General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Jimcanuck]

So Kikuchi the #5 to start with White as the backup plan. And then by midseason hopefully Zulu and Tiedemann could contribute. Maybe Francis somewhere along the way and perhaps Ryu after the AS break.

 

It’s all planned out

[Terminator]

Sounds like a plan that could quickly turn to disaster if anyone 1-4 goes down. In that scenario, we are no longer hoping Kikuchi can give us some decent innings, we are downright relying on him to.

[Stangstag]

So Kikuchi the #5 to start with White as the backup plan. And then by midseason hopefully Zulu and Tiedemann could contribute. Maybe Francis somewhere along the way and perhaps Ryu after the AS break.

 

That’s totally fine, I don’t understand why so many people are up in arms about Kikuchi/White being the #5 to start the season.

[Stangstag]

Sounds like a plan that could quickly turn to disaster if anyone 1-4 goes down. In that scenario, we are no longer hoping Kikuchi can give us some decent innings, we are downright relying on him to.

 

The Rays let Ryan Yarbrough start 30 games over the past 2 seasons.

[Brownie19]

Sounds like a plan that could quickly turn to disaster if anyone 1-4 goes down. In that scenario, we are no longer hoping Kikuchi can give us some decent innings, we are downright relying on him to.

 

Have you seen the average results of a #5 starters? The bar isn't very high.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Kikuchi started 20 games for the Jays last season to the tune of negative 0.7 WAR and the Jays still won 92 games as a team. They can afford to trot him out again as a 5th starter if that's what they want to do IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

Kikuchi started 20 games for the Jays last season to the tune of negative 0.7 WAR and the Jays still won 92 games as a team. They can afford to trot him out again as a 5th starter if that's what they want to do IMO.

 

With the exception he's likely the 4th starter and possibly the 3rd starter for a good chunk of the season.

 

Remember last season started with Ryu as the 4th starter and Stripling in the bullpen.

[MON4NHLTOR4MLB]

We’ve replace Stripling with Bassitt and Teo with KK and added a pen arm. They’re reallllly banking on run suppression and imo have taken a big step back. Off-season not done yet though

[Jonn]

Assuming he’s healthy Kiermaier will be a game changer in CF. He could out WAR Teo from his Defense and Base running alone. Anything he provides offensively would be lovely.

[Jimcanuck]

We’ve replace Stripling with Bassitt and Teo with KK and added a pen arm. They’re reallllly banking on run suppression and imo have taken a big step back. Off-season not done yet though

 

No, Bassitt replaces Ryu. We don't have anyone in the bullpen comparable to Stripling, not even remotely. White has nothing close to Stripling's track record.

 

One might assess the pitching staff to be comparable to the staff at the start of last season, I say it's weaker.

[John_Havok]

No, Bassitt replaces Ryu. We don't have anyone in the bullpen comparable to Stripling, not even remotely. White has nothing close to Stripling's track record.

 

One might assess the pitching staff to be comparable to the staff at the start of last season, I say it's weaker.

 

Whomever replaced whomever, really isnt all that important. Point is the starting 3 are solid AF, #4 could easily return to his #2-3 form and #5 is a wildcard with several options behind him already not to mention the minor league deals we'll still probably see before spring training.

[Jimcanuck]

Whomever replaced whomever, really isnt all that important. Point is the starting 3 are solid AF, #4 could easily return to his #2-3 form and #5 is a wildcard with several options behind him already not to mention the minor league deals we'll still probably see before spring training.

 

Its just for the sake of comparing. And yes, there will be more moves to come. Point is, the pitching is comparatively weaker at this point.

 

Before last season started folks here thought the bullpen was strong, and "starting 3 are solid AF, #4 could easily return to his #2-3 form and #5 is a wildcard"

 

If one of the top 4 SP is lost for a length of time, now we have Kikuchi as #4 and White as #5, instead of Kikuchi #4 and Stripling #5.

[John_Havok]

Its just for the sake of comparing. And yes, there will be more moves to come. Point is, the pitching is comparatively weaker at this point.

 

Before last season started folks here thought the bullpen was strong, and "starting 3 are solid AF, #4 could easily return to his #2-3 form and #5 is a wildcard"

 

I dispute that anyone thought Ryu would return to form, most were probably pretty much done with him and were only saw Manoah Gausman and Berrios as solid, Kikuchi was still the wildcard.

 

I would argue the pitching overall is decidedly better than last year as a whole, though not like magnitudes better.

[John_Havok]

Its just for the sake of comparing. And yes, there will be more moves to come. Point is, the pitching is comparatively weaker at this point.

 

Before last season started folks here thought the bullpen was strong, and "starting 3 are solid AF, #4 could easily return to his #2-3 form and #5 is a wildcard"

 

If one of the top 4 SP is lost for a length of time, now we have Kikuchi as #4 and White as #5, instead of Kikuchi #4 and Stripling #5.

 

Can say that for nearly every rotation in baseball, that if one of the top 3 goes down, some random #5 who may or may not be any good takes the spot. Side note, I'm not overly high on White either, I see a 2 pitch pony that needs a changeup in the worst way.

[Jimcanuck]

Can say that for nearly every rotation in baseball, that if one of the top 3 goes down, some random #5 who may or may not be any good takes the spot. Side note, I'm not overly high on White either, I see a 2 pitch pony that needs a changeup in the worst way.

 

I went through 6 of the top AL teams. They all have a pitcher better than White to step in if one of the starting 5 goes down.

 

Jays need to add a Kluber, Wacha, or other similar type, so that White doesn't get 20-22 starts, but more like 6-7.

[Stangstag]

Kikuchi started 20 games for the Jays last season to the tune of negative 0.7 WAR and the Jays still won 92 games as a team. They can afford to trot him out again as a 5th starter if that's what they want to do IMO.

 

Berrios had negative WAR last year but I don’t expect either of them to be as bad in 2023. Projections see them rebounding.

[Stangstag]

No, Bassitt replaces Ryu. We don't have anyone in the bullpen comparable to Stripling, not even remotely. White has nothing close to Stripling's track record.

 

One might assess the pitching staff to be comparable to the staff at the start of last season, I say it's weaker.

 

I say yer dum

[Jimcanuck]

I say yer dum

 

Explain.

 

You realize that the pitching staff as currently constructed, Mitch White starts about 20 games?

[Laika]

Mitch White has a 3.84 FIP in 148 MLB innings. 1.9 WAR.

 

It’s fine to think he sucks but that’s simply an opinion.

 

Let’s not act like Casey Lawrence is the #6

[Stangstag]

Explain.

 

You realize that the pitching staff as currently constructed, Mitch White starts about 20 games?

 

I don’t think Mitch White starts 20 games next season, but even if he does his projections are actually decent. We have Kikuchi, White, Zulu, possibly Tiedeman and Ryu ready mid-late season, possible mid-season trade acquisition.

 

The rotation was more questionable/weaker at the start of 2022 than it is now.

[Stangstag]

Mitch White has a 3.84 FIP in 148 MLB innings. 1.9 WAR.

 

It’s fine to think he sucks but that’s simply an opinion.

 

Let’s not act like Casey Lawrence is the #6

 

Mitch White is young Ross Stripling, people are just too blind to see it. They would rather have us paying Stripling 15 mil

[Laika]

Mitch White is young Ross Stripling, people are just too blind to see it. They would rather have us paying Stripling 15 mil

 

Yeah he’s the swing man. He struggled after the deal so everyone thinks he is garbage. It’s natural I get it, but lots of players struggle after trades. s***, Strip was useless for a year and a half.

[Jimcanuck]

I don’t think Mitch White starts 20 games next season, but even if he does his projections are actually decent. We have Kikuchi, White, Zulu, possibly Tiedeman and Ryu ready mid-late season, possible mid-season trade acquisition.

 

The rotation was more questionable/weaker at the start of 2022 than it is now.

 

Kikuchi is #5. History will tell you the #6 starter starts roughly 20 games in a season, and 4 other depth pitchers start another 10-15.

 

White's numbers and projections reflect usage out of the bullpen. Numbers as a reliever tend to > numbers as a starter. We saw how Mitch White did as a starter last season.

 

Maybe he will do a mini-breakout as an SP, but a contending team shouldn't bank on it. He basically has two pitches, that can work as a reliever, generally does not as a starter.

 

White's Steamer projection is based on 8 starts, and 34 appearances out of the bullpen. 8 starts is what a #7 SP typically gets in a season.

[M.E.]

Bauer cleared. Jays trade for him? I would love to see him round out the staff and considering the salary his prospect capital shouldn’t be crazy.

[Spanky99]

Bauer cleared. Jays trade for him? I would love to see him round out the staff and considering the salary his prospect capital shouldn’t be crazy.

 

Why not just sign him, Dodgers are releasing him? *pipe-dream*

[Stangstag]

Yeah he’s the swing man. He struggled after the deal so everyone thinks he is garbage. It’s natural I get it, but lots of players struggle after trades. s***, Strip was useless for a year and a half.

 

Exactly my point

[connorp]

Why not just sign him, Dodgers are releasing him? *pipe-dream*

 

If they tried it, some sjw on Twitter would say they were cutting their cable, a couple retweets later and the whole deal would be off SF style.

[Carlos Danger]

I went through 6 of the top AL teams. They all have a pitcher better than White to step in if one of the starting 5 goes down.

 

Jays need to add a Kluber, Wacha, or other similar type, so that White doesn't get 20-22 starts, but more like 6-7.

 

Jim is right on this one.

 

Some serious revisionist history going on. Last year I said I didn’t like our pitching depth and I was arrogantly laughed out of the room and told, “bad take Carlos, etc”, the staff is one of best in the league etc. Now a bunch of you are saying it was obvious last year.

 

The starting 4 is better than last year, but we still need “solid” depth. Just because some other teams don’t have solid guys for 5 and 6 doesn’t mean we should not. We need to improve and be better then last year in as many facets as possible. Just plugging guys in to fill holes does not go toward the objective. I hope we land more solid pitching.

[Spanky99]

Jim is right on this one.

 

Some serious revisionist history going on. Last year I said I didn’t like our pitching depth and I was arrogantly laughed out of the room and told, “bad take Carlos, etc”, the staff is one of best in the league etc. Now a bunch of you are saying it was obvious last year.

 

The starting 4 is better than last year, but we still need “solid” depth. Just because some other teams don’t have solid guys for 5 and 6 doesn’t mean we should not. We need to improve and be better then last year in as many facets as possible. Just plugging guys in to fill holes does not go toward the objective. I hope we land more solid pitching.

 

Link please?

[Carlos Danger]

Link please?

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/10277-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Roster-Discussion-(2022)/page2?highlight=roster+2022

 

Starts post #22

 

Deadpool says “nonsense” . Not surprised by the fake Deadpool since he exists on post count, not post quality. Stanstag- LOL What!! Grant being Grant, the rest is self evident.

 

Almost like Deje vu…..

 

Then again questioning the pen in post # 51….

Edited December 23, 2022 by Carlos Danger