General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Captain_Obvious]

Francis throwing 95 and 96? Along with his strong showing in winter leagues, he has become a lot more interesting.

[Spanky99]

I hope they all flop hard

 

lol... also Jays Journal are hacks.

[Brownie19]

Still don't get the whole Gage thing

 

I suspect there's a backstory that hasn't (and may not) come out yet.

[Laika]

The backstory is that Matt Gage probably sucks

 

he's 30.

 

Toronto was his 4th organization and he was in the Mexican league in 2019.

 

I guess sucks might be harsh - he might be a replacement level arm - but the only ones on the 40 man right now that you could really want to lose in his favour would be Hatch/Thompson. And I can see why they are keeping Hatch/Thompson around... you need optionable SP depth even if it is bad.

[RobinThicc]

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/toronto-blue-jays-checking-in-on-old-friends-during-spring-training

 

Summary of how the former Jays are doing. Part of me is happy for them but another part of me will be upset if they have career years lol

 

Moreno for Varsho probably ends up being a flop for the Jays

[Carlos Danger]

Moreno for Varsho probably ends up being a flop for the Jays

 

Waaaaaay to fnnn early.

 

 

Also, I remember trading Jeff Kent for David Cone. Cone pitched a few months and in the playoffs. Then Cone left at the end of the season for FA. Kent was a multiple time All-Starr and should have been a HoF IMO.

 

However, we won a damm WS with Cone. Parade memories and trophies last forever.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Carlos Danger

[The_DH]

Waaaaaay to fnnn early.

 

 

Also, I remember trading Jeff Kent for David Cone. Cone pitched a few months and in the playoffs. Then Cone left at the end if the season for FA. Kent was a multiple time All-Starr and should have been a HoF IMO.

 

However, we won a damm WS with Cone. Parade memories and trophies last forever.

 

WS pretty much trumps everything. I remember the trade at the time too and thinking "oh no". But WS = OH YEAH.

[L54]

Doubt the Jays regret Moreno for Varsho. Moreno might max out as like a 4 WAR player as he approaches free agency but to me he looks like a high floor lower ceiling kind of guy. Varsho is a 4 WAR player right now.

[Stangstag]

Doubt the Jays regret Moreno for Varsho. Moreno might max out as like a 4 WAR player as he approaches free agency but to me he looks like a high floor lower ceiling kind of guy. Varsho is a 4 WAR player right now.

 

Yeah this is one of those trades that seems fair for both sides and makes sense for both teams.

 

Arizona is deep in the OF, Jays are deep at catcher. They’ll likely provide similar value over their remaining years of control. We sacrifice 2 years of control on a young prospect in order to strengthen a position of need (OF and LHH).

[The_DH]

Yeah this is one of those trades that seems fair for both sides and makes sense for both teams.

 

Arizona is deep in the OF, Jays are deep at catcher. They’ll likely provide similar value over their remaining years of control. We sacrifice 2 years of control on a young prospect in order to strengthen a position of need (OF and LHH).

 

If the intention is to use him in LF going forward then I think we aren't maximizing his value.

[Brownie19]

If the intention is to use him in LF going forward then I think we aren't maximizing his value.

 

I fully expect Varsho is going to play a lot of CF over the next 3-4 years. KK is injury prone and a short term fix, Springer is aging and should stay in RF and we don't have anyone else ready to take the reigns in CF long term.

[The_DH]

I fully expect Varsho is going to play a lot of CF over the next 3-4 years. KK is injury prone and a short term fix, Springer is aging and should stay in RF and we don't have anyone else ready to take the reigns in CF long term.

 

That's what I'm thinking. His value as a LF will not be the same as value at CF.

[glory]

Varsho will definitely be the starting CF in 2024-26. His playing time there in 2023 will depend on a bunch of factors (injuries, performance of KK, etc) but I suspect he will be playing all the OF positions in 2023. If they platoon KK, then Varsho likely plays CF against LHP. On the days Springer is at DH and KK is also in the lineup, then they likely move Varsho to RF. And so on.

 

As far as the trade, as long as Varsho is a 3-4 WAR OF that can cover CF, then I don't think the Jays are going to regret the deal even if Moreno turns into a star. Outfield up and down the organization was a weakness. They needed someone, especially at CF, long term. The fact that they got 4 years of that type of player was definitely worth the gamble, IMO. If Varsho has another gear in him offensively, then even better.

[Stangstag]

If the intention is to use him in LF going forward then I think we aren't maximizing his value.

 

He’d probably be the CF this year if we hadn’t signed KK first.

 

Probably have Varsho in CF next year and sign someone like Ian Happ or even Teoscar to play LF

[Daniel Labude]

Jays offered Manoah a contract extension in the offseason...wasn't close

[Spanky99]

Jays offered Manoah a contract extension in the offseason...wasn't close

 

Can you post a link at least, man?

[Jays24]

Jays offered Manoah a contract extension in the offseason...wasn't close

 

Everyone looking to get that Acuna type extension but too bad Tatis ruined it all soon after lol

[Daniel Labude]

Can you post a link at least, man?

 

[Spanky99]

 

C'mon... LTBF, smarten up please..

[Jimcanuck]

DiManno column today alludes to what some of us suspected:

 

 

There’s a more serious mien on a team that is done with making whoopee and callow shenanigans in the dugout, committed to grown-up ball. By design or happenstance, the Barrio — a mostly Latino component of merrymakers and pranksters — has been broken up with Teoscar Hernández and Lourdes Gurriel Jr. shipped out of town, swapped for a more sober-minded crew.

 

“I think that everybody can look back at last year and realize that we probably needed a bit more professionalism and a little bit more maturity,” Bichette allows. “Not that we were immature, but that is part of the growth for us as players and young players.

 

“I’m not sure if that’s what they were intending with (Hernández and Gurriel); that’s not my job. Those are great players that we lost, but we replaced them with good players, too, guys who are here ready to compete and working as hard as they can, ready to do everything possible to win. So, sad as we are to see those guys go, some people that I’ve made great friendships with, I’m really excited to see what this group can accomplish.”

 

 

Somewhere, Teo is laughing about this.

[L54]

Been saying it for a long time and lots of guys mocked me for it but it was clear as day that the lack of maturity was an anchor holding the team back.

 

Charlie gone

Teo gone

LGJ gone

HR jacket gone

Barrio gone

 

Mattingly in

KK in

Belt in

 

Not happenstance. Deliberate cuts and additions

[Stangstag]

Didn't we just see a vid with a bunch of the DR national team saying the WBC is more important than the World Series? I don't blame the front office for wanting to bring in more Americans.

[Stangstag]

Been saying it for a long time and lots of guys mocked me for it but it was clear as day that the lack of maturity was an anchor holding the team back.

 

Charlie gone

Teo gone

LGJ gone

HR jacket gone

Barrio gone

 

Mattingly in

KK in

Belt in

 

Not happenstance. Deliberate cuts and additions

 

Missing a few others too...

 

Varsho

Basitt

Swanson

Whit

Bass

Cimber

Gausman

Chapman

 

All added within the last year and a half. Truly becoming the white jays lol

[L54]

Missing a few others too...

 

Varsho

Basitt

Swanson

Whit

Bass

Cimber

Gausman

Chapman

 

All added within the last year and a half. Truly becoming the white jays lol

 

Nothing to do with race. KK and Belt bring a level of playoff experience and an understanding of what it takes to win that those guys really don’t.

[John_Havok]

What would a Manoah extension look like right now. I know it's not a super priority but locking him in to guaranteed money sooner rather than later would be ideal imo, cost certainty and all that.

 

Jays have him for 5 more seasons including 2023 (1 league min year and then arb 1-4 as a Super 2), so ... 5 years/50 could account for his remaining arb years pretty easily.

 

2023 - 1m (vs league min)

2024 - 4m (arb1)

2025 - 9m (arb2)

2026 - 15m (arb3)

2027 - 20m (arb4)

 

something along those lines anways.

 

Team options for 2 more seasons after that at 25 per, with a 4 million buyout or something? Total of 7 years, 100 million possible if the options are picked up, 5 years 54 if options not picked up. Could add in some bonuses for top 3 Cy Young placement or Cy Young wins.

 

low? High?

[Jimcanuck]

Sign a long term with a pitcher with 5 yrs of control. Nah. Pitchers, man.

[Terminator]

Lol you guys are so DUMN.

 

Gurriel was a class clown, no doubt about it. But what did Teoscar ever do other than the fact that he spoke Spanish? Seemed like he was the butt of a lot of jokes because he was more serious than anything else. Dude also hit two jacks in an elimination game so not sure how he was the problem.

 

Dimanno doesn't even report anything new other than what we've observed. Bichette adds some color to it but the jacket got stale and was likely getting dumped one way or the other anyway.

 

And getting rid of two Spanish speaking players for two American players is 1) a SSS that most definitely could be "happenstance" and 2) could quite easily be explained by the fact that the new guys are better fits for the team due the fact they bat left handed and one of them is a GG defensive player. Defense and left handed bats were definitely something that needed improving.

 

Get the hell out of here with this "white jays" BS.

[John_Havok]

Lol you guys are so DUMN.

 

Gurriel was a class clown, no doubt about it. But what did Teoscar ever do other than the fact that he spoke Spanish? Seemed like he was the butt of a lot of jokes because he was more serious than anything else. Dude also hit two jacks in an elimination game so not sure how he was the problem.

 

Dimanno doesn't even report anything new other than what we've observed. Bichette adds some color to it but the jacket got stale and was likely getting dumped one way or the other anyway.

 

And getting rid of two Spanish speaking players for two American players is 1) a SSS that most definitely could be "happenstance" and 2) could quite easily be explained by the fact that the new guys are better fits for the team due the fact they bat left handed and one of them is a GG defensive player. Defense and left handed bats were definitely something that needed improving.

 

Get the hell out of here with this "white jays" BS.

 

add that both were going into the last years of their contracts.

[Jimcanuck]

Lol you guys are so DUMN.

 

Gurriel was a class clown, no doubt about it. But what did Teoscar ever do other than the fact that he spoke Spanish? Seemed like he was the butt of a lot of jokes because he was more serious than anything else. Dude also hit two jacks in an elimination game so not sure how he was the problem.

 

Dimanno doesn't even report anything new other than what we've observed. Bichette adds some color to it but the jacket got stale and was likely getting dumped one way or the other anyway.

 

And getting rid of two Spanish speaking players for two American players is 1) a SSS that most definitely could be "happenstance" and 2) could quite easily be explained by the fact that the new guys are better fits for the team due the fact they bat left handed and one of them is a GG defensive player. Defense and left handed bats were definitely something that needed improving.

 

Get the hell out of here with this "white jays" BS.

 

Agreed the "white jays" thing is BS, but IMO the dismantling of the barrio was intentional.

[Laika]

Lol you guys are so DUMN.

 

Gurriel was a class clown, no doubt about it. But what did Teoscar ever do other than the fact that he spoke Spanish? Seemed like he was the butt of a lot of jokes because he was more serious than anything else. Dude also hit two jacks in an elimination game so not sure how he was the problem.

 

Dimanno doesn't even report anything new other than what we've observed. Bichette adds some color to it but the jacket got stale and was likely getting dumped one way or the other anyway.

 

And getting rid of two Spanish speaking players for two American players is 1) a SSS that most definitely could be "happenstance" and 2) could quite easily be explained by the fact that the new guys are better fits for the team due the fact they bat left handed and one of them is a GG defensive player. Defense and left handed bats were definitely something that needed improving.

 

Get the hell out of here with this "white jays" BS.

 

Yeah

 

Gurriel was a clown but he also just kind of sucks, since he's a statue in the outfield and too enigmatic/incomplete with the bat.

 

Teoscar being moved was just a monetary efficiency thing, and part of a series of moves to build out a more well-rounded team. His horrible defense and bad baserunning decisions were getting stale.

 

In both respects it was just a baseball team moving on from a ~30 year old corner outfielder getting near free agency...

 

... the murder of the Barrio might have been a side-effect. Maybe the organization saw that as a positive but it would not have been the point of the moves.