GDT: New York Yankees (90-68) @ Toronto Blue Jays (88-70) - Game 3/3; 7:07 PM EDT

[Effit]

September went bad on us real quick. What a shame. Was fun there for a bit.

[Omar]

Is that for the season Brownie? If so, holy f***!

[Spanky99]

Welp... that's no bueno.

[Buster]

Umps sure, montoyo sure.

 

But I think the real story should be the Vlad choke job down the stretch.

[thatoneguy]

Umps sure, montoyo sure.

 

But I think the real story should be the Vlad choke job down the stretch.

 

No, it shouldn't. He's one of the biggest reasons we even had/have a chance.

[max silver]

It's too bad Ray didn't have it today. Lately I get the feeling that he's running on fumes right now which makes sense when you consider he's basically had no extra rest the entire season. After being absolutely dominant for several months prior the command suddenly isn't there and he's been struggling as a result.

[Eat My Shatkins]

 

Is this something that should keep the Jays from signing Ray to a "I am a CY contender" contract?

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Yankees f***ing owned Ray this year.

 

Ray had 2ish ERA against MLB and a 6+ ERA against the Yankees.

 

Honestly, probably shouldn't have lined him up to face the only team that caved his s*** in this year, in hindsight. Or at least had a short leash with the guy.

[JuniorFelix54]

The Yankees f***ing owned Ray this year.

 

Ray had 2ish ERA against MLB and a 6+ ERA against the Yankees.

 

Honestly, probably shouldn't have lined him up to face the only team that caved his s*** in this year, in hindsight. Or at least had a short leash with the guy.

 

Should have been pulled immediately after the first HR and a righty brought in for Judge while it was still a tie game. Montoya doesn't know his ass from his balls the Jays overperformed despite that moron, managers can't really win games but they certainly lose them and with a decent mgr. the Jays would've made the playoffs.

[Stangstag]

 

Chris Black

@DownToBlack

 

Montoyo going to Valera over Grichuk there is ridiculous.

 

Valera 0-9 lifetime vs 97+ mph

 

He wanted nothing to do with that at bat

 

Lol of course

[Stangstag]

The Yankees f***ing owned Ray this year.

 

Ray had 2ish ERA against MLB and a 6+ ERA against the Yankees.

 

Honestly, probably shouldn't have lined him up to face the only team that caved his s*** in this year, in hindsight. Or at least had a short leash with the guy.

 

Analytics department knows what they’re doing rite

[EastCoaster]

The Yankees are a good team and they figured out Robbie Ray he throws 60% 4 seam fastball 30%sliders 7% curveball and 3% changeups the Yanks laid off his secondary pitches and look for the 4 seam fastball and tattoed them for the win. Anyways this is pretty much over but the crying right now the Blue jays need to win all their games the Red Sox and Mariners have to lose at least one of their remaining games to go in a one game playoff against the Yankees with Robbie Ray on the mound again they might want to revisit that decision I would go with Berrios he's the one who mange to handle the Yankees the best lately.

[Olerud363]

Is this something that should keep the Jays from signing Ray to a "I am a CY contender" contract?

 

It should factor in. As should the 32 homeruns he gave up and his overall track record and teams should come up with a price that fits his expected value.

 

Interesting that Montoya did the opposite of Cash in the World Series last year did with Snell.

 

How many times do you hear that "guy was rolling, manager needs to stay with him and ignore the analytics".

 

Analytics are right in a probablistic sense, just not always right, if you pull the guy whos terrible 3rd time through the order, even if rolling it will work out more times than not.

 

The time it doesn't media and old schoolers will fry you. Imagine if he had taken Ray out and this had happened?

[Jimcanuck]

It should factor in. As should the 32 homeruns he gave up and his overall track record and teams should come up with a price that fits his expected value.

 

Interesting that Montoya did the opposite of Cash in the World Series last year did with Snell.

 

How many times do you hear that "guy was rolling, manager needs to stay with him and ignore the analytics".

 

Analytics are right in a probablistic sense, just not always right, if you pull the guy whos terrible 3rd time through the order, even if rolling it will work out more times than not.

 

The time it doesn't media and old schoolers will fry you. Imagine if he had taken Ray out and this had happened?

 

Exactly, but truth be told he should have been taken out after the first two taters.

[Brownie19]

Exactly, but truth be told he should have been taken out after the first two taters.

 

No, no, no - you live and die with your Cy Young contender. Charlie can sleep well knowing he lost with his ace on the mound.

 

All the guys who castrated Cash last year best be on here supporting Chuckles. Chuckles is the man right because he used his eyes and didn't look at all the math and statistical evidence that more often than not, Ray is going to get tattooed going through the heart of the red hot Yanks lineup a 3rd time.

[max silver]

No, no, no - you live and die with your Cy Young contender. Charlie can sleep well knowing he lost with his ace on the mound.

 

All the guys who castrated Cash last year best be on here supporting Chuckles. Chuckles is the man right because he used his eyes and didn't look at all the math and statistical evidence that more often than not, Ray is going to get tattooed going through the heart of the red hot Yanks lineup a 3rd time.

 

My bigger issue isn't so much that Ray wasn't removed before the third time through the order came around, but more so that he was allowed to remain in the game well after he was actively getting demolished by the Yankees the third time through the order. I see no issue if you want the manager to trust what his eyes are telling him instead of relying on analytics to help formulate a decision as to when to remove his starter, but this was the worst of both world's when neither tactic was employed.

[Olerud363]

No, no, no - you live and die with your Cy Young contender. Charlie can sleep well knowing he lost with his ace on the mound.

 

All the guys who castrated Cash last year best be on here supporting Chuckles. Chuckles is the man right because he used his eyes and didn't look at all the math and statistical evidence that more often than not, Ray is going to get tattooed going through the heart of the red hot Yanks lineup a 3rd time.

 

So on point. I hope this makes it easier to make these decisions next year if situation arises. Hoping a high leverage game will involve pulling starter early if situation and stats dictates, no matter how good the guy is first 2 times through.

[Jimcanuck]

So on point. I hope this makes it easier to make these decisions next year if situation arises. Hoping a high leverage game will involve pulling starter early if situation and stats dictates, no matter how good the guy is first 2 times through.

 

What if the guy is working a no-hit, or has only given up 1 or 2 hits?

[glory]

My bigger issue isn't so much that Ray wasn't removed before the third time through the order came around, but more so that he was allowed to remain in the game well after he was actively getting demolished by the Yankees the third time through the order. I see no issue if you want the manager to trust what his eyes are telling him instead of relying on analytics to help formulate a decision as to when to remove his starter, but this was the worst of both world's when neither tactic was employed.

 

Snell was dominating the Dodgers. Ray's velocity seemed a bit down and he was far from dominating regardless of how many runs he gave up until the big inning by the Yankees.

[Jimcanuck]

Snell was dominating the Dodgers. Ray's velocity seemed a bit down and he was far from dominating regardless of how many runs he gave up until the big inning by the Yankees.

 

2 walks and a home run in 5 innings. That's pretty close to dominating. But with my 20/20 vision, after the first two taters in the 6th, he should have been out of there.

[max silver]

Snell was dominating the Dodgers. Ray's velocity seemed a bit down and he was far from dominating regardless of how many runs he gave up until the big inning by the Yankees.

 

If I recall correctly Ray had retired something like 12 batters in a row before the meltdown. He had shown no signs of real trouble up to that point other than the original Judge home run.

[Eat My Shatkins]

If I recall correctly Ray had retired something like 12 batters in a row before the meltdown. He had shown no signs of real trouble up to that point other than the original Judge home run.

 

This is true, but history was not on Ray's side with an ERA over 6 against the Yankees this year and a .935 opponent OPS the third time through the order.

 

The Jays failed themselves by not being prepared for the likely scenario that the Yankees would get to Ray.

[Spanky99]

I don't know man, I'm getting logged, lol

f***, man.

 

 

Sorry

 

I'll update that.

[Spanky99]

Thank you kindly.