Fire John Schneider

[Stangstag]

Logic don’t apply to these clowns. Let’s see how many players now choose to play for the jays when their ace can’t get more then 3 inning when dealing cause the Gm decided

 

Well luckily we have 4 rotation spots pretty much locked for the foreseeable future.

[RobinThicc]

They need a manager who can push back on this s***.

 

So adamant about pulling their plan off they ignore context of the game.

[Nexii]

Was Gausman going to start Game 1 of the ALDS on 3 days rest? The analytics aren't pretty on that either

[Stangstag]

They need a manager who can push back on this s***.

 

So adamant about pulling their plan off they ignore context of the game.

 

They won’t hire a manager that will push back.

[BigCecil]

Sampson is one of the boys. He won't say a bad word about Shapiro. Moreover he is wrong.

 

De-nial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

He wasnt saying a bad or good word about Mark and Ross - just how it all goes and went down. This was not a JS decision and he had no ability to stop it, other than taking a bullet. Which i guess he could have done. But they hired him because he does what they say.

[John_Havok]

Well if they do fire Schneider, I hear Buck Showalter is available.

[Omar]

De-nial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

He wasnt saying a bad or good word about Mark and Ross - just how it all goes and went down. This was not a JS decision and he had no ability to stop it, other than taking a bullet. Which i guess he could have done. But they hired him because he does what they say.

 

Patently untrue.

[Omar]

More importantly I'd say that you need to communicate the general plan with the players. Last thing you want is them thinking about a shocking decision over the game itself.

 

Really feels like there's a big disconnect between management and the players

 

[BigCecil]

Patently untrue.

 

Well I think we have beat this to death lol.

[Omar]

Well I think we have beat this to death lol.

 

Sorry BigC but it's going to take about a week to get it out of my system.

[Terminator]

Let's hire Jose Bautista.

[Jimcanuck]

Let's hire Jose Bautista.

 

Not until roboumps

[BigCecil]

Sorry BigC but it's going to take about a week to get it out of my system.

 

No worries man. Lot of frustrations. I’m in the exact same boat. Keep thinking about it. It’s going to take a day or two before I can get into the teams playing on. Wishing we were there. But it’s always a good distraction. Playoff baseball the best.

[JaysAllMighty]

Atkins made it clear, pulling Berrios was Schneider's decision. I hate dumb Schneider, he needs to go.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Atkins made it clear, pulling Berrios was Schneider's decision. I hate dumb Schneider, he needs to go.

 

 

What he did was threw his manger under the bus, which will be very problematic going fwd within the Blue Jays org. What he also did not do is take accountability and state that at the end of the day Ross sets conditions and is responsible for decisions made and the result.

 

I would be fnnnnn fuming if I were JS.

[Pinkfloid]

Way to throw your coach under the bus. Whatever faith I might've still had in Atkins is completely gone. What a terrible look for a leader to say things like this. He's got to go.

[Laika]

Atkins also said during the presser that the strategy probably worked if you look at the whole game. Limited them to two runs. I dunno if this is quite the bus throwing they everybody is saying it is

[JaysAllMighty]

People defending Schneider is making me vomit. Just stop.

[Carlos Danger]

Atkins also said during the presser that the strategy probably worked if you look at the whole game. Limited them to two runs. I dunno if this is quite the bus throwing they everybody is saying it is

 

To this point - The game was 0-0 when the decision was made, it was 2-0 after.

 

Second- JS went out of his way in a very difficult post game conference to make it clear these are organizational decisions not pointing specifically at Ross nor saying if he felt he didn’t have autonomy.

 

Ross flat out says John’s decision. There are ways of setting conditions for your subordinates to believe you want a course of action and if you don’t go that route it will be unsat vs having a boss telling you to do a specific action directly.

[deanmike]

Schneider and Atkins both need to go. Turning this organization into a joke.

[Laika]

Bailey Ober and Ranger Suarez both pulled around 50 pitches today.

 

The Berrios thing really is not that unique in the context of modern playoff baseball

[John_Havok]

Atkins also said during the presser that the strategy probably worked if you look at the whole game. Limited them to two runs. I dunno if this is quite the bus throwing they everybody is saying it is

 

It’s not, he also made other comments about organizational strategy that had been communicated to the players.

 

Scenario 1 - Atkins comes out and says “yes I did it. I made the call, I made him do it” does that change anything even if not true? Not really. Then people would just be bitching about him and just hiring puppets and stuff.

 

Scenario 2 - Atkins says exactly what he said, it was Schneiders call all the way, he doesn’t interfere beyond laying out a framework philosophy. In game decisions are Schneiders. Then people bitch that Atkins must be lying to try to save face.

 

People just like bitching. Chances are Atkins told 100% truth. The only thing I would say to Atkins about his comments is that while he needs to make clear that Schneider makes the in game decisions, the club has a philosophy that Atkins put forth and that philosophy could definitely be a factor in Schneiders decision making process in that game, even though all decisions are still up to Schneider.

 

 

After that, Schneider will have meeting with Atkins, Atkins will ask him why he made the call and his reasoning, and if the reasoning makes sense within the framework Atkins laid out, and Schneiders owns the decision (which he should) the only decision is whether you fire Schneider. Clearly that’s not the decision here as he’s already confirmed to be returning.

 

Now, Atkins will have to have the same type of meeting with Shapiro and defend his org philosophy which resulted in what we saw play out, and what he will do to address the problems. And there’s really only two ways to go with that, either Atkins doubles down and says he fully believes in what he’s doing and here’s why he thinks the results will be different, or he adjusts and says yeah, it’s not working, that’s on me, here’s my new plan. Shapiro then ultimately decides whether or not to keep him and let him work on the new plan, or fire him and bring in someone else.

 

None of this is really a newsflash to anyone remotely familiar with how large corporations are run so it’s weird that everyone sees this as Atkins “blaming” Schneider or throwing him under the bus.

[Omar]

Bailey Ober and Ranger Suarez both pulled around 50 pitches today.

 

The Berrios thing really is not that unique in the context of modern playoff baseball

 

Different situation. Game one vs win or go home game. Ober gave up three earned runs before being pulled. They went to the pen, not unproven starter turned reliever for the first time this season.

 

Meh, I think the horse has expired.

[Omar]

Atkins did say something about changing his approach to the lineup construction next year. I can't find the presser recorded anywhere but I recall something about changing his approach. Thought it was interesting.

[Carlos Danger]

Now, Atkins will have to have the same type of meeting with Shapiro and defend his org philosophy which resulted in what we saw play out, and what he will do to address the problems. And there’s really only two ways to go with that, either Atkins doubles down and says he fully believes in what he’s doing and here’s why he thinks the results will be different, or he adjusts and says yeah, it’s not working, that’s on me, here’s my new plan. Shapiro then ultimately decides whether or not to keep him and let him work on the new plan, or fire him and bring in someone else.

 

None of this is really a newsflash to anyone remotely familiar with how large corporations are run so it’s weird that everyone sees this as Atkins “blaming” Schneider or throwing him under the bus.

 

It seems you are under the impression that Shapiro is not very much involved in the player and personnel side of the org and just working on things like stadium renos.

 

I have never believed that with Shapiro. Unlike Beeston, Shapiro was a GM for so many years. AA knew this and that is why he left. Reinforced when David Sampson former CEO and President of the Marlins was on the radio other day and stated (Hyperbole paraphrase) "You are smoking crack if you don't think Shapiro specifically and guys like Kenny Williams - CWS are not involved in day to day player/field baseball decisions operations".

[PitaBaby]

It seems you are under the impression that Shapiro is not very much involved in the player and personnel side of the org and just working on things like stadium renos.

 

I have never believed that with Shapiro. Unlike Beeston, Shapiro was a GM for so many years. AA knew this and that is why he left. Reinforced when David Sampson former CEO and President of the Marlins was on the radio other day and stated (Hyperbole paraphrase) "You are smoking crack if you don't think Shapiro specifically and guys like Kenny Williams - CWS are not involved in day to day player/field baseball decisions operations".

 

That shapiro guy is why AA left. There was no time for nonsense. Yet look where we're at now.

 

Go Braves *tomahawk chop* (vomit)

[John_Havok]

It seems you are under the impression that Shapiro is not very much involved in the player and personnel side of the org and just working on things like stadium renos.

 

I have never believed that with Shapiro. Unlike Beeston, Shapiro was a GM for so many years. AA knew this and that is why he left. Reinforced when David Sampson former CEO and President of the Marlins was on the radio other day and stated (Hyperbole paraphrase) "You are smoking crack if you don't think Shapiro specifically and guys like Kenny Williams - CWS are not involved in day to day player/field baseball decisions operations".

 

Well, if you recall the year prior to 2015, there were all kinds of rumours that seemed to have validity that Rogers was courting replacements for Beeston (specifically Dan Duquette, then GM of the Orioles and Kenny Williams, then GM of the White Sox) for when his contract ran out at the end of 2014 and that did not go over well with either Beeston or AA. The scuttlebutt at the time was that the 1 year extension that Beeston signed was done almost begrudgingly and AA decided right then he wasn’t going to extend past 2015 when his deal expired. Before 2015 even started though it was announced that Beeston would be retiring at the end of 2015.

 

Shapiro offered AA an extension, AA turned it down. AAs quotes on why he left:

 

“For myself, my next expedition in baseball, my number one priority will be who can I learn from. Where could I go and just be exposed to some things that I haven’t and just improve and come out a lot better whether it’s two years or three years from now.”

 

“Two, key people you want to work with that you respect that you get along with certainly would be important.”

 

“The third part, role and things like that, I wouldn’t really concern myself with that. Dollars, role; that would really be last on the list.”

 

“It would just be where can I get better, where can I learn, where can I have some fun … and the rest will just take care of itself.”

 

I suppose depending on the lens, those quotes could be used to support either explanation, but it was clear AA no longer wanted to be in Toronto once Beeston was gone.

[Carlos Danger]

Well, if you recall the year prior to 2015, there were all kinds of rumours that seemed to have validity that Rogers was courting replacements for Beeston (specifically Dan Duquette, then GM of the Orioles and Kenny Williams, then GM of the White Sox) for when his contract ran out at the end of 2014 and that did not go over well with either Beeston or AA. The scuttlebutt at the time was that the 1 year extension that Beeston signed was done almost begrudgingly and AA decided right then he wasn’t going to extend past 2015 when his deal expired. Before 2015 even started though it was announced that Beeston would be retiring at the end of 2015.

 

Shapiro offered AA an extension, AA turned it down. AAs quotes on why he left:

 

“For myself, my next expedition in baseball, my number one priority will be who can I learn from. Where could I go and just be exposed to some things that I haven’t and just improve and come out a lot better whether it’s two years or three years from now.”

 

“Two, key people you want to work with that you respect that you get along with certainly would be important.”

 

“The third part, role and things like that, I wouldn’t really concern myself with that. Dollars, role; that would really be last on the list.”

 

“It would just be where can I get better, where can I learn, where can I have some fun … and the rest will just take care of itself.”

 

I suppose depending on the lens, those quotes could be used to support either explanation, but it was clear AA no longer wanted to be in Toronto once Beeston was gone.

 

Or this might have helped AA's decision if you want to believe it.. Apparently confirmed by other media members as well.

 

Source: In their 1st & only meeting, new Jays prez Mark Shapiro scolded Alex Anthopolous & staff for trading so many top prospects this yr

 

— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) October 29, 2015

[John_Havok]

Or this might have helped AA's decision if you want to believe it.. Apparently confirmed by other media members as well.

 

Source: In their 1st & only meeting, new Jays prez Mark Shapiro scolded Alex Anthopolous & staff for trading so many top prospects this yr

 

— Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) October 29, 2015

 

AA wasn’t coming back no matter who they hired imo, unless the guy they hired was Friedman, who wasn’t available.

[hanton]

Atkins did say something about changing his approach to the lineup construction next year. I can't find the presser recorded anywhere but I recall something about changing his approach. Thought it was interesting.

 

to hitting

 

he said he had faith in his solution but it didn't work and will work on finding as new solution

 

^maybe it was that?