General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[RustyTrombone]

I know what the team is lacking. A certain ex blue jay catcher turned manager turned broadcaster with a magnificant white mane will lead the Jays to the promise land after overcoming his battle with cancer!

[Eat My Shatkins]

I was excited because they basically had this entire team locked up for this season and next.

 

Now I'm wondering if big changes need to be made.

[Dagagad]

I was excited because they basically had this entire team locked up for this season and next.

 

Now I'm wondering if big changes need to be made.

 

Big changes need to be made in the front office.

[Stangstag]

I was excited because they basically had this entire team locked up for this season and next.

 

Now I'm wondering if big changes need to be made.

 

We’ll know by the end of the season where they stand

[Stangstag]

Anyone else feel like maybe someone from the core group of jokesters needs to go?

 

Vlad-Teo-Gurriel-Springer

 

Obviously Vlad is staying, Springer is signed long-term, so that leaves Teo/Gurriel.

 

Would the team benefit from trying a bit of a retool at the deadline just to shake things up and give the guys a bit of a wake up call?

 

Thinking to trade one of Gurriel/Teo for pitching and then trade a prospect for a corner OF, preferably a lefty.

[Dagagad]

Anyone else feel like maybe someone from the core group of jokesters needs to go?

 

Vlad-Teo-Gurriel-Springer

 

Obviously Vlad is staying, Springer is signed long-term, so that leaves Teo/Gurriel.

 

Would the team benefit from trying a bit of a retool at the deadline just to shake things up and give the guys a bit of a wake up call?

 

Thinking to trade one of Gurriel/Teo for pitching and then trade a prospect for a corner OF, preferably a lefty.

 

I would absolutely trade gurriel or teo but more because of control than anything. I think teo is the one because gurriel is so cheap.

 

Needs to be a good deal though. Best value. Not necessarily just for immediate help in pitching. We can always trade prospects for that.

 

It depends on how bad we are at the deadline though. We might need them.

[Terminator]

How do the Yankees always seem to discover/acquire high leverage lockdown bullpen arms that can miss bats?

 

Constantly in contention so the bullpen is always a focus. The payroll also allows them to sign Gerrit Cole and Rizzo and trade Cooper and Smith for guys like King. Then they can also sign Chapman and Britton, etc.

 

Now that the Jays are in contention they’ll start working on the bullpen.

[Miya30]

Guys relax it’s a long season. There is nothing wrong with the core, no need to split it up right now. This team is only a few tweaks from turning it around. I agree 100% getting rid of Montoyo sooner then later would be best for this team. Anyone who has ever played on championship teams knows it starts with a great manager or coach. Raptors are the prime example of Nick Nurse being able to get the most out of what he has to work with. Players believe and will do what it takes for him. I don’t know what this front office is afraid of to make a change. I would be fine with giving Schneider given a chance to run with it. Montoyo is not a gamer, he’s a very good rebuild/developing manager, but not a championship manager. Smartest thing the front office could do right now is make change a with Montoyo and go from there. Yes bullpen help as well, but make the easy change first that everyone else can see.

[Ehjays]

I will say this though, Baltimore is 3 behind us, If they pass us some heads are gonna roll.

[Krylian]

I will say this though, Baltimore is 3 behind us, If they pass us some heads are gonna roll.

 

Lol. Holy s***. I didn't even look at Baltimore's record... Haven't in years. That would be an epic failure.

[BlueJaysFever]

Montoyo may or may not be an okay manager. Manager impact is overrated anyways unless there are egregious errors being made constantly.

 

The team seems to have had a lot of things go wrong lately and it’s making things look far worse than they are. To lose Gausman even for a few starts is devastating. Berrios pitching some of the worst games of his career? Kikuchi being a disaster and having to be phantom IL’ed is another knock. This bad run of 25 games or so has exposed that lack of depth. And inevitably as most teams have their swings, with the bats slumping like it’s April again in the midst of a tight WC race we’re watching some of the worst Jays baseball of the season.

 

Assuming health and at least fixing the pitching depth by August 2nd, they are primed to go on a heater as RISP numbers like they’ve had lately will turn around. the best teams don’t have the best RISP % because they put a lot of runners on base. I think the Yankees and Astros among others are in the bottom third.

 

I definitely have concerns about this team, I feel like I’d be blind otherwise but I’m still reasonably optimistic about their abilities.

[RobinThicc]

Even tho Montoyo sucks, this really sits on the players. Just huge lack of execution from the offense when you need it most lately, and the pitching for the most part has been a gong show.

[Krylian]

Even tho Montoyo sucks, this really sits on the players. Just huge lack of execution from the offense when you need it most lately, and the pitching for the most part has been a gong show.

 

The construction of the pen is on management. Yes, Bongos' use of the pen can leave something to be desired, but it's not like he's got some tremendous weapons that he's misusing.

[Laika]

This "they've been here for 7 years" meme that popped up on the board is annoying.

 

When Shapiro took over the team was in a very awkward place as far as long term success goes. They took one crack at it and it didn't work so they rebuilt for a couple of years.

 

Then Covid hit and the team has been generally good and a winning team the whole time. The division has been it's usual competitive nightmare though

 

The trajectory is fine.

 

Don't overreact in the darkest moments. This could be the nadir of public opinion on the front office. For all we know next week they will bring in two good relievers and everything will be peachy.

 

And Montoyo has been pretty good this year let's be honest.

[Benito]

Jays were 11 games above .500, and in 2nd place in the AL east, they'd just gone 4-1 vs the Red Sox and Rays.

 

Come backer off Gausman's foot.

 

Have gone 1-8 since that happened.

 

As bad as this stretch has been, Jays are still only 1.5 behind Boston. Silver lining.

[BlueJaysFever]

This "they've been here for 7 years" meme that popped up on the board is annoying.

 

When Shapiro took over the team was in a very awkward place as far as long term success goes. They took one crack at it and it didn't work so they rebuilt for a couple of years.

 

.

 

I have the same feelings. The pitchforks would have been on full display had they dismantled the 2015 team that had finally done something the org. hadn’t done in over 20 years. They understandably rode that competitive wave. And they had to balance that with a dang near empty prospect cupboard - we see in retrospect that almost none of the highest rated prospects at the time weren’t terribly impactful for any period of time.

 

They’ve managed to turn a graveyard into a competitive MLB team. And it seems like there are a good amount of bullets in the chamber as far as pitchers performing in A/AA ball.

 

On another semi -related note we’re probably going to see Zulueta and Hernandez at some point this season on the 40-man? Both rule 5 eligible I believe.

[Dagagad]

I’ve given this front office credit for things. I love their international scouting, what they look for in hitters. I’m realizing how that I’ve been way to quick to judge on that. Those might have been holdovers from the old regime. How could I give them credit for anything after only 7 years?

 

This is all nonsense. It doesn’t take that long to get really good at pitch dev because other teams have done it in less time. It might be true that we are getting better really slowly behind the scenes and it’s yet to percolate up, but again other teams have done that without having to wait this long.

 

Wait and see only lasts so long. We are good at some things and we are bad at some things, and the things we are bad at can be kind of crucial. We’ll still probably make the playoffs and anyone who can make the playoffs can win. It just means we have to burn more assets and have shorter windows than the smartest teams. That’s fine. We aren’t Arizona or something. I don’t get why we have to pretend otherwise and give this FO so much benefit of the doubt AND full credit for the things they do well.

[Solaxys]

Just put 'this FO sucks at pitching' in your signature and every time you make a post, it'll be there.

You don't need to reiterate the same thing every day. Not even sure why you do it - who are you trying to convince? why?

I get reactionary statements inside the GDT but at this point, you made it your mission to spend every waking breath on this forum chanting the same rhetoric.

 

Even if you get every single person on this sub & reddit to unanimously agree with you, it still will not matter because none of us have the power to resolve the issue you are having.

We are barely a blip in the revenue that Rogers makes that even if we completely avoided Jays from herein, it would not matter.

 

If Rogers thinks Shapiro is making Jays a profitable franchise, then Shapiro will stay.

If Shapiro thinks Atkins is making the right calls, getting the right drafts, going after the right people, then Atkins will stay.

If Atkins thinks the pitching dev is fine, then it'll stay the way it is.

If there is a problem, the changes will happen in the offseason.

 

It is very rare for sweeping changes to happen mid-season, especially in a statistic-driven era.

[Solaxys]

 

Can't be any worse; Castillo is pitching though so something to look forward to.

Chances against Gilbert super low, but never know

[Dagagad]

Just put 'this FO sucks at pitching' in your signature and every time you make a post, it'll be there.

You don't need to reiterate the same thing every day. Not even sure why you do it - who are you trying to convince? why?

I get reactionary statements inside the GDT but at this point, you made it your mission to spend every waking breath on this forum chanting the same rhetoric.

 

Even if you get every single person on this sub & reddit to unanimously agree with you, it still will not matter because none of us have the power to resolve the issue you are having.

We are barely a blip in the revenue that Rogers makes that even if we completely avoided Jays from herein, it would not matter.

 

If Rogers thinks Shapiro is making Jays a profitable franchise, then Shapiro will stay.

If Shapiro thinks Atkins is making the right calls, getting the right drafts, going after the right people, then Atkins will stay.

If Atkins thinks the pitching dev is fine, then it'll stay the way it is.

If there is a problem, the changes will happen in the offseason.

 

It is very rare for sweeping changes to happen mid-season, especially in a statistic-driven era.

 

The game threads will be pretty light if everyone who spends every thread bitching about Montoyo just puts it in their signature instead.

 

Why don’t you go get a start on policing that. Police all the whiny bitches, please. Not just this one.

 

Of course I f***ing understand that Shapiro will decide if atkins is doing a good job. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Solaxys]

The game threads will be pretty light if everyone who spends every thread bitching another Montoyo just puts it in their signature instead.

 

Why donÂ’t you go get a start on policing that.

 

I get reactionary statements inside the GDT

 

Damn dude, can't even read. I should've left you on the ignore list. Back to it.

[Dagagad]

I get reactionary statements inside the GDT

 

Damn dude, can't even read. I should've left you on the ignore list. Back to it.

 

Holy f***ing s***. Please do.

[G-Snarls]

As bad as this stretch has been, Jays are still only 1.5 behind Boston. Silver lining.

 

And the Red Sox really aren't that good

 

Only Yankees and Astros really scare me

[Solaxys]

And the Red Sox really aren't that good

 

Only Yankees and Astros really scare me

 

Going to be an interesting WC race tbh. It seemed like AL East was running away with it but Guardians, WSox, Mariners, Rangers, and now the Os are all in it.

 

3 of those teams are probably going to be buyers; insane market

[BlueJaysFever]

Really looking forward to see Castillo start.

[Daniel Labude]

Really looking forward to see Castillo start.

 

2 innings isn't much of a start

[Eat My Shatkins]

I've been fully petitioning for them let Castillo start some games with Gausman out, but they kept pitching their AAA trash instead.

 

Now that they will finally give him a go I'm expecting him to get slaughtered lol

 

That's how this season seems to be going.

[Jays333]

Is Castillo opening for the bullpen garbage to take over in the 2nd or 3rd or is he actually starting?

[Solaxys]

Is Castillo opening for the bullpen garbage to take over in the 2nd or 3rd or is he actually starting?

 

He was used in game 1, so I am pretty sure there's a pitch-cap for him.

[Omar]

I’ve given this front office credit for things. I love their international scouting, what they look for in hitters. I’m realizing how that I’ve been way to quick to judge on that. Those might have been holdovers from the old regime. How could I give them credit for anything after only 7 years?

 

This is all nonsense. It doesn’t take that long to get really good at pitch dev because other teams have done it in less time. It might be true that we are getting better really slowly behind the scenes and it’s yet to percolate up, but again other teams have done that without having to wait this long.

 

Wait and see only lasts so long. We are good at some things and we are bad at some things, and the things we are bad at can be kind of crucial. We’ll still probably make the playoffs and anyone who can make the playoffs can win. It just means we have to burn more assets and have shorter windows than the smartest teams. That’s fine. We aren’t Arizona or something. I don’t get why we have to pretend otherwise and give this FO so much benefit of the doubt AND full credit for the things they do well.

 

Do you know what goes in to pitching development? How many years? The success rate? First of all, teams don't just decide to get better at pitching development. They don't turn coal into gold. Pitching development is completely dependent on the raw material scouting gives them (Alek Manoah!). The seeds are planted in scouting. Read scouting reports on pitchers before they enter milb, they all look to the same stuff: Velo, Delivery, Secondary pitches, Control, Command, Mound demeanor. Many teams have had the same scouts for years, some turn them over every 5 years or so. Across the league teams have been reducing their scouting departments over the last decade. In the Riccardi era the Jays had something like 35 scouts. When AA came aboard he bumped it to over 55 (he came out of scouting himself) and with Shapiro/Atkins they pared it down to about 50, choosing to go with a balance between statistical analysis and traditional scouting. The depth of scouting (# of scouts) doesn't make you better. Sometimes early scouting pans out and sometimes it doesn't. So every 6 years or so, a team may look like it has s***** scouting or poor scouting based on actualy results at the AA level and higher. If it was 2010 to 2016 you would be saying the Astros don't know how to scout pitching. They do. So do the Jays. Oh and you know who has one of the smallest scouting/development departments in mlb? The Astros, around 18 scouts currently. So when you say other teams "have done it in less time" I don't think you're taking in account all the variables. Do we need better arms? Yes, everyone does. Does our dearth of good arms in the pen doesn't mean we need to overhaul pitching development. No.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Omar