Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[Ryu In My House]

If payroll parameters would allow for it I would qualify Matz with hopes of him signing a slightly cheaper AAV multi year deal (something like 3 years/$40 million), sign Semien and go hard after one of Syndergaard or Verlander.

 

I just assumed they would be offering Matz a QO. I take a pass on Ray, unless he is okay for 3-year/$60M which isn't happening and back up the bank truck for Semien. I would sign a couple of thoroughbred SPs on a pillow contract.

[Dick_Pole]

There's no way Matz is going anywhere other than Toronto if they offer the QO. Might as well dip 1/15 in front of him and see if he bites.

[glory]

The only reason for a FA to turn down the QO is if he knows he's going to get significantly more in free agency. Semien will turn it down. Ray will turn it down. Matz will accept 1/18 before Atkins even spits the offer out of his mouth. The question becomes, do the Jays want Matz taking up $18m of 2022 payroll? My guess is no. If the team wants to offer a big one year deal, then just go $20-25m on Syndergaard over a year and see if he bites. Aim as high as possible.

[L54]

There is no reason to give Matz a QO

 

There are a ton of attractive mid range SP options available this year who aren't going to cost 18M/year

 

Matz

Wood

Smyly

Cobb

ERod

Gray

Desclafani

Miley*

 

Get one of those guys, and find another starter through FA or trade who can act as a stabilizer near the top of the rotation.

 

Berrios

Player X

Manoah

FA

Ryu

[z3r0s]

There is no reason to give Matz a QO

 

There are a ton of attractive mid range SP options available this year who aren't going to cost 18M/year

 

Matz

Wood

Smyly

Cobb

ERod

Gray

Desclafani

Miley*

 

Get one of those guys, and find another starter through FA or trade who can act as a stabilizer near the top of the rotation.

 

Berrios

Player X

Manoah

FA

Ryu

 

how about that Bauer guy in your pic lol

[L54]

how about that Bauer guy in your pic lol

 

Ya I think he’s gonna have limited suitors lol

 

Probably ends up an Astro if I had to guess

[RustyTrombone]

Max Meyer for Alejandro Kirk. Who says no? Probably the Marlins I guess. But would be an interesting move for both teams. Jays need pitching badly. Meyer looks like he could be contributor in 2022 and the Marlins need hitting badly and have a surplus of SP.

[Krylian]

Ya I think he’s gonna have limited suitors lol

 

Probably ends up an Astro if I had to guess

 

Or Montreal Canadien, Brooklyn Net, or Dallas Cowboy.

[Abomination]

Ya I think he’s gonna have limited suitors lol

 

Probably ends up an Astro if I had to guess

 

More likely a Ranger. I don't think MLB is going to be letting him loose any time soon though. It sounds like there's a much bigger investigation going on (not specifically related to him), and it'll probably be quite some time before that gets completed and MLB can make a decision.

[Brownie19]

There absolutely is a reason to offer Matz a QO - it's to collect the compensation if he doesn't accept.

 

I think some of you are overstating that Matz will obviously bet on himself on a 1 year deal. Would Matz take 1 year $18M or 3 years $36M? Would he pass up on $18M? This is a guy who's had some injuries and really has only pitched well once in the past 5 years....and he's a pitcher - his arm could fall off tomorrow and he may never pitch again. I'm not convinced Matz would pass up $18M...I'm not convinced he'd pass up an extra $10M.

 

The Jays will do their research and feel out the situation and then make a decision. Perhaps they could sign Jon Gray, Wood or DeSclafani (ERod is getting a multi year deal and I want nothing to do with Cobb or Miley) to a 1 year $12M deal...or maybe it takes $14M to sign them. Is that extra $4-6M worth it to receive a compensation pick if Matz does in fact sign elsewhere and/or to get a guy back you know is comfortable here - a guy you know better and someone who had success pitching in the AL East? Maybe it is. What if the market for Jon Gray, Wood and DeSclafani is all multi year deals - says 3 years $36M - would you rather have Matz back on a 1 yr $18M deal? I would - those 3 are risky as f***.

[Abomination]

There absolutely is a reason to offer Matz a QO - it's to collect the compensation if he doesn't accept.

 

I think some of you are overstating that Matz will obviously bet on himself on a 1 year deal. Would Matz take 1 year $18M or 3 years $36M? Would he pass up on $18M? This is a guy who's had some injuries and really has only pitched well once in the past 5 years....and he's a pitcher - his arm could fall off tomorrow and he may never pitch again. I'm not convinced Matz would pass up $18M...I'm not convinced he'd pass up an extra $10M.

 

The Jays will do their research and feel out the situation and then make a decision. Perhaps they could sign Jon Gray, Wood or DeSclafani (ERod is getting a multi year deal and I want nothing to do with Cobb or Miley) to a 1 year $12M deal...or maybe it takes $14M to sign them. Is that extra $4-6M worth it to receive a compensation pick if Matz does in fact sign elsewhere and/or to get a guy back you know is comfortable here - a guy you know better and someone who had success pitching in the AL East? Maybe it is. What if the market for Jon Gray, Wood and DeSclafani is all multi year deals - says 3 years $36M - would you rather have Matz back on a 1 yr $18M deal? I would - those 3 are risky as f***.

 

I would absolutely love for us to get Jon Gray. I'd be fine with a multi year deal for him. Any of the three Grays for that matter (just keep Sonny out of Yankee stadium). Trade Ryu and sign all three of Gray, Descalfani, and Matz to 3/50. Your rotation is going to win a lot of games at a reasonable price.

[L54]

More likely a Ranger. I don't think MLB is going to be letting him loose any time soon though. It sounds like there's a much bigger investigation going on (not specifically related to him), and it'll probably be quite some time before that gets completed and MLB can make a decision.

 

What makes the Rangers more likely than the Astros?

[Abomination]

What makes the Rangers more likely than the Astros?

 

They have a history with those types of guys. Odor, Matt Bush, etc.

[Brownie19]

I would absolutely love for us to get Jon Gray. I'd be fine with a multi year deal for him. Any of the three Grays for that matter (just keep Sonny out of Yankee stadium). Trade Ryu and sign all three of Gray, Descalfani, and Matz to 3/50. Your rotation is going to win a lot of games at a reasonable price.

 

don't lead them away from my point!

[L54]

They have a history with those types of guys. Odor, Matt Bush, etc.

 

I mean Houston traded for Osuna

[RobinThicc]

No chance Bauer isnt picking up that 40 million dollar player option.

 

As for Matz, he'd be dumb not to accept that QO. I dont think 3/36 would even make it a tough decision for him. He'd essentially need to perform well enough to get at least 2/18 after accepting the QO and he wouldnt lose money. That seems like it would be very realistic target for Matz to hit.

[Spanky99]

No chance Bauer isnt picking up that 40 million dollar player option.

 

As for Matz, he'd be dumb not to accept that QO. I dont think 3/36 would even make it a tough decision for him. He'd essentially need to perform well enough to get at least 2/18 after accepting the QO and he wouldnt lose money. That seems like it would be very realistic target for Matz to hit.

 

Of course he wouldn't, LAD'd just move him for a taker. As for Matz, the longer the term doesn't exist in that scenario, the latter is guaranteed money. Depends on the player. But betting on health is risky, in your scenario. Many factors...

[Brownie19]

As for Matz, he'd be dumb not to accept that QO. I dont think 3/36 would even make it a tough decision for him. He'd essentially need to perform well enough to get at least 2/18 after accepting the QO and he wouldnt lose money. That seems like it would be very realistic target for Matz to hit.

 

I bet Dylan Bundy though the same thing when he signed a 1 year deal this year. Nobody's giving him 2/18 this offseason. It will depend on the player.

[Jimcanuck]

Gotta give Matz the QO. 1/18 is fine for his services. In this SP market, it's pretty good actually. We should all hope he accepts.

[WryNGinger]

Regarding the SP/RP discussion goes, it will be interesting to see if there are any pitchers that Pete Walker thinks he can turn around or take to the next level.

[Spanky99]

Regarding the SP/RP discussion goes, it will be interesting to see if there are any pitchers that Pete Walker thinks he can turn around or take to the next level.

 

It seems to be hard throwers with BB/9 issues, he's likely very good in unleashing his Krakken, on mechanics.

[Abomination]

Regarding the SP/RP discussion goes, it will be interesting to see if there are any pitchers that Pete Walker thinks he can turn around or take to the next level.

 

Lorenzen could fit that description. Maybe Middleton?

[RobinThicc]

I bet Dylan Bundy though the same thing when he signed a 1 year deal this year. Nobody's giving him 2/18 this offseason. It will depend on the player.

 

Fair enough.

[RobinThicc]

On a side, Ed Rogers kicked out by the family lol

 

Not sure if thats a good thing for the Jays.

[Brownie19]

Lorenzen could fit that description. Maybe Middleton?

 

Lorenzen looks like a good target.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Steven Matz 1 x $18M (QO)

Jon Gray 1 x $15M

Noah Syndergaard 1 x $25M

 

Berrios

Gray

Syndergaard

Ryu

Manoah

Matz

 

Pearson

Stripling

 

 

Pretty deep starting pitching and no long term big money commitments. (Except Berrios who I hope they extend this off season)

[Spanky99]

Steven Matz 1 x $18M (QO)

Jon Gray 1 x $15M

Noah Syndergaard 1 x $25M

 

Berrios

Gray

Syndergaard

Ryu

Manoah

Matz

 

Pearson

Stripling

 

 

Pretty deep starting pitching and no long term big money commitments. (Except Berrios who I hope they extend this off season)

 

That's sexy.

[THANOS]

Steven Matz 1 x $18M (QO)

Jon Gray 1 x $15M

Noah Syndergaard 1 x $25M

 

Berrios

Gray

Syndergaard

Ryu

Manoah

Matz

 

Pearson

Stripling

 

 

Pretty deep starting pitching and no long term big money commitments. (Except Berrios who I hope they extend this off season)

 

I like this. All realistic. All you need is to hope that just 2 of Matz, Thor, Gray, or Pearson are gems and it's great!

 

Pete Walker did wonders with both Matz and Ray, so I imagine he'd do great with Gray now that he's be out of Colorado. Thor just needs to stay healthy. Same goes for Pearson, but he also needs a confidence boost.

[max silver]

Steven Matz 1 x $18M (QO)

Jon Gray 1 x $15M

Noah Syndergaard 1 x $25M

 

Berrios

Gray

Syndergaard

Ryu

Manoah

Matz

 

Pearson

Stripling

 

 

Pretty deep starting pitching and no long term big money commitments. (Except Berrios who I hope they extend this off season)

 

Gotta hope there's money for a few high leverage bullpen arms and an impact bat as well on top of these pitchers. I'd be happy enough with 2 of those starter options if going the one year route for each. With Pearson, Stripling, Hatch, Kay, Allgeyer, Logue, etc. depth hopefully for once the Jays would have semi decent depth starting options available.

[Spanky99]

Gotta hope there's money for a few high leverage bullpen arms and an impact bat as well on top of these pitchers. I'd be happy enough with 2 of those starter options if going the one year route for each. With Pearson, Stripling, Hatch, Kay, Allgeyer, Logue, etc. depth hopefully for once the Jays would have semi decent depth starting options available.

 

Well, rumour is we working at it, lol