joey votto or freddie freeman

[hongsw84]

interesting talk going on during off season now

 

they try to rotate guerrero jr as DH ,1b and 3 b

 

now, Joey votto contract is 2 years remaining

 

and freddie freeman wants 6 years contract

 

its going to be good upgrade for jays if get

 

one of them

[lovemyjays]

I'd love either one on this squad. Votto has been underrated & underappreciated for far too long. Bring him home!

[Stangstag]

I think Joey votto will

 

Become a Jays by end of 2022. It make

 

Sense for them. Hometown guy. Let vladdy play

 

Third base.

 

Also sign j ramirez to play second!

Jays will

 

Win the World Series by 3 years guaranteed it!

[L54]

Spring is in the air

[G-Snarls]

Spring is in the air

 

And along with it the smell of Dogg s***

[King]

Todd?

[BlueRocky]

big freddie has good

 

beisbol body and very

 

soft hands that will give

 

tabby very big boner so

 

i choose mr freeman in this

 

scenario, good day

[Terminator]

Get them both and move Vlad to 3rd.

[Jays24]

Neither. Schwarber + Chapman/Ramirez combined will earn less over the next 2 years than Freeman and Votto's just too old to trade anything worthwhile.

 

This also doesn't require you pushing your best player to a different position full time.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Jays24

[Key22]

I said a while back that the Jays could pick up Votto's contract and they're only on the hook for 2 years (3rd is an option) and so you're not stuck with a 6 year Freeman contract. If the Jays are also able to pick up the remaining Moustakas contract - if you think last year was due to his injuries and there is some future life left then you solve your left-handed bat issues and you have a guy who can play second and third. With a better line-up there is more protection for them.

 

Ideally to take those contracts you also get Castillo. I am of the view that you still upgrade the pitching wherever you can.

 

 

Castillo

Votto ($25m 2022, $25m 2023, $20m or $7m buyout in 2024) Votto may make us pick up the option to waive his no trade.

Moustakas ($16m in 2022, $18m in 2023, $20m or $4m buyiout in 2024) -1WAR last year.

 

Taking on $41m, $43m, $40m or $11m buyout.

 

Similar to the Twins dumping Donaldson they had to give up a GG-winning shortstop in Falefa and also take a bad contract in Sanchez back. No big prospects are involved.

 

So if the Jays can absorb two big contracts they may be able to ship Grichuck ($26m going back over 2 years) back and a few good prospects but maybe not the Mareno or Orelvis tier.

 

Maybe you send them a starting package around Groshans and Biggio + 2 lotto picks if they take Grichuk - if not then no Groshans sort of thing - maybe he is replaced by someone out of the top 20 Jays prospects.

[Laika]

Yeah hard pass on Votto and Moose.

 

I love Votto but have no interest in his contract

[Key22]

Yeah hard pass on Votto and Moose.

 

I love Votto but have no interest in his contract

 

 

But I would perhaps look at it as overall money instead of individual contracts. Castillo would arguably be the ace of our staff and he has three years of arbitration control left. The guy is pretty elite. So you now have a rotation of

 

Castillo

Berrios

Gausman

Manoah

Kikuchi/Ryu

Stripling/Pearson.

 

That rotation covers inevitable injuries and offers significant depth.

 

Votto is still putting up excellent numbers 3.5 WAR and a .938OPS with 36 bombs so he's still worth his contract.

 

Moose is the iffy contract but if they take Grichuck back then the salary add here is $6m and $8m (the contract difference) so this looks much better to me. And our lineup will force more pitchers to pitch to these guys.

 

If Moose sucks who cares - Grichuk sucks. So we're kind of already eating $10m now.

[BTS]

Votto is still owed 57M (25+25+7 buyout). Cincinnati would probably have to eat like 25M and accept nothing but a fringe prospect to make it palatable for Toronto.

[Krylian]

Why is everyone so insistent on adding another 1B/DH?

[saskjayfan]

Yeah hard pass on Votto and Moose.

 

I love Votto but have no interest in his contract

 

He earned his money last year.

[Laika]

But I would perhaps look at it as overall money instead of individual contracts. Castillo would arguably be the ace of our staff and he has three years of arbitration control left. The guy is pretty elite. So you now have a rotation of

 

Castillo

Berrios

Gausman

Manoah

Kikuchi/Ryu

Stripling/Pearson.

 

That rotation covers inevitable injuries and offers significant depth.

 

Votto is still putting up excellent numbers 3.5 WAR and a .938OPS with 36 bombs so he's still worth his contract.

 

Moose is the iffy contract but if they take Grichuck back then the salary add here is $6m and $8m (the contract difference) so this looks much better to me. And our lineup will force more pitchers to pitch to these guys.

 

If Moose sucks who cares - Grichuk sucks. So we're kind of already eating $10m now.

 

I think Castillo is worse than Berrios and Gausman. Also a chance Manoah is better but who knows.

[Laika]

He earned his money last year.

 

Yes. Last year.

[Jays24]

Why is everyone so insistent on adding another 1B/DH?

 

Think it's less about a 1B but more so about them all being big left handed bats that fit in the top 4/5 in our lineup.

[G-Snarls]

He earned his money last year.

 

I wouldn't bet on him doing it again

 

You want last decade Votto not the next 2 years

[saskjayfan]

Votto is still owed 57M (25+25+7 buyout). Cincinnati would probably have to eat like 25M and accept nothing but a fringe prospect to make it palatable for Toronto.

 

He was 40% better than league average with the bat last year. They aren't eating half his salary and trading him for a nothing prospect. Either you take on all the money for a nothing prospect or they eat half the money and you give up a decent prospect. They aren't in the business of helping other teams win. It's entirely possible that Votto rakes again this year.

[BTS]

He was 40% better than league average with the bat last year. They aren't eating half his salary and trading him for a nothing prospect. Either you take on all the money for a nothing prospect or they eat half the money and you give up a decent prospect. They aren't in the business of helping other teams win. It's entirely possible that Votto rakes again this year.

 

We're talking about Cincinnati. This is literally what they're in the business of doing.

[BTS]

But for real, if Votto was a FA this year I don't think he does better than 2/30. Maybe 2/35 at the absolute high end?

[saskjayfan]

We're talking about Cincinnati. This is literally what they're in the business of doing.

 

They aren't eating half his salary and giving him away. Votto is a hyper intelligent hitter. He's made some adjustments and re-invented himself. When he's killing it at the trade deadline and demonstrating elite production for almost 2 seasons in a row his trade value will be a lot higher.

[BTS]

They aren't eating half his salary and giving him away. Votto is a hyper intelligent hitter. He's made some adjustments and re-invented himself. When he's killing it at the trade deadline and demonstrating elite production for almost 2 seasons in a row his trade value will be a lot higher.

 

You're probably right. But I never said they would. I said that's what likely would have to happen for it to be palatable for Toronto.

[Key22]

Votto is still owed 57M (25+25+7 buyout). Cincinnati would probably have to eat like 25M and accept nothing but a fringe prospect to make it palatable for Toronto.

 

I'm using the Yankees as an example - they took $50m of Donaldson and didn't eat a dime. Votto is putting up the same calibre numbers as JD. In my plan, we're also getting one of the best pitchers in baseball - as the Yankees got one of the best shortstops in baseball. They sent some contracts back - as the Jays would in dumping Grichuck.

[Key22]

I think Castillo is worse than Berrios and Gausman. Also a chance Manoah is better but who knows.

 

Castillo had a horrible start last year - with something like a 7 ERA - his numbers after the first like 6 weeks were outstanding and wound up with a 4.8 WAR even with the crappy start. He's durable 190ip in 2019 and 187 last year.

 

With weak pens - having starters who can get through 7 - to go along with the guys we have takes the pressure off the pen. And remember he was on a pretty bad baseball team. And a team without Pete Walker's magic fairy dust.

[Grant77]

Joey Votto and Tyler Naquin for Randal Grichuk and Kevin Smith.

 

Who says no?

[Key22]

Think it's less about a 1B but more so about them all being big left handed bats that fit in the top 4/5 in our lineup.

 

Yeah, they seem to really want left-handed bats that are actually good (unlike Biggio who should be in AAA).

 

Although, I think it's a bit overrated because if you are an elite RHB who clubs right-hand pitching then who cares? Personally, I'd rather have Correa than any of the other free agents and move Bo to second. Then you improve both positions defensively by a lot and also add the best free-agent bat. If the jays were willing to give Seager $300m+ then they can give Correa $300m +

 

Positionally this makes more sense than a 1B/DH type. The $175/7 for Semien isn't looking that bad at this point if's going to take $180m/6 to get Freeman

[Jays24]

Yeah, they seem to really want left-handed bats that are actually good (unlike Biggio who should be in AAA).

 

Although, I think it's a bit overrated because if you are an elite RHB who clubs right-hand pitching then who cares? Personally, I'd rather have Correa than any of the other free agents and move Bo to second. Then you improve both positions defensively by a lot and also add the best free-agent bat. If the jays were willing to give Seager $300m+ then they can give Correa $300m +

 

Positionally this makes more sense than a 1B/DH type. The $175/7 for Semien isn't looking that bad at this point if's going to take $180m/6 to get Freeman

 

Ya there's no way I'd want the Jays to give Freeman 6/180. I had hoped there would be some rumours of Correa with the Springer connection and all but we haven't heard a peep.

 

I think it's unrealistic to expect 2 moves like a Schwarber/Chapman but we definitely need to make one impact infield signing to replace Semien. Now let's see what Shatkins do

[Key22]

Ya there's no way I'd want the Jays to give Freeman 6/180. I had hoped there would be some rumours of Correa with the Springer connection and all but we haven't heard a peep.

 

I think it's unrealistic to expect 2 moves like a Schwarber/Chapman but we definitely need to make one impact infield signing to replace Semien. Now let's see what Shatkins do

 

I'm not big on paying for bat-only types who get in the way of positional flexibility - Vlad is an exception given his age.

 

But I think Correa $330m/10 at age 27 (out to his 36-year-old season) for a GG shortstop is far more appealing than $180/6 to a Freeman (out to his 38 season) and having to move Vlad to third where is a defensive disaster. Plus you have a below-average shortstop in Bo next to him.

 

Correa's problem has been health but when he plays he's arguably the best shortstop in the game and I don't care if he bats right. The guy can hit anyone.

 

Then when he is 34/35 you can move him to 1B/3B or DH. But hey I'm not the one spending the money.

 

Maybe the no chatter is a good thing. We hear lots of chatter on players who don't wind up here and then the guys we hear nothing about getting signed. Kikuchi the latest.

 

I think the Jays have far more money than people think. They should with the outrageous internet fees in Canada - I am going to be depressed when I move back to Canada in a few years to pay three times as much for 1/5th the speed.