Around Baseball 2023

[The Cats Ass]

Yay another nonsense hot take. You're on a massive roll today posting stupid s***. Chapman posted a 4.1 FWAR in 2021 (3.9 WAR/600 plate appearances), a 4.2 WAR in 2022 (4.06 WAR/600 plate appearances), and a 3.5 FWAR in 2023 (3.61 WAR/600 plate appearances). The 2023 drop saw him play in 15 fewer games than 2022 due to a finger injury, and the injury noticably hampered upon his return. But here you are calling it pukeworthy because he experienced a whopping 10% drop in his relative performance.

 

He needs to up that average if he wants the big bucks. And Jays24 approval.

[Jays24]

Yay another nonsense hot take. You're on a massive roll today posting stupid s***. Chapman posted a 4.1 FWAR in 2021 (3.9 WAR/600 plate appearances), a 4.2 WAR in 2022 (4.06 WAR/600 plate appearances), and a 3.5 FWAR in 2023 (3.61 WAR/600 plate appearances). The 2023 drop saw him play in 15 fewer games than 2022 due to a finger injury, and the injury noticably hampered upon his return. But here you are calling it pukeworthy because he experienced a whopping 10% drop in his relative performance.

 

He was batting 8th on a bad offensive team. My God, with the way you talk, you'd think the Jays had the best offensive team in the game. Hate to break it to you but Chapman and Varsho were major disappointments this past season.

[Jimcanuck]

He was batting 8th on a bad offensive team. My God, with the way you talk, you'd think the Jays had the best offensive team in the game. Hate to break it to you but Chapman and Varsho were major disappointments this past season.

 

Vlad and Springer were major disappointments. Chapman and Varsho, not.

[Jays24]

Vlad and Springer were major disappointments. Chapman and Varsho, not.

 

Agreed about Vlad and Springer.

 

I honestly had more hope for Chapman and thought he could have turned the clock back to his MVP like season in a contract year and a better hip. Probably my fault for this expectation.

 

And Varsho's lack of power and contact ability was disappointing. Loved the defense and baserunning though. Those are elite skills.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jays24

[jaysblue]

Vlad and Springer were major disappointments. Chapman and Varsho, not.

 

Lol

[max silver]

He was batting 8th on a bad offensive team. My God, with the way you talk, you'd think the Jays had the best offensive team in the game. Hate to break it to you but Chapman and Varsho were major disappointments this past season.

 

You are so stupid I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for you. If you seriously think a 10% drop equals a massive disappointment then I'd suggest you should consider recalibrating your expectations.

[The Cats Ass]

Chapman is middle of the road with the bat for 3B. His glove then moves him up a couple tiers and gives him probably too 10 status at his position.

[Jays24]

You are so stupid I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for you. If you seriously think a 10% drop equals a massive disappointment then I'd suggest you should consider recalibrating your expectations.

 

Go read my comments above you f***tard. I had bigger expectations for Chapman, as did a lot of people when we traded for him.

 

In a contract year, I was expecting the best version of himself and I didn't see that. It sounds like he wants to be paid like that guy when he didn't show it... just that simple for me.

[max silver]

Go read my comments above you f***tard. I had bigger expectations for Chapman, as did a lot of people when we traded for him. In a contract year, I was expecting the best version of himself and I didn't see that.

 

What he provided this season was almost exactly in line with what he provided over the previous two seasons. It's not my fault you choose to conjure up completely unrealistic expectations.

[jaysblue]

Matt Chapman is a really solid 3B. A lot of his value is driven from his glove, which knocks him up a couple of tiers likely around the Top 10 when it comes to third baseman.

 

Otherwise with the bat, he's nothing special. He should ideally be hitting in the bottom third of the order. No higher than 6th in a lineup. When he was brought here to Toronto, he was treated as a cleanup hitter/No. 5 hitter, which he clearly was not.

[Jays24]

What he provided this season was almost exactly in line with what he provided over the previous two seasons. It's not my fault you choose to conjure up completely unrealistic expectations.

 

So here people are talking about it being a down year for Varsho and he'll be better based on 1.5 seasons of performance history but when I feel that way about Chapman who said his injured hip and recovery process hurt his performance, I'm an idiot. This place is hilarious man lol.

[max silver]

So here people are talking about it being a down year for Varsho and he'll be better based on 1.5 seasons of performance history but when I feel that way about Chapman who said his injured hip and recovery process hurt his performance, I'm an idiot. This place is hilarious man lol.

 

Once again you can't understand a very simple concept. Chapman is something like 3 years removed from his hip surgery, that's simply a thing of the past with no relevance at this stage. You literally called his season pukeworthy when he provided a tiny bit less value to the team over the season. Varsho provided more value in 2023 compared to Moreno, yet you act like he's a future hall of famer and Varsho is a scrub. You are basically the Sid Sexeiro of this board, yet completely devoid of even the basic knowledge of sports to the table.

[Jays24]

Once again you can't understand a very simple concept. Chapman is something like 3 years removed from his hip surgery, that's simply a thing of the past with no relevance at this stage. You literally called his season pukeworthy when he provided a tiny bit less value to the team over the season. Varsho provided more value in 2023 compared to Moreno, yet you act like he's a future hall of famer and Varsho is a scrub. You are basically the Sid Sexeiro of this board, yet completely devoid of even the basic knowledge of sports to the table.

 

Agreed about sounding likr Sid on my points but like I said, it's a message board with anonymity so Id prefer to save myself extra work than worry about articulating.myself better.

 

In addition to having more tim to completely heal from his injury, I expected a contract year to be a big reason why Chapman could turn back to Oakland MVP guy, which he actually showed to start the season.

 

Varsho for sure has value as a player but I hated the trade at the time and still do. I get why it was made but feel we should have gotten Carroll from Arizona based on what we gave even if we had to add slightly more to it.

[Spanky__99]

Matt Chapman is a really solid 3B. A lot of his value is driven from his glove, which knocks him up a couple of tiers likely around the Top 10 when it comes to third baseman.

 

Otherwise with the bat, he's nothing special. He should ideally be hitting in the bottom third of the order. No higher than 6th in a lineup. When he was brought here to Toronto, he was treated as a cleanup hitter/No. 5 hitter, which he clearly was not.

 

Chapman was a top 10 bat at 3B just last season. Combined with his glove, he's valuable, just not for what he's asking going forward, I'm out.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Chapman was a top 10 bat at 3B just last season. Combined with his glove, he's valuable, just not for what he's asking going forward, I'm out.

 

Top ten at 3B?

 

"Pukeworthy" according to the drama queen lol

[Jays24]

Top ten at 3B?

 

"Pukeworthy" according to the drama queen lol

 

I never said that man... he's def top 10.

 

I said it's pukeworthy that it feels like he wants to be paid like a guy who was coming off his MVP Oakland year instead of what he did this past season...

[Eat My Shatkins]

Giving Chapman anything more than 100M over 5 years would be ridiculous. He needs to pull a Semien/Bellinger by betting on himself and then look for that contract. What he did this past season was pukeworthy for his standards.

 

I never said that man... he's def top 10.

 

I said it's pukeworthy that it feels like he wants to be paid like a guy who was coming off his MVP Oakland year instead of what he did this past season...

 

You said EXACTLY that lol

[Jays24]

You said EXACTLY that lol

 

What he did this season if he thinks he's going to get a massive deal is pukeworthy. Excuse my English as it's clearly my second language lol.

 

And not saying there isn't a dumb team out there but I just hope we aren't the one who get desperate if we strikeout on Ohtani. I'd love Chapman back but only on a deal that reflects how he's performed the past few years.

[L54]

Holy f*** some of you need to get on Tinder or slide into some DM’s or something. Don’t all of you live in major metropolitan areas? Should be like shooting fish in a barrel

[Jays24]

Holy f*** some of you need to get on Tinder or slide into some DM’s or something. Don’t all of you live in major metropolitan areas? Should be like shooting fish in a barrel

 

I'm just here waiting for the Ohtani news man. I don't post this much otherwise lol.

[Key22]

I think when we look at these guys it is in the context of a poor overall offensive showing especially with RISP. Also, where they hit in the line-up. If Varsho is our 9-hole hitter we would all be pretty damn happy with the guy. Elite (as in best in baseball CF defence) along with 15-25 homer pop - good bunting skills plays hard and isn't a bum on the bases. But they were batting him in the middle of the order so he looked bad.

 

Chapman too was hitting in the top half of the order but is probably more suitable to the 7-8-hole. At the top of the order you expect more star offensive ability and last year you basically only got that from Bichette. Springer was not himself. Kirk was not himself, Vlad was not himself. 3 of your top hitters were poor and then more focus is put on the lower-tier hitters.

 

But it's a bit hard to justify 100m/5 for Chapman or really any defence first player. A run saved is the same as a run earned but it's tougher to sell that to fans. Plus if the plan is that he is a 7 hole sort of bat then $20m+ a year is a lot. Plus, you'd rather elite d at SS and CF.

 

The old-school team construction is that you build up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF and Pitching). Add some power bats and your big hitters at the corners (3B/1B/LF/RF/DH)

 

Ie; a great defensive SS/CF/C/2B is more valuable than a great defensive player on the corners. Thus, Chapman as great as he is defensively, you'd like to see more offense given his price tag. Inflation I guess. I'd probably only want Chapman on a 3-year deal - his defence is his primary attribute and that may begin to wane in the near future given his age. Although he certainly looks to be in great shape. Still, 5 years for someone who can't get around on a high fastball (like Springer) worries me because then you have to guys who won't be able to hit high-velocity relievers late in games. With the Jays right now - the only player in the order you feel confident in in a big situation is Bichette (and oddly maybe Jansen). Once Jansen decided to just swing to his strength (pull) and not try to be a spray hitter he seems to have greatly improved.

[John_Havok]

I think when we look at these guys it is in the context of a poor overall offensive showing especially with RISP. Also, where they hit in the line-up. If Varsho is our 9-hole hitter we would all be pretty damn happy with the guy. Elite (as in best in baseball CF defence) along with 15-25 homer pop - good bunting skills plays hard and isn't a bum on the bases. But they were batting him in the middle of the order so he looked bad.

 

Chapman too was hitting in the top half of the order but is probably more suitable to the 7-8-hole. At the top of the order you expect more star offensive ability and last year you basically only got that from Bichette. Springer was not himself. Kirk was not himself, Vlad was not himself. 3 of your top hitters were poor and then more focus is put on the lower-tier hitters.

 

But it's a bit hard to justify 100m/5 for Chapman or really any defence first player. A run saved is the same as a run earned but it's tougher to sell that to fans. Plus if the plan is that he is a 7 hole sort of bat then $20m+ a year is a lot. Plus, you'd rather elite d at SS and CF.

 

The old-school team construction is that you build up the middle (C, SS, 2B, CF and Pitching). Add some power bats and your big hitters at the corners (3B/1B/LF/RF/DH)

 

Ie; a great defensive SS/CF/C/2B is more valuable than a great defensive player on the corners. Thus, Chapman as great as he is defensively, you'd like to see more offense given his price tag. Inflation I guess. I'd probably only want Chapman on a 3-year deal - his defence is his primary attribute and that may begin to wane in the near future given his age. Although he certainly looks to be in great shape. Still, 5 years for someone who can't get around on a high fastball (like Springer) worries me because then you have to guys who won't be able to hit high-velocity relievers late in games. With the Jays right now - the only player in the order you feel confident in in a big situation is Bichette (and oddly maybe Jansen). Once Jansen decided to just swing to his strength (pull) and not try to be a spray hitter he seems to have greatly improved.

 

optics played a role for sure in how fans perceive players. If Vlad, Bo and Springer were all having great seasons instead of just Bo, Varsho and CHappy's failings with the bat and their place in the order would definitely not have been as big of a deal.

 

Could put Belt in that category do for the first 6 weeks of the season. Dude was probably a week away from being DFA when he woke up

[burlingtonbandit]

Holy f*** some of you need to get on Tinder or slide into some DMÂ’s or something. DonÂ’t all of you live in major metropolitan areas? Should be like shooting fish in a barrel

 

Downtown Toronto is just all immigrants riding bicycles for Uber Eats now.

[L54]

Downtown Toronto is just all immigrants riding bicycles for Uber Eats now.

 

Hahaha nice sounds like my kinda party!!

[Terminator]

Downtown Toronto is just all immigrants riding bicycles for Uber Eats now.

 

lol

[G-Snarls]

[Ehjays]

[L54]

 

Oof that’s pretty bad

[G-Snarls]

Oof that’s pretty bad

 

Yeah he's a bad defender

 

Will be at 1B before long

[G-Snarls]