General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Laika]

lmao

[Laika]

Alejandro Kirk has literally never been sick

[Jimcanuck]

What's wrong with his knees?

 

nothing yet, but 95% of short fat guys have bad knees by the age of 30

[John_Havok]

nothing yet, but 95% of short fat guys have bad knees by the age of 30

 

True.

 

But 100% of tall fat guys have bad knees by 30. The short gives him a 5% buffer

[Laika]

nothing yet, but 95% of short fat guys have bad knees by the age of 30

 

not true

[Terminator]

We have a 5'4'' 310 pound Mexican catcher who has red hair. That alone is enough to make him a fan favorite. Throw in the fact that he's the best catcher in baseball at age 23 and you'd think this board would want to put his name on the Level of Excellence already.

 

But no, all you armchair GMs think he's too fat so we should trade him in favor of keeping the guy who gets hurt every 2 weeks and a prospect who is basically the same age and has 1 home run in AAA this year.

[JaysAllMighty]

I like Jansen but if one must to be traded it needs to be him.

[Jimcanuck]

I like Jansen but if one must to be traded it needs to be him.

 

Jansen for Benintendi and some low level prospect

 

Or Kirk for Logan Gilbert

 

What do you like?

 

These are deals out of my ass, just pointing out the ridiculousness of picking one of the three to trade. You make the trade that returns the most value.

[Eat My Shatkins]

No to 2.5 years of Jansen for 0.5 years of Benintendi.

 

They'd have to add a lot more than a low level prospect.

[wilko]

We have a 5'4'' 310 pound Mexican catcher who has red hair. That alone is enough to make him a fan favorite. Throw in the fact that he's the best catcher in baseball at age 23 and you'd think this board would want to put his name on the Level of Excellence already.

 

But no, all you armchair GMs think he's too fat so we should trade him in favor of keeping the guy who gets hurt every 2 weeks and a prospect who is basically the same age and has 1 home run in AAA this year.

 

Lots of racism and body shaming on this board towards the one true Mexican sensation.

[Dagagad]

Jansen for Benintendi and some low level prospect

 

Or Kirk for Logan Gilbert

 

What do you like?

 

These are deals out of my ass, just pointing out the ridiculousness of picking one of the three to trade. You make the trade that returns the most value.

 

TECHNICALLY, that’s true. But we can make suppositions based on what our team has done before and what teams generally value.

 

Usually, teams in our position will deal the least valuable guy. That’s Jansen or Moreno (current value). It’s not Kirk.

 

Sure, if you present a crap value Jansen trade vs a Kirk trade for a guy who could be an ace… thats a different proposition. But wouldn’t our front office just find a better deal for Jansens value?

[Jimcanuck]

No to 2.5 years of Jansen for 0.5 years of Benintendi.

 

They'd have to add a lot more than a low level prospect.

 

As I said those are deals out of my ass. No one should be saying keep Kirk and Moreno, trade Jansen. Or trade Moreno. Who gets traded depends on what other teams offer?

 

Its an awesome situation where at a position of need the Jays can make any of the three available for the right return.

[Eat My Shatkins]

As I said those are deals out of my ass. No one should be saying keep Kirk and Moreno, trade Jansen. Or trade Moreno. Who gets traded depends on what other teams offer?

 

Its an awesome situation where at a position of need the Jays can make any of the three available for the right return.

 

That's fair.

 

If I'm the Jays I'm in no hurry to trade any of them unless someone blows my doors off with an offer I can't say no to.

[Dagagad]

So you would turn down Soto for Kirk because you'd rather move Jansen or Moreno?

 

I wouldn’t turn Soto for Kirk but it also wouldn’t happen.

 

I mean i wouldn’t have turned down ohtani + trout for vlad but I wasn’t sitting twiddling my thumbs last year saying ‘we can trade tellez or vlad based on what offer we get’. I could logically figure out the different values of the players and make guesses based on that. That’s an extreme example but it’s what you are doing.

 

To put this another way. I trust the front office to get fair value. If you present me with a fair value trade for Jansen or one for Kirk, I’d choose Jansen all day every day to go.

[Jimcanuck]

TECHNICALLY, that’s true. But we can make suppositions based on what our team has done before and what teams generally value.

 

Usually, teams in our position will deal the least valuable guy. That’s Jansen or Moreno (current value). It’s not Kirk.

 

Sure, if you present a crap value Jansen trade vs a Kirk trade for a guy who could be an ace… thats a different proposition. But wouldn’t our front office just find a better deal for Jansens value?

 

They could try, but if they can't, and the best deal on the table is for Kirk, you make that deal.

[Laika]

As I said those are deals out of my ass. No one should be saying keep Kirk and Moreno, trade Jansen. Or trade Moreno. Who gets traded depends on what other teams offer?

 

Its an awesome situation where at a position of need the Jays can make any of the three available for the right return.

 

This isn't necessarily true. Like, there isn't probably going to be one obvious trade that is the best. I don't think.

 

Sure, if the offer is obviously the best for one of them then you do it but that's rarely the case.

 

More likely there would be potential deals for all three that seem more or less fair. And it's easier to pull the trigger on the smaller deal, which would be in all likelihood the deal where the least valuable of the three catchers is being traded.

 

Less friction on the smaller deal.

[Dagagad]

This isn't necessarily true. Like, there isn't probably going to be one obvious trade that is the best. I don't think.

 

Sure, if the offer is obviously the best for one of them then you do it but that's rarely the case.

 

More likely there would be potential deals for all three that seem more or less fair. And it's easier to pull the trigger on the smaller deal, which would be in all likelihood the deal where the least valuable of the three catchers is being traded.

 

Less friction on the smaller deal.

 

This. And also, you keep the better players which is good if you are contending.

[Jimcanuck]

This isn't necessarily true. Like, there isn't probably going to be one obvious trade that is the best. I don't think.

 

Sure, if the offer is obviously the best for one of them then you do it but that's rarely the case.

 

More likely there would be potential deals for all three that seem more or less fair. And it's easier to pull the trigger on the smaller deal, which would be in all likelihood the deal where the least valuable of the three catchers is being traded.

 

Less friction on the smaller deal.

 

Yes, in theory one can find equitable value deals for all 3. The problem is the deal also has to match the Jays needs. So if the Jays are seeking an SP and a high leverage RP, for example, that narrows down the potential trading partners and the possible deals that can be made.

 

Theory is fine, in practice somewhat more difficult.

[L54]

BREAKING: Jays FO looking to maximize value of their assets ahead of trade deadline

[John_Havok]

Yes, in theory one can find equitable value deals for all 3. The problem is the deal also has to match the Jays needs. So if the Jays are seeking an SP and a high leverage RP, for example, that narrows down the potential trading partners and the possible deals that can be made.

 

Theory is fine, in practice somewhat more difficult.

 

Interesting targets that are probably very gettable...

 

Benintendi (pure rental, FA after 2022) - LH bat, can play a s***** outfield just like Tapia, except he isn't an embarassment with the bat. Would allow a true DH rotation that doesnt suck the soul out of the batting lineup. Won't be expensive to acquire either.

Bednar (1 more year at League min - then 3 years of Arb left) - Lefty strikeout machine. Tons of control left. No reason not to be ringing Pittsburgh every day to talk trade. Don't wait. DO IT.

Montas (1 year of arb left, FA ater 2023) - because you know Ryu is likely gone for this year and half of next, (I am assuming TJ is coming soon).

 

All three help this year, and 2 of them help beyond this year.

 

No way they could get all 3 of course, but i think 2 of the 3 would be doable.

[Jimcanuck]

Interesting targets that are probably very gettable...

 

Benintendi (pure rental, FA after 2022) - LH bat, can play a s***** outfield just like Tapia, except he isn't an embarassment with the bat. Would allow a true DH rotation that doesnt suck the soul out of the batting lineup. Won't be expensive to acquire either.

Bednar (1 more year at League min - then 3 years of Arb left) - Lefty strikeout machine. Tons of control left. No reason not to be ringing Pittsburgh every day to talk trade. Don't wait. DO IT.

Montas (1 year of arb left, FA ater 2023) - because you know Ryu is likely gone for this year and half of next, (I am assuming TJ is coming soon).

 

All three help this year, and 2 of them help beyond this year.

 

No way they could get all 3 of course, but i think 2 of the 3 would be doable.

 

Matt Boyd would be relatively cheap but could be very effective in a Stripling type of role

[Eat My Shatkins]

Yeah Bednar would be a fricken awesome add

 

I guess Rosenthal was throwing 95-96mph at his showcase the other day. Haven't seen much else reported, hopefully he looked good enough that the Jays are after him.

[Dagagad]

Interesting targets that are probably very gettable...

 

Benintendi (pure rental, FA after 2022) - LH bat, can play a s***** outfield just like Tapia, except he isn't an embarassment with the bat. Would allow a true DH rotation that doesnt suck the soul out of the batting lineup. Won't be expensive to acquire either.

Bednar (1 more year at League min - then 3 years of Arb left) - Lefty strikeout machine. Tons of control left. No reason not to be ringing Pittsburgh every day to talk trade. Don't wait. DO IT.

Montas (1 year of arb left, FA ater 2023) - because you know Ryu is likely gone for this year and half of next, (I am assuming TJ is coming soon).

 

All three help this year, and 2 of them help beyond this year.

 

No way they could get all 3 of course, but i think 2 of the 3 would be doable.

 

Our bullpen was a mess last year and we traded riley Adams, john panik, and tellez to fix it. I don’t see us giving up the kind of prospects that getting bednar would require. It just doesn’t seem to jive with our org philosophy towards the pen. If we do get swing and miss, I think it comes internally, or from a weird source.. like a backend starter whose stuff picks up in the pen.

 

Montas I like and we have quite a few of the near majors prospects the As like. That seems like more of a ‘if one of the top 2 gets injured’ type deal. He seems like he would be expensive and he would be our third or fourth best starter. I think I’d rather find like 2/3 backend starters for cheap just as depth and portential bullpen help.

 

To me, the goal is just to make the playoffs. If the gap at the deadline is closer or we are in a dogfight for the last wild card spot… then I’d think about using better assets.

[gruber92]

Would a Groshans for Montas trade make sense? Is that fair value? Montas is under control for next season also.

[Dagagad]

Would a Groshans for Montas trade make sense? Is that fair value? Montas is under control for next season also.

 

Seems light to me.

[Laika]

Would a Groshans for Montas trade make sense? Is that fair value? Montas is under control for next season also.

 

probably gets you like half way there?

[M.E.]

Would the deal be similar to the Berrios deal?

[Dagagad]

Would the deal be similar to the Berrios deal?

 

They are similar statistically and same amount of control, so probably. Maybe Groshans and Jiminez and two of the older prospects the As like. Or Groshans and Pearson and an older prospect. Those still might be light.

 

They might want to start with martinez.

[Spanky99]

[Stangstag]

 

Above and beyond what any of us ever expected