General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[G-Snarls]

Agree 100% with everything you said.

 

I don't want to hear guys like Mike Wilner after a loss or blowing a game using the excuse, "it's still early." We saw in the AL East that doesn't apply and even more this season. Every game this month is as important as a game in September.

 

Also just one example. We don't play the Yankees in June July or August

 

So when you do play them the games matter a lot. You can't gain ground head to head very often.

[Laika]

Hurts to watch the Os and Mariners fill their pen adequately with reclamation after reclamation.

 

What do you mean

I love having nothing but vet middle relievers with no options

So the pen is average at best yet the team also somehow has no room for a healthy Nate Pearson

[Stangstag]

What do you mean

I love having nothing but vet middle relievers with no options

So the pen is average at best yet the team also somehow has no room for a healthy Nate Pearson

 

Nate Pearson rotting in AAA while the MLB pen blows games is mind-boggling. Dude is gonna end up injured and never even get a chance to pitch for the major league team.

[MikeM3]

What do you mean

I love having nothing but vet middle relievers with no options

So the pen is average at best yet the team also somehow has no room for a healthy Nate Pearson

 

The no options part is the most back breaking.

[Olerud363]

I don't know how projections have biggio doing 103 wRC+.... He's not even a good bench warmer and hasn't even broke 100 since 2020.

 

He had a 97 wRC+ last year and 115-120 his first two years. Projection simply expects him to improve a bit on last year but not get back to 2019/20. Pretty reasonable.

[Olerud363]

Bc AI isn’t quite there yet. They have his Bb% improving from the last 2 years, as his hitting has deteriorated and they’re unable to apply the logic that if anything, the bb% will go down

 

The projection is based on the entire history of major league baseball and every player that has ever looked anything like Cavan Biggio.

 

So Lee Mazzili, Matt Carpenter, Rance Muliniks and countless others who hit .190 but still drew walks are input into the computer, and it says "hey Cavan can hit .200 with walks too".

 

That's why it is better then humans because you guys all use bad logic, you think major league pitchers will just throw it right down the middle to Cavan, because he is useless, but that isn't what really happens. Same bad logic as the 'protection theory'.

 

Throwing it right down the middle makes every hitter better, not matter what their talent level. The protection theory is bad, because throwing it down the middle to Vlad Guerrero makes him a .340 .400 hitter, and if the idea is to keep him off base, because he has a great protector behind him it's better to use the pitching pattern that makes him a .280 .350 on base guy.

 

Same with sucky Cavan Biggio. If they throw it down the middle all time he still might hit .230 with a .300 on base percentage and .400 slugging, but if they still nibble he might hit .180 with a few more walks but the same on base and less power.

 

So even hitting .180 noodels that draw walks, still often draw walks.

[Olerud363]

The projection is based on the entire history of major league baseball and every player that has ever looked anything like Cavan Biggio.

 

So Lee Mazzili, Matt Carpenter, Rance Muliniks and countless others who hit .190 but still drew walks are input into the computer, and it says "hey Cavan can hit .200 with walks too".

 

That's why it is better then humans because you guys all use bad logic, you think major league pitchers will just throw it right down the middle to Cavan, because he is useless, but that isn't what really happens. Same bad logic as the 'protection theory'.

 

Throwing it right down the middle makes every hitter better, not matter what their talent level. The protection theory is bad, because throwing it down the middle to Vlad Guerrero makes him a .340 .400 hitter, and if the idea is to keep him off base, because he has a great protector behind him it's better to use the pitching pattern that makes him a .280 .350 on base guy.

 

Same with sucky Cavan Biggio. If they throw it down the middle all time he still might hit .230 with a .300 on base percentage and .400 slugging, but if they still nibble he might hit .180 with a few more walks but the same on base and less power.

 

So even hitting .180 noodels that draw walks, still often draw walks.

 

My explanation above is a bit dumb. Computers don't think like we do. Basically what it does is try to predict the next number from the previous. If you give it 1,1,1 it will predict 1. If you give it 1,2,3 it will predict 4.

 

So it just uses the entire history of baseball statistics to predict Cavan Biggio going forward, so there is no debate that guys that hit like Cavan Biggio has recently on average rebound a bit.

 

What could be debated is maybe there are inputs the computer doesn't know. Take all the guys who went into mid career slumps, and maybe some of them were still hitting the ball hard, or had a smile on their face or something, and those guys rebounded but the ones with sad faces hitting max EV of only 90 didn't... and the computer doesn't know those extra factors but the geniuses on this board do.

[glory]

What do you mean

I love having nothing but vet middle relievers with no options

So the pen is average at best yet the team also somehow has no room for a healthy Nate Pearson

 

Bass, Cimber, and Richards being in the big league bullpen while a healthy Pearson is wasting valuable innings on his arm in AAA is infuriating. Although I guess "a healthy Nate Pearson" with John Schneider's bullpen usage is probably not a realistic scenario, so Nate's arm might be better off in AAA for now.

[Grant77]

Bass, Cimber, and Richards being in the big league bullpen while a healthy Pearson is wasting valuable innings on his arm in AAA is infuriating. Although I guess "a healthy Nate Pearson" with John Schneider's bullpen usage is probably not a realistic scenario, so Nate's arm might be better off in AAA for now.

 

I'd like to see more of Trevor Richards. Everybody wants more strikeouts and he is getting them at an elite rate. If the BABIP drops a bit, he could be really useful.

 

Cimber is useful in certain situations and his ability to pitch every day is valuable in a John Schneider bullpen.

 

Bass is the pitcher I'm most concerned about. He seems to have lost a bit of stuff and he's not very useful right now.

[Pendleton]

I'd like to see more of Trevor Richards. Everybody wants more strikeouts and he is getting them at an elite rate. If the BABIP drops a bit, he could be really useful.

 

Cimber is useful in certain situations and his ability to pitch every day is valuable in a John Schneider bullpen.

 

Bass is the pitcher I'm most concerned about. He seems to have lost a bit of stuff and he's not very useful right now.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the biggest issue with Richards is consistency during each outing. He can look really good working a hitter over one AB and then struggle to locate either of his pitches to the next guy.

 

That changeup can be a legit weapon though

[Grant77]

Maybe it's just me, but I find the biggest issue with Richards is consistency during each outing. He can look really good working a hitter over one AB and then struggle to locate either of his pitches to the next guy.

 

That changeup can be a legit weapon though

 

I'm with you on that. It drives me nuts when he strikes a guy out and then walks the #9 hitter on 4 pitches right after. I think the stuff plays though. This is a good situation from a roster perspective. Surely they expected an injury to open a spot for Pearson by this point. Maybe it's time for a phantom IL stint for someone.

[Spanky99]

My explanation above is a bit dumb. Computers don't think like we do. Basically what it does is try to predict the next number from the previous. If you give it 1,1,1 it will predict 1. If you give it 1,2,3 it will predict 4.

 

So it just uses the entire history of baseball statistics to predict Cavan Biggio going forward, so there is no debate that guys that hit like Cavan Biggio has recently on average rebound a bit.

 

What could be debated is maybe there are inputs the computer doesn't know. Take all the guys who went into mid career slumps, and maybe some of them were still hitting the ball hard, or had a smile on their face or something, and those guys rebounded but the ones with sad faces hitting max EV of only 90 didn't... and the computer doesn't know those extra factors but the geniuses on this board do.

 

lol... WTF?

[THANOS]

I'm with you on that. It drives me nuts when he strikes a guy out and then walks the #9 hitter on 4 pitches right after. I think the stuff plays though. This is a good situation from a roster perspective. Surely they expected an injury to open a spot for Pearson by this point. Maybe it's time for a phantom IL stint for someone.

 

Send down Cimber maybe? He has options, has struggled, and Pop is a similar side armer only is better version with increased velo.

[max silver]

Send down Cimber maybe? He has options, has struggled, and Pop is a similar side armer only is better version with increased velo.

 

Apparently Cimber has enough service time that he can't be sent down without agreeing to it.

[Jonn]

So in reality the only way we can change our pen is optioning Pop or DFAing someone. Pearson can’t be in AAA much longer.

[L54]

So in reality the only way we can change our pen is optioning Pop or DFAing someone. Pearson can’t be in AAA much longer.

 

Basically. Or a phantom IL stint which is probably what they’re waiting for. But reality is they’re going to have to make a decision at some point regarding Pearson and then someone else is gone once Green is healthy.

 

Punt Cimber out the door he looks awful projects awful and his stat cast page is blue

[THANOS]

Basically. Or a phantom IL stint which is probably what they’re waiting for. But reality is they’re going to have to make a decision at some point regarding Pearson and then someone else is gone once Green is healthy.

 

Punt Cimber out the door he looks awful projects awful and his stat cast page is blue

 

Cimber for now makes sense. Pop has the same arm angle, only throws mid-upper 90s while doing it, and the slider can actually get whiffs.

 

There's no need for Cimber anymore.

 

Call-up Pearson, and when Green is ready, boot whichever of Bass, Mayza or Richards is performing the worse. If either of those 3 are too horrendous before he's ready, see if Jay Jackson, Junior Fernandez or Hayden Juenger are ready for an opportunity.

[Spanky99]

Cimber can be optioned, no need to get rid of him. That's just bad asset management, man.

[max silver]

Basically. Or a phantom IL stint which is probably what they’re waiting for. But reality is they’re going to have to make a decision at some point regarding Pearson and then someone else is gone once Green is healthy.

 

Punt Cimber out the door he looks awful projects awful and his stat cast page is blue

 

I recall it was mentioned that Cimber made some tweaks to his mound positioning in the offseason in hopes of improving his fortunes. This seems like fixing something that wasn't broken though as he was a pretty decent reliever who could occasionally pick up leverage innings if required. His fastball and slider velocity are both down several ticks and his command has been pretty poor as well leading to a lot of very hittable pitches.

[Spanky99]

Apparently Cimber has enough service time that he can't be sent down without agreeing to it.

 

Where'd you hear or read that? He doesn't have 5 years yet.

[max silver]

Where'd you hear or read that? He doesn't have 5 years yet.

 

I thought I heard something mentioned on one of the recent broadcasts, but I could certainly be mistaken.

[L54]

Apparently Cimber has enough service time that he can't be sent down without agreeing to it.

 

Cimber can be optioned, no need to get rid of him. That's just bad asset management, man.

 

Well which is it?

[L54]

I recall it was mentioned that Cimber made some tweaks to his mound positioning in the offseason in hopes of improving his fortunes. This seems like fixing something that wasn't broken though as he was a pretty decent reliever who could occasionally pick up leverage innings if required. His fastball and slider velocity are both down several ticks and his command has been pretty poor as well leading to a lot of very hittable pitches.

 

Well those tweaks haven’t paid off haha. His statcast page looks like an ice bath

[Spanky99]

Well which is it?

 

He can be optioned.

[Spanky99]

I thought I heard something mentioned on one of the recent broadcasts, but I could certainly be mistaken.

 

That was Buck Martinez being 100% wrong.

[Jonn]

Cimber hasn’t pitched in the minors since 2017. Are we sure he’s optionable lol

[Eat My Shatkins]

Someone will need to go down when White is ready to come back too. I'm surprised he's still out actually. Thought it was something minor with him.

[Jonn]

Someone will need to go down when White is ready to come back too. I'm surprised he's still out actually. Thought it was something minor with him.

 

Most of us are trying to pretend Mitch White doesn’t exist

[Spanky99]

Cimber hasn’t pitched in the minors since 2017. Are we sure he’s optionable lol

 

Yes, he has 4 years and 158 days of service time.

[The_DH]

Most of us are trying to pretend Mitch White doesn’t exist

 

Rest can only do so much. I'm just waiting to hear the "S" word.