Toronto Blue Jays Roster Discussion (2022)

[Spanky99]

Kirk and Moreno bring back more value for sure, but I am still OK trading Jansen as long as it is not at a discount. If we're trading for a CF from Arizona, I would be considering trades whose main pieces are Kirk and Varsho, Moreno and Carroll, or Jansen and Thomas.

 

Why would our front office sell at a discount? Relax man, sky isn't falling.

[Captain_Obvious]

Why would our front office sell at a discount? Relax man, sky isn't falling.

 

The team was misusing Jansen for most of the season by batting him 8th and not giving him enough ABs at DH. It felt like they did not know what they have in Jansen. Luckily, this changed in the last two weeks, so there is hope they realized their mistake.

[Jimcanuck]

The team was misusing Jansen for most of the season by batting him 8th and not giving him enough ABs at DH. It felt like they did not know what they have in Jansen. Luckily, this changed in the last two weeks, so there is hope they realized their mistake.

 

The team didn't miss anything. I am sure if asked, Shatkins/Schneider will have perfectly valid reasons for Jansen generally being in the bottom 3rd of the order.

[Captain_Obvious]

The team didn't miss anything. I am sure if asked, Shatkins/Schneider will have perfectly valid reasons for Jansen generally being in the bottom 3rd of the order.

 

Huh? So what you're saying is that the Blue Jays know something that every other baseball team and analyst do not .. where is it optimal to give your most productive hitter fewer PAs than one of your least productive hitters.

 

No. They wisened up later and started giving him games at DH and batting him higher in the order at the end of the season. They would not have done this otherwise.

[Jimcanuck]

Huh? So what you're saying is that the Blue Jays know something that every other baseball team and analyst do not .. where is it optimal to give your most productive hitter fewer PAs than one of your least productive hitters.

 

No. They wisened up later and started giving him games at DH and batting him higher in the order at the end of the season. They would not have done this otherwise.

 

This post is laughable. Of course they were well aware. Maybe they waited til the end of season when the games got more critical, to limit the injury risk / maybe Jansen was still banged up. The loss of a catcher that works every day with and is familiar with the pitching staff is far worse than any other position player.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Jimcanuck

[Laika]

Huh? So what you're saying is that the Blue Jays know something that every other baseball team and analyst do not .. where is it optimal to give your most productive hitter fewer PAs than one of your least productive hitters.

 

No. They wisened up later and started giving him games at DH and batting him higher in the order at the end of the season. They would not have done this otherwise.

 

Jansen ranks as probably their 6th best PROJECTED hitter right now. For most of the season he probably ranked 8th or 7th. Maybe even 9th at the beginning.

[Omar]

Can Jansen hit the breaking ball? Seems almost every home run he hits is against fastballs with him ambushing pitchers. Before we crown him let’s see how he does over a 100 games played in a season facing a healthy diet of breaking stuff. He will come back to earth a bit. That said I believe he is our best catcher all things considered. Great pull hitter but kind of one dimensional bat.

[Laika]

Can Jansen hit the breaking ball? Seems almost every home run he hits is against fastballs with him ambushing pitchers. Before we crown him let’s see how he does over a 100 games played in a season facing a healthy diet of breaking stuff. He will come back to earth a bit. That said I believe he is our best catcher all things considered. Great pull hitter but kind of one dimensional bat.

 

He made a lot of contact in 2022 for a guy with his flyball and pull tendencies.

[Captain_Obvious]

Can Jansen hit the breaking ball? Seems almost every home run he hits is against fastballs with him ambushing pitchers. Before we crown him let’s see how he does over a 100 games played in a season facing a healthy diet of breaking stuff. He will come back to earth a bit. That said I believe he is our best catcher all things considered. Great pull hitter but kind of one dimensional bat.

 

Stop making s*** up. At least go check videos which takes 5 minutes. I only checked from 12-15. Most came against off-speed pitches. He hits everything.

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-15-on-a-fly-ball-to-left-field?cp=MIXED&p=0&q=PlayerId%20%3D%20%5B643376%5D%20Order%20By%20Timestamp%20DESC

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-14-on-a-line-drive-to-left-center-field?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-s-four-hit-night?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-12-on-a-fly-ball-to-left-center-field-cavan-biggio-sc?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

[Omar]

Stop making s*** up. At least go check videos which takes 5 minutes. I only checked from 12-15. Most came against off-speed pitches. He hits everything.

 

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-15-on-a-fly-ball-to-left-field?cp=MIXED&p=0&q=PlayerId%20%3D%20%5B643376%5D%20Order%20By%20Timestamp%20DESC

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-14-on-a-line-drive-to-left-center-field?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-s-four-hit-night?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

https://www.mlb.com/video/danny-jansen-homers-12-on-a-fly-ball-to-left-center-field-cavan-biggio-sc?q=danny%20jansen&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

 

Lol, what am supposed to discern from those videos? That he hit's everything? No he doesn't.

 

I just looked around and this is what I found:

"Lo and behold, pitchers have thrown him breaking balls 39.2% of the time in 2022, up from 29.3% of the time in 2021. This gameplan change is very sensible, as Jansen is only hitting for a .100 batting average and slugging .250 against breaking balls in 2022. As he has shown he can do damage against fastballs, he has hit 80% of his HRs over the past two seasons against fastballs, and pitchers have counter-adjusted to his pull power by throwing him more breaking balls."

Pretty much what I had surmised. You can read the full article here if you want or you can just watch the game with a little more discernment.

https://bluejaysnation.com/2022/08/04/danny-jansens-transformation-into-danny-bats-has-been-a-long-time-coming-but-is-it-sustainable/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laika]

You guys know they have pitch splits on statcast right?

 

Just look at Jansen vs breaking balls and compare that to some other good hitters (everyone does better against fastballs ofc)

[Omar]

You guys know they have pitch splits on statcast right?

 

Just look at Jansen vs breaking balls and compare that to some other good hitters (everyone does better against fastballs ofc)

 

I was going to go that route as well at the risk of making things up. Look, I am a Jansen fan. One of my favourite players on the team. Doesn’t mean we can’t look at them critically.

[Captain_Obvious]

I was going to go that route as well at the risk of making things up. Look, I am a Jansen fan. One of my favourite players on the team. Doesn’t mean we can’t look at them critically.

 

Here it is:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/danny-jansen-643376?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb#pitch_tracking

 

In 2022, he killed sliders, cutters, and FBs of all types. He was very good against change ups. Curveball is the only pitch that he sucked against in 2022. He did hit curveballs better in the past though, and it is not a commonly thrown pitch anyways.

[Omar]

Stop making s*** up. At least go check videos which takes 5 minutes. I only checked from 12-15. Most came against off-speed pitches. He hits everything.[/QUOTE]

 

Here it is:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/danny-jansen-643376?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb#pitch_tracking

 

In 2022, he killed sliders, cutters, and FBs of all types. He was very good against change ups. Curveball is the only pitch that he sucked against in 2022. He did hit curveballs better in the past though, and it is not a commonly thrown pitch anyways.

 

okay

[connorp]

He still has to bust out boys. Still a smidge below league average for his career with the bat. Been worth less than 6 WAR over his first full 4 years, with 2 years of control left.

 

Still a little soon to put his junk in your mouth. Most non-Jay fans would tell you that I’m sure.

 

That doesn’t say you can’t get excited about 250 PAs but geez

[RobinThicc]

My guess is Jansen probably has more value to the Jays FO than he has around the league. I think he ends up staying.

[harvey16]

In all honesty, I think it's a no brainer, that Kirk is the Catcher you trade of the 3. He's got the most trade value by far. His numbers really dropped off in the second half of last year and I think he is primed to regress. Sell high on this guy while you can! Moreno has proven that his bat can play at the MLB level and we all know his defense and ability to throw out runners is elite. Janssen is a capable DH when he is not catching.

[Stangstag]

My guess is Jansen probably has more value to the Jays FO than he has around the league. I think he ends up staying.

 

Yeah I kinda agree on this. Which is why I feel Kirk or Moreno will be traded instead.

[Stangstag]

In all honesty, I think it's a no brainer, that Kirk is the Catcher you trade of the 3. He's got the most trade value by far. His numbers really dropped off in the second half of last year and I think he is primed to regress. Sell high on this guy while you can! Moreno has proven that his bat can play at the MLB level and we all know his defense and ability to throw out runners is elite. Janssen is a capable DH when he is not catching.

 

No, he has not. He has 73 plate appearances and while he’s looked good, it’s foolish to say he’s proven at the MLB level. Many prospects start strong and begin to fade when the league adjusts and learns how to pitch them

[Terminator]

I swear Jansen fanboys are the most retarded subsection of fandom in the game. Roger Maris Jr. acolytes have more brains than you racist fatphobic dopes.

 

Hilarious how the Jansen fanboys think he’s Mike Piazza after “breaking out” and putting up 4 WAR combined in 140 games over the past two years. Big deal! Kirk did that in just this season alone, and he did it at age 23 when most catchers are still learning the game in the minors.

[Stangstag]

I swear Jansen fanboys are the most retarded subsection of fandom in the game. Roger Maris Jr. acolytes have more brains than you racist fatphobic dopes.

 

Hilarious how the Jansen fanboys think he’s Mike Piazza after “breaking out” and putting up 4 WAR combined in 140 games over the past two years. Big deal! Kirk did that in just this season alone, and he did it at age 23 when most catchers are still learning the game in the minors.

 

Projecting

[Captain_Obvious]

I swear Jansen fanboys are the most retarded subsection of fandom in the game. Roger Maris Jr. acolytes have more brains than you racist fatphobic dopes.

 

Hilarious how the Jansen fanboys think he’s Mike Piazza after “breaking out” and putting up 4 WAR combined in 140 games over the past two years. Big deal! Kirk did that in just this season alone, and he did it at age 23 when most catchers are still learning the game in the minors.

 

Extrapolating Jansen's WAR over Kirk's 541 PA results in 5.7 WAR. This is while recovering from a HBP broken hand in the middle of the season. So you can f*** off. Jansen was by far the best Blue Jays position player whenever he played in 2022.

[Jimcanuck]

Thread is getting intense, let's cool down boys.

 

I've made my views clear. One fatty in the lineup is enough.

[Spanky99]

Extrapolating Jansen's WAR over Kirk's 541 PA results in 5.7 WAR. This is while recovering from a HBP broken hand in the middle of the season. So you can f*** off. Jansen was by far the best Blue Jays position player whenever he played in 2022.

 

lol... dude, you were just trolled. Like you fell for it hook line and sinker.

 

Also, you're forgetting about his oblique strain, he's an injury risk. I doubt Toronto can move him for the value they'd want.

[connorp]

I would’ve even call the finger a “freak” or “fluke” injury. HBP don’t happen every game but it’s not entirely uncommon. Sort of like awkward slides, diving plays etc… I’ve seen Vlad get hit in the hand and you hold you breath for a minute but it’s ok in the end. Maybe a day off to rest the hand. Guys like Stanton, Buxton, and Jansen… they don’t seem to escape those situations

[connorp]

Furthermore, I decided to troll the last week of AUGUST when Danny was sitting a little below league avg with the bat, in line with his CAREER stats through 4+ years in the league. Then he has a Barry Bonds month, which pushed his wRC+ up so high because he wasn’t able to stay on the field most of the year, keeping the ABs low

 

Stick an ice cube in the shorts for now. Think of it as a sexy fantasy sleeper pick and hope it’s not a Greg Bird situation

[L54]

I swear Jansen fanboys are the most retarded subsection of fandom in the game. Roger Maris Jr. acolytes have more brains than you racist fatphobic dopes.

 

Hilarious how the Jansen fanboys think he’s Mike Piazza after “breaking out” and putting up 4 WAR combined in 140 games over the past two years. Big deal! Kirk did that in just this season alone, and he did it at age 23 when most catchers are still learning the game in the minors.

 

Nobody thinks this and you’re trying too hard

[connorp]

Nobody thinks this and you’re trying too hard

 

The one guy literally said he’s the Jays best position player (or was any time he played in 2022) and would be the best deal in baseball if he was extended

[Captain_Obvious]

The one guy literally said he’s the Jays best position player (or was any time he played in 2022) and would be the best deal in baseball if he was extended

 

Oh please. I said he WAS the best player in 2022 when he played. It is a fact that he produced the most WAR per PA of any Blue Jay going back to June 2021. I never said he will be the best player going forward, but I am betting his value will only go up as he builds more data points going forward. Also, I am fine with trading him for a good player, not s***** ones who will compete with Gurriel in terms of performance.

[Jimcanuck]

Oh please. I said he WAS the best player in 2022 when he played. It is a fact that he produced the most WAR per PA of any Blue Jay going back to June 2021. I never said he will be the best player going forward, but I am betting his value will only go up as he builds more data points going forward. Also, I am fine with trading him for a good player, not s***** ones who will compete with Gurriel in terms of performance.

 

connorp is the worst for misrepresenting what someone posts