GDT Game 3/3 Orioles @ Jays Sweep Please!

[Omar]

Think in terms of bridges burned

Think of seasons that must end

See the rivers rise and fall

They will rise and fall again

Everything must have an end

Like an ocean to a shore

Like a river to a stream

Like a river to a stream

It's the famous final scene

 

[4thOFan]

Nice season guys

[gruber92]

If missing the playoffs means that Chuckles is gone, I'll take it.

 

If Montoya is back come ST, there's going to be tons of anger directed at Shatkins and rightfully so.

[John_Havok]

If missing the playoffs means that Chuckles is gone, I'll take it.

 

If Montoya is back come ST, there's going to be tons of anger directed at Shatkins and rightfully so.

 

Your posts mostly suck, but this one is correct.

[dineke]

If missing the playoffs means that Chuckles is gone, I'll take it.

 

If Montoya is back come ST, there's going to be tons of anger directed at Shatkins and rightfully so.

 

Then shatkins better have made the decision to fire him before the Orioles series. Firing a manager because the nats and rays shat themselves... Cmon

[John_Havok]

Then shatkins better have made the decision to fire him before the Orioles series. Firing a manager because the nats and rays shat themselves... Cmon

 

Oh they will definitely have that decision made already. He is only signed through 2022 so he’s heading into a lame duck season.

 

At this point, you either fire him or extend him, and how anyone can arrive at the conclusion he deserves and extension is beyond me.

[dineke]

Oh they will definitely have that decision made already. He is only signed through 2022 so he’s heading into a lame duck season.

 

At this point, you either fire him or extend him, and how anyone can arrive at the conclusion he deserves and extension is beyond me.

 

Based on his in-game decisions he should be fired. But a big part of a managers job is behind the scenes and maybe he's very good there, I have no idea.

[John_Havok]

Based on his in-game decisions he should be fired. But a big part of a managers job is behind the scenes and maybe he's very good there, I have no idea.

 

I have no doubt he is well liked by the players. He’s probably a genuinely terrific human being.

 

But he’s too nice. Unless he can get some backbone in his managerial style relating to umps etc, he won’t be the guy that leads a team to post season success. Leaders have to have an edge to them, Chuckles has no edge.

[Stangstag]

If missing the playoffs means that Chuckles is gone, I'll take it.

 

If Montoya is back come ST, there's going to be tons of anger directed at Shatkins and rightfully so.

 

Agreed, but im not even sure he’ll be gone. They already seem to wearing out the “three different home parks” excuse.

 

Maybe next season is his last.

[EdwinsParrot]

I truly shudder at the thought of another season of montoyo. But it seems more likely than not but guess we’ll really see where shatkins is at with him.

[Deadpool]

I have no doubt he is well liked by the players. He’s probably a genuinely terrific human being.

 

But he’s too nice. Unless he can get some backbone in his managerial style relating to umps etc, he won’t be the guy that leads a team to post season success. Leaders have to have an edge to them, Chuckles has no edge.

 

Also, not making really stupid decisions would be nice.

[BigCecil]

Too f'ing bad, because this team was definitely good enough to win it all.

Came down to a horrible pen and manager. I’m pissed. Unicorn seasons from Manoah, Ray, Semien and Matz and our core almost healthy for 162. Except Springer, but we had no Acuna Jr injuries. This division won’t make it any easier and Cody Bellinger will tell you players don’t automatically improve every year. Ya 91 wins is nice but whatever. Its an honourable mention ribbon. FO better get its s*** together. Start by canning Bongo dufus.

[glory]

Agreed, but im not even sure he’ll be gone. They already seem to wearing out the “three different home parks” excuse.

 

Maybe next season is his last.

 

My fear is that they won't want to give him lameduck status next year, which means if he's not fired, then he might actually be extended (even if only for another year).

 

If they keep him around, and MLB expands the playoffs in 2022, then I think he's going to be around for a while, unfortunately. Even with Buntoyo this team can probably make a playoff format with 7 teams in each league making it in.

[Jimcanuck]

Came down to a horrible pen and manager. I’m pissed. Unicorn seasons from Manoah, Ray, Semien and Matz and our core almost healthy for 162. Except Springer, but we had no Acuna Jr injuries. This division won’t make it any easier and Cody Bellinger will tell you players don’t automatically improve every year. Ya 91 wins is nice but whatever. Its an honourable mention ribbon. FO better get its s*** together. Start by canning Bongo dufus.

 

Gotta pin some blame on Shatkins too. Bullpen was s***ing the bed for weeks and the reinforcements were slow to come. The f***ing Rays bolstered their bullpen weeks before Shatkins made a move.

[RobinThicc]

Gotta pin some blame on Shatkins too. Bullpen was s***ing the bed for weeks and the reinforcements were slow to come. The f***ing Rays bolstered their bullpen weeks before Shatkins made a move.

 

Acquiring Brad Hand. God awful move.

[BigCecil]

Gotta pin some blame on Shatkins too. Bullpen was s***ing the bed for weeks and the reinforcements were slow to come. The f***ing Rays bolstered their bullpen weeks before Shatkins made a move.

 

100%. We were bleeding out of the eyeballs for weeks before they started to nibble to improve it. You can also question reliance on some of the lower cost risk signings for the pen they made. Was anyone surprised Yates and Merryweather got hurt? We stuck with Dolis so long and he was abysmal this year. We had Phelps and some other injuries sure. But other teams in our division also had pen injuries. That’s on the FO.

[Starrynova]

Basically pissed this one away due to awful managing and bullpen, plus reluctance of FO to bolster the pen. This is a 100 win team easy.

[Miya30]

The big thing is do you try to resign Semien and Ray? Honestly I think if the term is right you do it, but if they want 6–8 year deals then you let them walk. I do believe they need to get a deal done with Ray, you can’t have enough top end pitching as we seen this season. They need to bolster that bullpen, just not enough depth.

[Omar]

I have no doubt he is well liked by the players. He’s probably a genuinely terrific human being.

 

But he’s too nice. Unless he can get some backbone in his managerial style relating to umps etc, he won’t be the guy that leads a team to post season success. Leaders have to have an edge to them, Chuckles has no edge.

 

Believe it or not, Montoyo used to be a real hot head. Got tossed in minor league games all the time. Once his son got sick he had a change of heart. He is a different person now. He is never going to be that guy again. He needs to go back to the minors. Sad but true.

[max silver]

Gotta pin some blame on Shatkins too. Bullpen was s***ing the bed for weeks and the reinforcements were slow to come. The f***ing Rays bolstered their bullpen weeks before Shatkins made a move.

 

The Rays had to trade their major league starting short stop to bolster their pen. The Jays certainly don't have a Wander Franco caliber short stop replacement in their minor league system so they really didn't have the same type of trade ammunition available to them.

[glory]

Gotta pin some blame on Shatkins too. Bullpen was s***ing the bed for weeks and the reinforcements were slow to come. The f***ing Rays bolstered their bullpen weeks before Shatkins made a move.

 

I'm not sure we can pin the lack of early season trades on Shatkins since you don't see many significant May trades, but I think they deserve more blame for the bullpen setup prior to the season. They threw $10m on Yates (injured when he put pen to paper), Chatwood (awful for years), and Phelps (oft injured). Beyond that, they were counting on good health for Merryweather and Borucki, two guys who are never healthy, and Dolis to be good after a fluke 24 innings in 2020. The pen had some upside with health, but without health, it went about as well as you could have pictured it in that scenario. Once you combine that with Buntoyo having no clue how to manage a bullpen, and it becomes more clear why we are all pissing and moaning today rather than waiting for a Wild Card game tomorrow.

[gruber92]

The Rays had to trade their major league starting short stop to bolster their pen. The Jays certainly don't have a Wander Franco caliber short stop replacement in their minor league system so they really didn't have the same type of trade ammunition available to them.

 

That's bull. There are some B type prospects we could have moved for pen arms, McGuire could have been involved also.

[intentional wok]

The Rays had to trade their major league starting short stop to bolster their pen. The Jays certainly don't have a Wander Franco caliber short stop replacement in their minor league system so they really didn't have the same type of trade ammunition available to them.

 

They came into the season light on quality pitching and it cost them. I still think this was NOT meant to be a genuine contention year and that the FO was still assessing the core and determining needs from there. Did anyone in the FO really expect the sheer explosion of dominance from the lineup this year? If so, would the opening day rotation really have been Ryu, three reclamation projects (Ray, Matz, Strip) and Roark? Would the SP and RP depth have consisted of broken prospects and veterans and a stable of total wild cards?

 

I think way, way more went very right than the FO could have reasonably expected with the huge, glaring exception of everything going wrong for the pen (which includes overwork from a rotation that, while not terrible, still struggled to even deliver five innings per night for the first chunk of the year).

[King]

They came into the season light on quality pitching and it cost them. I still think this was NOT meant to be a genuine contention year and that the FO was still assessing the core and determining needs from there. Did anyone in the FO really expect the sheer explosion of dominance from the lineup this year? If so, would the opening day rotation really have been Ryu, three reclamation projects (Ray, Matz, Strip) and Roark? Would the SP and RP depth have consisted of broken prospects and veterans and a stable of total wild cards?

 

I think way, way more went very right than the FO could have reasonably expected with the huge, glaring exception of everything going wrong for the pen (which includes overwork from a rotation that, while not terrible, still struggled to even deliver five innings per night for the first chunk of the year).

They were clearly targeting players coming off down years that were talented and had a good chance of bouncing back, and it worked brilliantly. Really disagree that they didn't plan on contending this year.

[Laika]

They came into the season light on quality pitching and it cost them. I still think this was NOT meant to be a genuine contention year and that the FO was still assessing the core and determining needs from there. Did anyone in the FO really expect the sheer explosion of dominance from the lineup this year? If so, would the opening day rotation really have been Ryu, three reclamation projects (Ray, Matz, Strip) and Roark? Would the SP and RP depth have consisted of broken prospects and veterans and a stable of total wild cards?

 

I think way, way more went very right than the FO could have reasonably expected with the huge, glaring exception of everything going wrong for the pen (which includes overwork from a rotation that, while not terrible, still struggled to even deliver five innings per night for the first chunk of the year).

 

I'm not sure that's fair.

 

I mean, the front office did everything reasonable to amass quality pitching depth in 2021. Bringing back Ray, signing Ryu two years ago, bringing in Matz, trading for Berrios, trading for Stripling last year, being aggressive with Manoah, and then a number of pen additions.

 

I doubt the team thought about Stripling as a reclamation project - more likely they saw him as a solid arm who was likely to regress to the mean. Perhaps same could be said of Matz.

 

I think the organization DID expect to compete this year and tried hard to field a pitching staff. The thing is, you can only do so much in a year or two with acquisitions alone. It takes 5+ years to actually construct the pitching/developmental pipeline from the minors up, and this organization is just not quite there yet.

 

Getting essentially NO CONTRIBUTION from young arms like Kay, Hatch, Thornton, Merryweather, Pearson, Zeuch, Murphy, and Borucki was a killer. I think only two young arms really helped - Manoah and Mayza. That's not a fantastic developmental hit rate.

 

Pete Walker gets a lot of credit for guys like Ray and Matz but he does so while sitting on top of a pile of useless prospect corpses. Some of those non-contributing youngers have wicked stuff.

[BigCecil]

They came into the season light on quality pitching and it cost them. I still think this was NOT meant to be a genuine contention year and that the FO was still assessing the core and determining needs from there. Did anyone in the FO really expect the sheer explosion of dominance from the lineup this year? If so, would the opening day rotation really have been Ryu, three reclamation projects (Ray, Matz, Strip) and Roark? Would the SP and RP depth have consisted of broken prospects and veterans and a stable of total wild cards?

 

I think way, way more went very right than the FO could have reasonably expected with the huge, glaring exception of everything going wrong for the pen (which includes overwork from a rotation that, while not terrible, still struggled to even deliver five innings per night for the first chunk of the year).

 

Issue is nobody gives a s*** when we intend to genuinely contend in the AL East. Our comp are perennial contenders. Jays had a great chance to contend this year and we didn't seize it. The whole "if only we had the magic pixie dust of the Rogers Center all year" is the primary excuse now. I think the FO made a lot of moves to be in contention for 21, Matz, Semien, Yates, Ray were short term moves. Comparatively, we were healthy. Lets hope none of our core Cody Bellingers because a lot of people are banking that every year players just put up better stats. If Vlad gets back into Grandmas cooking in the off season all bets are off.

 

A pen bolstered earlier, an impact LHH (could settle for Dickerson) and a decent Mgr and we are at least playing at home tomorrow.

Edited October 4, 2021 by BigCecil

[AMS528]

Issue is nobody gives a s*** when we intend to genuinely contend in the AL East. Our comp are perennial contenders. Jays had a great chance to contend this year and we didn't seize it. The whole "if only we had the magic pixie dust of the Rogers Center all year" is the primary excuse now. I think the FO made a lot of moves to be in contention for 21, Matz, Semien, Yates, Ray were short term moves. Comparatively, we were healthy. Lets hope none of our core Cody Bellingers because a lot of people are banking that every year players just put up better stats. If Vlad gets back into Grandmas cooking in the off season all bets are off.

 

A pen bolstered earlier, an impact LHH (could settle for Dickerson) and a decent Mgr and we are at least playing at home tomorrow.

 

By run differential this is a 99 win team. Manager and pen definitely accounts for a decent portion of the underperformance.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Manager, bullpen and not playing at Rogers for half the home games turned this 99 win team into a 91 win team

[intentional wok]

They were clearly targeting players coming off down years that were talented and had a good chance of bouncing back, and it worked brilliantly. Really disagree that they didn't plan on contending this year.

 

Oh yeah, it definitely worked brilliantly. I should have been more specific in that YES, they were obviously contending but not exactly as a division favourite and more in the "if things land right" sort of way.

 

I'm not sure that's fair.

 

I mean, the front office did everything reasonable to amass quality pitching depth in 2021. Bringing back Ray, signing Ryu two years ago, bringing in Matz, trading for Berrios, trading for Stripling last year, being aggressive with Manoah, and then a number of pen additions.

 

I doubt the team thought about Stripling as a reclamation project - more likely they saw him as a solid arm who was likely to regress to the mean. Perhaps same could be said of Matz.

 

I think the organization DID expect to compete this year and tried hard to field a pitching staff. The thing is, you can only do so much in a year or two with acquisitions alone. It takes 5+ years to actually construct the pitching/developmental pipeline from the minors up, and this organization is just not quite there yet.

 

Getting essentially NO CONTRIBUTION from young arms like Kay, Hatch, Thornton, Merryweather, Pearson, Zeuch, Murphy, and Borucki was a killer. I think only two young arms really helped - Manoah and Mayza. That's not a fantastic developmental hit rate.

 

Pete Walker gets a lot of credit for guys like Ray and Matz but he does so while sitting on top of a pile of useless prospect corpses. Some of those non-contributing youngers have wicked stuff.

 

My original post on this probably reads harsher on the FO than I intended. I do actually believe they did everything they could to field a great team before the season and during (and by the end of the season the Jays looked like world killers). Unfortunately, as you say, there are only so many additions based on what was available that can reasonably be expected in a single off-season.

[Olerud363]

If Vlad gets back into Grandmas cooking in the off season all bets are off.

 

Hope the near misses (playoffs, 50 hr, probably MVP) keep Vlad motivated.