General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Pendleton]

That closes out the Stroman trade correct? No one left, no one worth a s*** anymore….

 

Simeon Woods- Richardson was dealt to the Twins as part of the Berrios deal, so the trade tree would technically still be alive

[Ehjays]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/al-east-notes-blue-jays-catchers-yoshida-red-sox.html

 

Blue Jays’ Catchers, Yoshida, Red Sox

By Simon Hampton | December 17, 2022 at 11:11am CDT

 

All off-season it’s seemed a matter of when not if the Blue Jays trade one of their three catchers – Alejandro Kirk, Danny Jansen and Gabriel Moreno. According to Mark Feinsand of MLB.com, the Blue Jays were open to trading Jansen to bring in a starting pitcher, but after landing Chris Bassitt on a three-year, $63MM deal Feinsand reports that a trade is no certainty now.

 

In any event, Toronto is in a strong negotiating position as there’s a few paths they could go down. The clear top two free agent options – Willson Contreras and Christian Vazquez – are off the board, while the Braves have acquired Sean Murphy, making the Blue Jays the clear and obvious fit for any catcher-hungry teams. They could also opt to carry three catchers on the active roster, cycling players through the DH spot, or option Moreno back to Triple-A and go with a Kirk-Jansen tandem to begin the year at least.

 

The additions of Bassitt to the rotation and Kevin Kiermaier to the outfield decrease the clear needs for the Blue Jays to address this winter, but in a competitive AL East, it wouldn’t be surprising to see them ultimately opt to pursue further upgrades, whether via trade or free agency. As Jon Heyman of the New York Post notes, the Jays were finalists for Masataka Yoshida (the Dodgers were the other finalist) before he signed for the Red Sox. It’s not clear whether the Kiermaier signing arose because they missed out on Yoshida, or whether they tried to sign both, but given the former’s injury history and declining production it wouldn’t be a surprise to see them seek another outfielder.

[Jimcanuck]

As far as catchers go, no one seems interested in poor Gary Sanchez.

[G-Snarls]

As far as catchers go, no one seems interested in poor Gary Sanchez.

 

He should just move to 1B and make the most of it. Sign a 1 year deal with a non contender and try to prove his bat is worth it. Oh, and strike out less.

[Jimcanuck]

He should just move to 1B and make the most of it. Sign a 1 year deal with a non contender and try to prove his bat is worth it. Oh, and strike out less.

 

How good is he at picks?

[G-Snarls]

How good is he at picks?

 

No Idea

 

And as a catcher it's what he was worst at

[Ehjays]

This is a Cubs MiLB writer, suggesting a trade Cubs send Happ for Jansen and Ryu/Kikuchi. Lol

 

[Stangstag]

This is a Cubs MiLB writer, suggesting a trade Cubs send Happ for Jansen and Ryu/Kikuchi. Lol

 

 

Lol this is dumb. I floated the idea of a Happ/Jansen trade, but that’s an overpay on our side. Tbh Jansen+Ryu for Happ + something could be interesting.

[Jonn]

Would love Happ for this lineup for obvious reasons.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Lol this is dumb. I floated the idea of a Happ/Jansen trade, but that’s an overpay on our side. Tbh Jansen+Ryu for Happ + something could be interesting.

 

Agreed....Ryu is near the end of the line and I would like to roll the dice on Kooch to see if he gets corrected.

[Captain_Obvious]

Agreed....Ryu is near the end of the line and I would like to roll the dice on Kooch to see if he gets corrected.

 

I do not see the point of including Ryu to dilute Jansen's return. The saved money will unlikely be used for an upgrade at this point.

[Brownie19]

I do not see the point of including Ryu to dilute Jansen's return. The saved money will unlikely be used for an upgrade at this point.

 

yeah - you'd need to to have a plan to spend that money. If you were trading Jansen and Ryu for Happ and then signing Eovaldi and/or Rogers - I could understand that (although that would be more of a short term move). However, I'd REALLY prefer to add a young/affordable OFer if we are trading a catcher.

[Ehjays]

[Laika]

 

Siddall kind of out to lunch here.

 

The only reason Kirk "doesn't catch enough" is just because Jansen has always been here.

 

They could and would absolutely run with Kirk and Moreno. If Moreno flops or one of them gets hurt, they'd insure it with some crusty veteran on a minor league deal; no big problem.

[Jonn]

I like the idea of keeping all 3 Catchers if you aren’t getting the type of return you should be getting.

 

Moreno doesn’t need to start the year in the Majors. He didn’t exactly break the door down to begin with. The depth will likely benefit us greatly. And a good trade can always materialize down the road.

 

I have zero faith Kirk holding up as a full time Catcher. Unless he makes a dramatic commitment to the body.

[Laika]

I want Moreno playing every day in the big leagues

 

he's the kind of bat that would be boring but just put up a quiet 120 wRC+ as a rookie.

[Captain_Obvious]

I want Moreno playing every day in the big leagues

 

he's the kind of bat that would be boring but just put up a quiet 120 wRC+ as a rookie.

 

Moreno will get his chance. But if the team does not get a good trade return for one of the catchers now, having another year of control of Moreno while he works on acing the AAA test is not the worst outcome.

[Laika]

I think it's pretty bad for Moreno. When a guy hits .315/.386 in AAA the thing to do, to maximize their development, is present the next challenge to them.

 

This is precisely what Toronto did with Kirk. When he showed he could hit minor league pitching in his sleep, they brought him up.

[Jimcanuck]

The team is far better constructed if one of the C is moved to strengthen the team elsewhere.

 

There are plenty of potential trade partners. Marlins (for pitching) and D'Backs (for OF) in particular.

[jerb]

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

#Bluejays GM Ross Atkins just met the media ahead of our availability with Chris Bassitt. He’s very excited about his newest pitcher:

 

“The arsenal is unique & dynamic. There aren’t too many pitchers in the game who can say concretely that they have seven weapons, if not more.”

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

Atkins: “Early on, we identified (Bassitt) as a significant potential addition for us.”

 

“You could argue (#Bluejays rotation is) top-5. We think it is. We’ll continue to think about ways to improve it.”

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

Atkins said #Bluejays have been concentrating on run prevention to this point in the off-season with Kiermaier, Bassitt and Swanson. “Now we’ll shift to offensive improvement” which is likely to come in the form of one left-handed hitter who can play the outfield.

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

Atkins: “The market for catching remains exceptionally strong and we feel like we’re in a position of strength.”

Added #Bluejays don’t feel as though they have to trade a catcher.

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

Atkins said that Cavan Biggio hasn’t been talked about enough this off-season. “Biggio is going to be huge for us (in 2023) with his versatility.” #Bluejays

 

Mike Wilner

@Wilnerness

 

And finally, for the trolls.

Atkins: “We have one of the best bullpens in baseball at this point, certainly from a depth perspective. It’s top-5 in our point of view.”

 

From my perspective, #Bluejays bullpen is quite strong with Romano, Yimbo, Mayza, Swanson, Cimber up front.

[jerb]

 

Rob Longley

@longleysunsport

 

I asked Ross Atkins about the fifth spot in the rotation: "We're excited about a bounce back (with) Kikuchi as well as having Mitch White on board and having some prospects that are exciting." #Bluejays

[Captain_Obvious]

I think it's pretty bad for Moreno. When a guy hits .315/.386 in AAA the thing to do, to maximize their development, is present the next challenge to them.

 

This is precisely what Toronto did with Kirk. When he showed he could hit minor league pitching in his sleep, they brought him up.

 

There is still room to get better for Moreno. He should probably be in the majors, but if him being in the minors for half a season means we get a much better return for one of the catchers, then so be it.

[keggy]

If you go back exactly 12 months, people were having the exact same conversations about trading Kirk or Jansen so Moreno isn't wasted at AAA. Some people had him pencilled in as our starting 3B before we got Chapman.

 

I think he's ready to play in the big leagues, but don't assume he'll be an MVP candidate right away like we did last year.

[Terminator]

 

What in the hell is he talking about? A Kirk and Moreno tandem isn't good enough? Lol it would be a Top 5 catching tandem in the league, maybe THE top catching tandem. Kirk and whatever MLB bum or Moreno and whatever MLB by themselves would probably Top 10.

[Jimcanuck]

.... or Moreno and whatever MLB by themselves would probably Top 10.

 

Slim possibility. Moreno is likely similar to Keibert in his first full season.

[Stangstag]

What in the hell is he talking about? A Kirk and Moreno tandem isn't good enough? Lol it would be a Top 5 catching tandem in the league, maybe THE top catching tandem. Kirk and whatever MLB bum or Moreno and whatever MLB by themselves would probably Top 10.

 

Just to play devil’s advocate here, I think a lot of us maybe underestimate the value of game-calling and starters having rapport with the staff. Maybe Kirk can’t catch more than like twice a week. Maybe the team isn’t comfortable with having a rookie catcher (Moreno) getting the majority of starts in a contending year.

 

On paper, Kirk/Moreno is an excellent duo but maybe there’s an aspect that can’t quantified that we are overlooking. Siddall has more catching experience than all of us combined and he’s with the team daily.

[Jonn]

The team is far better constructed if one of the C is moved to strengthen the team elsewhere.

 

There are plenty of potential trade partners. Marlins (for pitching) and D'Backs (for OF) in particular.

 

Just because there’s options doesn’t mean teams want to trade them for the Jays catchers. You can’t force a trade that’s not there.

[Jonn]

Also Atkins saying the Jays have a Top 5 Bullpen is comical at best. I think its 2 significant relievers away at a minimum. And I’m concerned if there’s no other plan to add. They basically added Swanson to last years pen.

[Laika]

Also Atkins saying the Jays have a Top 5 Bullpen is comical at best. I think its 2 significant relievers away at a minimum. And I’m concerned if there’s no other plan to add. They basically added Swanson to last years pen.

 

"from a depth perspective"

 

I don't think he meant they have a top 5 pen. Just one of the deeper bullpens. It's true, honestly.

[Jimcanuck]

Just because there’s options doesn’t mean teams want to trade them for the Jays catchers. You can’t force a trade that’s not there.

 

lol, thanks coach