General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Brownie19]

I normally agree with you... But, you want to go to war next year with the same guys that sucked this year? Kickuchi, Richards, Kay etc... Look at our deadline aquistions... Pop is in the minors, Bass is fine if he doesn't pitch late inning pressure sitiations... Merifield really has not moved the needle yet... We had a career year form Espinal.. Is that what he is or is he going to regress... I just don't see what will make a difference next year from this year?

 

Everyone said last year we will be great this year since we will have a full year of Kirk, Manoha, Cimber, Richards etc... We need to do something to make this team more consistent.... What is our longest winning streak this year? We need to find a way to get all cylinders firing at once. If we have the pitching we don't have hitting and vice versa, if the SPs are doing well the BP is not etc... The Team's depth IMO is an issue. We can only be good for short spurts... Actually bodes well in the playoffs, if we make it!?

 

What are you smoking?

[Brownie19]

I get its hard to argue with those numbers but I'll take a stab at it lol. There is an ease to pitching to a line with impact bats that all hit RH. A repetition and rhythm. Top rights handers with V and good breaking ball they can locate carve us up. (They do to everyone especially us. We'll see this in the playoffs). I don't know how many good pitchers I've heard interviewed this year who said this is a big Jays weakness this year, based on their experience. This year Jays are hitting s*** against LHP in part because nobody throws them much for obvious reasons. At one point 1/3 of the way through the season it was was at an historic low since the 20s the number they faced.

 

I posted Bo is down 100 wRC+ points last time I looked vs LHP this year a couple days ago. It was over 150 '21. No wonder we see so few in '22 and when we do we suck. Same weird thing nobody could explain happened in '15 to that team so they brought in Valencia. Hard to explain.

 

We have a good offence as the numbers show. It could be even better with some LH impact balance. Its in part why this FO tried and failed to land Ramirez & Brantley

 

I don't watch sports interviews for obvious reasons, but can you tell me which pitchers have gone on record claiming the Jays big weakness is the lack of a LH bat? Are you referring to actual current pitchers? or retired pitchers on the broadcast and/or MLB network? At the end of the day, this team has the 4th highest wRC+ in all of baseball this year and the 3rd highest wRC+ v. RHP.

 

Would the lineup be 'better' if it had a couple of left handed stars in it? Yes, I'm sure it could be - but the lack of good left handed batters in this lineup has to be near the bottom of list of worries about this team. jaysblue can claim the Jays only beat up on s***** RHP who should be in the minors, but FFS, you aren't 3rd in the MLB v. RHP if that's the only righties you can hit. The reality is that MOST (all?) teams suck v. the best pitchers and beat up on s***** pitchers.

[jaysblue]

Yeah next year is a big year. The only significant FA is Stripling so the team will be in pretty good shape. The bullpen was largely fixed this deadline and we've got a good crop of MLB starting pitching (Gausman, Manoah, Berrios, Mitch White, Kikuchi under contract is a good start) and the minor leagues are likely to provide some depth too (Tiedemann and Zululeta in AAA). The lineup is already set and even the bench looks like it's in pretty good shape with 2 WAR guys like Merrifield and Biggio there along with whatever backup C ends up there.

 

We obviously will need more SP but there isn't a whole lot of glaring holes that will need fixed.

 

I agree, don't think much needs to be done in terms of a shakeup. Just some tinkering here and there focusing on upgrades and providing roster depth.

 

Another #2-3 starter would be nice insurance in case Berrios doesn't find his old form. Even if Berrios does find his old form, that's a solid Top 4 to go with White, Kikuchi, Tiedemann, Zulu for the No. 5 spot and some depth. You can never have enough pitching during a 162 game season.

 

I still think its a middle of the road bullpen. They've made some solid adds at the deadline with Bass and Pop who both will be around for next season. If they could add an elite reliever, I think that would go along way. If it only costs money, do it. Again, I'm all for signing an elite reliever to BJ Ryan money if he's really good. Like we both agreed, 2023 is crucial. Plus, lets hope the Blue Jays get lucky with one of Pearson or Merryweather, though again they shouldn't just stand pat and think one of them can turn elite and problem solved.

 

I still think adding another LH bat to this lineup would go along way as well. Atkins and Co. tried getting Ramirez and Brantley, so you know he even realized getting another LH bat was necessary.

 

Overall, they are set well up for 2023, though they need to tinker and make some upgrades. Standing pat with the same roster won't do anything or move the needle. They can't let 2023 go to waste.

[Laika]

I get its hard to argue with those numbers but I'll take a stab at it lol. There is an ease to pitching to a line with impact bats that all hit RH. A repetition and rhythm. Top rights handers with V and good breaking ball they can locate carve us up. (They do to everyone especially us. We'll see this in the playoffs). I don't know how many good pitchers I've heard interviewed this year who said this is a big Jays weakness this year, based on their experience. This year Jays are hitting s*** against LHP in part because nobody throws them much for obvious reasons. At one point 1/3 of the way through the season it was was at an historic low since the 20s the number they faced.

 

I posted Bo is down 100 wRC+ points last time I looked vs LHP this year a couple days ago. It was over 150 '21. No wonder we see so few in '22 and when we do we suck. Same weird thing nobody could explain happened in '15 to that team so they brought in Valencia. Hard to explain.

 

We have a good offence as the numbers show. It could be even better with some LH impact balance. Its in part why this FO tried and failed to land Ramirez & Brantley

 

I think they should have more balance ideally and I would not expect the numbers to be the same moving forward

 

But I see tons of people blaming the 2022 issues on the lack of an impact LHB and that's just asinine really. Like, it's dumb. There is no connection. There is a logical disconnect.

[Laika]

Do you have examples? Verlander and Cole, two of the top guys I can think of have pitched poorly against this lineup.

 

Anecdotes mean nothing anyway

 

You'd have to look at the entire sample. Some type of analysis like "RHP with plus breaking balls" or "RHB with plus velocity" vs Toronto

 

They are #3 against RHP this year so I assume they do well against every sample of RHP.

 

From time to time a rookie or random RHP holds them at bay and that is frustrating and plays into certain narratives but... that happens to every team.

[Carlos Danger]

What are you smoking?

 

Go look at his 6th inning through 9th and extra inning splits. There is a reason he lost the closer role in Miami. What inning was he pitching in Saturday when it was a 1-0 game and he gave up a HR? He is great for 6-7th inning.. Serviceable for the 8th, but his numbers start to dive..

[jaysblue]

I don't watch sports interviews for obvious reasons, but can you tell me which pitchers have gone on record claiming the Jays big weakness is the lack of a LH bat? Are you referring to actual current pitchers? or retired pitchers on the broadcast and/or MLB network? At the end of the day, this team has the 4th highest wRC+ in all of baseball this year and the 3rd highest wRC+ v. RHP.

 

Would the lineup be 'better' if it had a couple of left handed stars in it? Yes, I'm sure it could be - but the lack of good left handed batters in this lineup has to be near the bottom of list of worries about this team. jaysblue can claim the Jays only beat up on s***** RHP who should be in the minors, but FFS, you aren't 3rd in the MLB v. RHP if that's the only righties you can hit. The reality is that MOST (all?) teams suck v. the best pitchers and beat up on s***** pitchers.

 

At the end of the day, this team will be fighting tooth and nail to make the Postseason from the looks of it despite being 3rd and 4th in wRC+ in those categories against RHP and in all of baseball. So tell me what's wrong? They can't afford to get swept by the Angels at this point in the season. If they played better earlier on instead of most Blue Jays homers and Mike Wilner's on here saying its still early and there's nothing to worry about, you wouldn't be in this position right now.

 

Of course most teams hit well against s***** arms and struggle against top starters. Even Cole got lit up by the Jays last weekend. How about bullpens in late innings though throwing their top arms at the Jays lineup? How have the Jays bats done late in games against elite RH relievers? If you had some LH balance in the lineup, that forces the opposing teams hand lets say going to a lefty reliever against a LH bat, and then that reliever has to stay in the game for two more outs, both possibly against a RH bat. A LH bat would be a nice add during the offseason for this team. You have to tinker with the roster and not leave it as is, when what didn't work the first time likely won't work again in 2023. And like I said numerous times, 2023 is such a crucial season and probably the best season for the Blue Jays to win a World Series. They can't waste that opportunity by keeping the status quo.

[Laika]

"it would be nice to have a big LHB"

 

sure, of course

 

"the Jays are underperforming because they are too right handed"

 

stfu

[Stangstag]

Go look at his 6th inning through 9th and extra inning splits. There is a reason he lost the closer role in Miami. What inning was he pitching in Saturday when it was a 1-0 game and he gave up a HR? He is great for 6-7th inning.. Serviceable for the 8th, but his numbers start to dive..

 

Did you just completely miss his outings against the Redsox last week? Bass is far better than Cimber, who has been regularly giving up at least a run per outing for the last few weeks in close games

[Jonn]

Jays reclaimed Zimmer lmao

[Stangstag]

Zimmer claimed off waivers lol

[Jays24]

Haha Zimmer back. I assume it'll be with the minor league squad where he should stay until he learns how to hit.

[wilko]

[jerb]

 

Blake Murphy

@BlakeMurphyODC

 

Ross Atkins says Bradley Zimmer will take the extra position player spot when rosters expand.

 

There will be a reliever added with roster expansion, too.

 

Pearson doing live throwing Wed, game action would be next. (So a bit away still.)

 

Merryweather keeps looking good.

[Stangstag]

 

Blake Murphy

@BlakeMurphyODC

 

Ross Atkins says Bradley Zimmer will take the extra position player spot when rosters expand.

 

There will be a reliever added with roster expansion, too.

 

Pearson doing live throwing Wed, game action would be next. (So a bit away still.)

 

Merryweather keeps looking good.

 

This front office really can’t let go eh. Drafted Zimmer like 10 years ago, he’s sucked the entire time yet they still choose to roster him.

[John_Havok]

This front office really can’t let go eh. Drafted Zimmer like 10 years ago, he’s sucked the entire time yet they still choose to roster him.

 

If all he as to do is run and defend.... great! He's batter than Tapia at both

[Brownie19]

At the end of the day, this team will be fighting tooth and nail to make the Postseason from the looks of it despite being 3rd and 4th in wRC+ in those categories against RHP and in all of baseball. So tell me what's wrong? They can't afford to get swept by the Angels at this point in the season. If they played better earlier on instead of most Blue Jays homers and Mike Wilner's on here saying its still early and there's nothing to worry about, you wouldn't be in this position right now.

 

Of course most teams hit well against s***** arms and struggle against top starters. Even Cole got lit up by the Jays last weekend. How about bullpens in late innings though throwing their top arms at the Jays lineup? How have the Jays bats done late in games against elite RH relievers? If you had some LH balance in the lineup, that forces the opposing teams hand lets say going to a lefty reliever against a LH bat, and then that reliever has to stay in the game for two more outs, both possibly against a RH bat. A LH bat would be a nice add during the offseason for this team. You have to tinker with the roster and not leave it as is, when what didn't work the first time likely won't work again in 2023. And like I said numerous times, 2023 is such a crucial season and probably the best season for the Blue Jays to win a World Series. They can't waste that opportunity by keeping the status quo.

 

Man - I'm done engaging with you. Laika summed it up nicely.

[G-Snarls]

So we're going to have all of:

 

Gurriel

Hernandez

Springer

Bradley Jr

Tapia

Zimmer

 

on the roster for the stretch? I kind of wish we had one more good bench option I guess cause those last three are all very incomplete players.

[John_Havok]

I think the issues with the Jays are process related. Like, there's no overall problem with hitting against RHP, but there are definitely key times where you would want to be able to bring in a Lefty off the bench to force a change on the mound where you might get the advantage for the next two hitters after the lefty. Those situations come up more often than we really think, but may not show up as drastic differences in wRC+ in the lineup over the full season.

 

That said, there's so many 1-offs that are screwing the Jays over. Bo is hitting lefties like absolute s*** this year, when his career numbers are completely opposite. That's a thing that can rear it's ugly head in key moments of games. Ditto his defense that overall seems to be better on the season as a whole, but when he makes a mistake it's a guarantee that it costs the team runs.

 

Simple plays like fielding a bunt down the first base line and not looking to both 3rd and 2nd before throwing late to 1st (like wtf Vlad.. that was just so dumb ...), baserunning blunders that run themselves out of scoring position, or plays in the outfield like Teo over the weekend where he's basically given up on a ball and it hits the wall at head height 5 feet to his right when he clearly thinks it gone... bad plate appraoches that you just have no idea what the batter is looking for and he flails away at balls well outside the zone when there's guys on base instead of keyholing a location.

 

The problem with the JAys is not talent, it's 100% between the ears. Espinal thought he became a slugger and forgot how to use the entire field. Vlad's oppo power is gone and cant seem to get balls in the air anymore. Teo has torrid stretches of mashing baseballs then goes beyond cold for a week where it looks like he has no idea what sport he's playing. Lourdes, the opposite of Vlad, has finally found out how to use the opposite field and now couldnt pull a ball for power if his life depended on it. Tapia just straight sucks and has dreadlocks for brains.

 

The team is either red hot, or ice cold. That solid floor of consistency is absent. Over a season, the hot streaks might be slightly longer than the cold streaks as we've seen so far. If the Jays get into the wildcard, its 50/50 if they steamroll their opposition or get shut out 2 straight and go home.

[John_Havok]

So we're going to have all of:

 

Gurriel

Hernandez

Springer

Bradley Jr

Tapia

Zimmer

 

on the roster for the stretch? I kind of wish we had one more good bench option I guess cause those last three are all very incomplete players.

 

Tapia should just be punted into the sun. He's worse defensively than both Zimmer and JBJ, his baserunning ability doesnt set him apart from them and his offense is brutal. I'd rather roll with JBJ and Zimmer and just get rid of Tapia altogether.

[keggy]

 

Blake Murphy

@BlakeMurphyODC

 

Ross Atkins says Bradley Zimmer will take the extra position player spot when rosters expand.

 

There will be a reliever added with roster expansion, too.

 

Pearson doing live throwing Wed, game action would be next. (So a bit away still.)

 

Merryweather keeps looking good.

 

The pecking order for me is Pop > Merryweather > Saucedo. As far as I'm concerned Pearson is out for the season with mono until proven otherwise.

[John_Havok]

The pecking order for me is Pop > Merryweather > Saucedo. As far as I'm concerned Pearson is out for the season with mono until proven otherwise.

 

I get that, but if bringing up Pop meatn losing Merryweather, when you could bring up Merryweather and keep both... isnt it smarter to do that until Merryweather's next injury?

[Krylian]

This front office really can’t let go eh. Drafted Zimmer like 10 years ago, he’s sucked the entire time yet they still choose to roster him.

 

Bradley Herpes. Just can't get rid of him.

[Captain_Obvious]

Can someone please let me know why my most recent post was deleted? Which rules were violated?

[Stangstag]

Oh no… the dreaded Red uniforms today

[Stangstag]

I think the issues with the Jays are process related. Like, there's no overall problem with hitting against RHP, but there are definitely key times where you would want to be able to bring in a Lefty off the bench to force a change on the mound where you might get the advantage for the next two hitters after the lefty. Those situations come up more often than we really think, but may not show up as drastic differences in wRC+ in the lineup over the full season.

 

That said, there's so many 1-offs that are screwing the Jays over. Bo is hitting lefties like absolute s*** this year, when his career numbers are completely opposite. That's a thing that can rear it's ugly head in key moments of games. Ditto his defense that overall seems to be better on the season as a whole, but when he makes a mistake it's a guarantee that it costs the team runs.

 

Simple plays like fielding a bunt down the first base line and not looking to both 3rd and 2nd before throwing late to 1st (like wtf Vlad.. that was just so dumb ...), baserunning blunders that run themselves out of scoring position, or plays in the outfield like Teo over the weekend where he's basically given up on a ball and it hits the wall at head height 5 feet to his right when he clearly thinks it gone... bad plate appraoches that you just have no idea what the batter is looking for and he flails away at balls well outside the zone when there's guys on base instead of keyholing a location.

 

The problem with the JAys is not talent, it's 100% between the ears. Espinal thought he became a slugger and forgot how to use the entire field. Vlad's oppo power is gone and cant seem to get balls in the air anymore. Teo has torrid stretches of mashing baseballs then goes beyond cold for a week where it looks like he has no idea what sport he's playing. Lourdes, the opposite of Vlad, has finally found out how to use the opposite field and now couldnt pull a ball for power if his life depended on it. Tapia just straight sucks and has dreadlocks for brains.

 

The team is either red hot, or ice cold. That solid floor of consistency is absent. Over a season, the hot streaks might be slightly longer than the cold streaks as we've seen so far. If the Jays get into the wildcard, its 50/50 if they steamroll their opposition or get shut out 2 straight and go home.

 

Hard to argue with anything you said here, pretty much nailed it

[jaysblue]

Man - I'm done engaging with you. Laika summed it up nicely.

 

Keep sipping some Mike Wilner kool aid bud! You're the biggest homer on this board and you can't even engage in a discussion when it comes to a view that criticizes this front office. It's getting to the point of cringe with you!

[gruber92]

Zimmer opposed to Moreno is f***ing ludicrous.

[Carlos Danger]

Did you just completely miss his outings against the Redsox last week? Bass is far better than Cimber, who has been regularly giving up at least a run per outing for the last few weeks in close games

 

Bass pitched 0.2 IP in the Saturday's game against the Red Sox and gave up a BB. In the Sunday's game, he pitched in the 7th, 1 inning and gave up 2 hits and a BB.

 

So, 1.2 IPs and 2 hits and 2 BB. Hall of Fame here I come. I said he was fine/good for the 6th and 7th...Don't make it out like he is late inning filth.

[Laika]

I am done analyzing this team or even thinking about them until they go on a streak

 

I think they are just a bunch of losers basically

 

Mental midgets