lacking, and his off speed isn’t getting much usage. But holy f*** his fastball looks explosive, lots of swing and miss even outside of the zone with it. Definitely want to see more of him, ahead of Garcia at this point for me.

 

Hard to believe he has zero walks. Seems like he has been all over the place.

 

I think it's very hard for an MLB RP to be very good in 2023 while throwing 75% fastballs. I'd love to see the slider show up as a usable/effective pitch.

[max silver]

They are but I’ll be surprised if we sign even one of them. Bo is pretty hard to value given his limited D abilities for SS. I could see a Jano extension. I don’t see us keeping Chappy.

 

I think Bo has improved tremendously defensively up to this point. He'll likely never be an above average defender but he's been very steady for the most part this season and making the plays he's supposed to.

[max silver]

I like what I see

 

He's getting people out

 

Some misses. And some pitches get too much plate. But he should stay up.

 

I'd like to see Nate receive a little more regular work. He's barely been used since his callup as he's only appeared in 4 games in the roughly two weeks since he's been called up. It would have to be a bit difficult to show pinpoint command with such infrequent work.

[bones10]

Hard to believe he has zero walks. Seems like he has been all over the place.

 

I think it's very hard for an MLB RP to be very good in 2023 while throwing 75% fastballs. I'd love to see the slider show up as a usable/effective pitch.

 

What was his minor usage this year? They’re swinging outside of the zone on his fastball in walking counts just from memory.

[L54]

Pitching tends to find a way to make these sorts of conundrums resolve themselves. One of those guys get injured (ideally not Gausman) and there’s a wide open hole in the rotation for Tiedemann to fill in.

 

I agree but in the scenario where Tiedemann makes 5 starts this year plus the playoffs and looks like a rotation piece are they going to start him in AAA or the BP in 2024 and wait for an injury? I kinda doubt it. Then there’s Mitch White too

[L54]

They are but I’ll be surprised if we sign even one of them. Bo is pretty hard to value given his limited D abilities for SS. I could see a Jano extension. I don’t see us keeping Chappy.

 

Come on BC don’t be SO pessimistic. They will almost certainly sign one of them. Clearly there is a willingness to spend

 

Im with everyone else in that you need to sign both or else bring someone in via FA. One or the other isn’t going to keep the lineup afloat

[Solaxys]

[Olerud363]

Come on BC donÂ’t be SO pessimistic. They will almost certainly sign one of them. Clearly there is a willingness to spend

 

Im with everyone else in that you need to sign both or else bring someone in via FA. One or the other isnÂ’t going to keep the lineup afloat

 

One thing this front office seems to do is replace a free agent with a similar player in terms of age and cost. Everyone was freaking at the end of 2021 that the Jays were "losing" 12 WAR. However they replaced Semien and Ray, with Chapman and Gausman, and kept the projections going forward exactly the same. Also replaced Matz with Kikuchi, Stripling with Bassitt.

 

So the question is more if they have 700 million for 2 mega-contracts will they find a good way to spend it? Whether it is on Bo and Guerrero, 2 other players, or a different use of that money?

[BigCecil]

Come on BC don’t be SO pessimistic. They will almost certainly sign one of them. Clearly there is a willingness to spend

 

Im with everyone else in that you need to sign both or else bring someone in via FA. One or the other isn’t going to keep the lineup afloat

 

I'm not pessimistic at all bud. Its just business. I do agree they both possess some rare talents.

 

They value themselves highly and the only way they don't sell to the highest bidder in FA, is a large overpay, which I wouldn't want anyway. Just because some teams are paying that kind of money to players like Baez and Xander, doesn't mean we need to or should go down that path. If we are talking something Riley ish it makes more sense. But again...they have to agree and I think they will bet someone will pay them more.

 

If the Rays can find that kind of production from a Yandy Diaz at 3/24 - then we have to do a better job.

 

I could care less what any player in any sport says...only what they do. "I love TOR and want to play here forever" ya da ya da. Its virtually meaningless.

 

Bo may have improved his D this season, emphasis on its May, but he is still bottom third.

[L54]

I guess the bottom line is they aren’t going to be competitive without at least a couple cost controlled above average regulars. Whether they spend on Vlad/Bo whoever.

 

There are hardly any exciting hitters in the farm system. Barger can hopefully become something, but the next most exciting guy might be Bonilla who is 17. Maybe Horowitz is Eric Hosmer who can play corner outfield and first.

[John_Havok]

Don’t look now but Brandon Belt is up to a 118 wRC+ against RHP

[John_Havok]

Via The Score:

 

Toronto Blue Jays third baseman Matt Chapman is interested in staying with the team on a long-term deal.

 

"Of course," Chapman said when asked if he's open to an extension, according to Sports Illustrated's Mitch Bannon.

 

The pending free agent added there's mutual interest to get a deal done but that a new contract isn't his priority at the moment.

 

"I know that both parties want to make something happen," Chapman said. "But right now, I'm focused on baseball and focused on winning. And if they want to talk, it's gotta be with Scott (Boras)."

 

Boras, Chapman's agent, has a reputation for ensuring his clients test the open market. He was responsible for landing four different pacts worth at least $150 million last offseason.

 

"I trust that (Boras') process works, and he knows what he's doing," the 30-year-old said. "I think it's something that we'll look back at after the end of this season, and then we'll really start to sit down."

 

Chapman, a three-time Gold Glover, is off to a sensational start to the 2023 campaign, slashing .352/.436/.615 with five homers and an MLB-leading 17 doubles entering Sunday's action. He could be the top third baseman available in free agency after the Padres extended Manny Machado in February.

[Orgfiller]

Don’t look now but Brandon Belt is up to a 118 wRC+ against RHP

 

The one constant this year for Belt is he takes excellent at bats. Takes close pitches for balls (although gets the Biggio treatment on a few of these), fouls off tough ones in the zone to keep the AB going and tiring the pitcher out, and will generally swing at the good pitches. The only problem, which is still the wildcard, is if his bat speed/timing can make a comeback. He’s at 90th percentile barrel rate, 71st percentile average EV and 77th percentile chase rate.

 

The remains of a good hitter are there, but can he start making consistent contact going forward? If his K rate was 30-35% he would still be a productive hitter, if it was mid-high 20s then he might be the guy the Jays thought they were getting in signing him.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Orgfiller