Season Over

[JuniorFelix54]

I was asking JuniorFelix54 if 'the season is over'... yes most other posters know there are the scenarios we can make it.

 

As I said, yes the season is over

[TheHurl]

There’s 5 games left

 

4-1 and a tiebreaker. I might be going full Grant here...but I believe that Boston is losing 2 at least.

[Olerud363]

4-1 and a tiebreaker. I might be going full Grant here...but I believe that Boston is losing 2 at least.

 

More Wilner than Grant.

[Krylian]

Wild Card

 

Seattle - 0.5 GB / -50 run differential

Toronto 0 1.0 GB / +167 run differential

[wilko]

Wild Card

 

Seattle - 0.5 GB / -50 run differential

Toronto 0 1.0 GB / +167 run differential

 

[Olerud363]

Wild Card

 

Seattle - 0.5 GB / -50 run differential

Toronto 0 1.0 GB / +167 run differential

 

eye balling it Seattle is not only over-performing their pythagoran but their runs scored are overperforming their underlying stats, Toronto is underperfroming both.

 

Toronto .264 .330 .460 810 runs

TBR .241 .320 .446 832 runs (TBR overperforming probably)

 

Seattle is in the ballpark with NY Yankees, Detroit in runs, but has a worse statline

 

NY Yankees 694 runs .239 .325 .409

Seattle 684 runs .226 .303 .389

[John_Havok]

new York is outperforming their win totals with their runs scored/allowed also. Not to the same degree, but still...

[Olerud363]

Reese McGuire in the lineup.

 

That must end the season for some people... no? I know Biggio isn't tested or completely healthy, but if you want an extra lefty vs Cole

 

Dickerson

Espinal

Reese

 

or

 

Dickerson

Kirk

Biggio

[Stangstag]

Also im not even sure Gurriel is healthy enough that he should be DH over Kirk.

 

Some extremely questionable managing decisions these last few weeks.

[JaysAllMighty]

Also im not even sure Gurriel is healthy enough that he should be DH over Kirk.

 

Some extremely questionable managing decisions these last few weeks.

 

I was wondering that myself. He was swinging at pitchers way out of the zone last night. I hope he does better tonight.

[connorp]

I was wondering that myself. He was swinging at pitchers way out of the zone last night. I hope he does better tonight.

 

I mean, you could say the injury effected his grip on the bat or something, how hard he could swing etc… it doesn’t really cover waving at pitches 2ft out of the zone

[Olerud363]

Also im not even sure Gurriel is healthy enough that he should be DH over Kirk.

 

Some extremely questionable managing decisions these last few weeks.

 

Kirk - Son of Cecil Fielder by a Mexican mother?

 

1987/88 - Blue Jays give 240 pound 22 year old youngster fatty named Cecil Fielder 140 at bats a year

 

Cecil does OK with 140 at bats, but Jays not impressed let him go to Japan

 

2020/2021 - Blue Jays give 240 pound 22 year old youngster fatty named Kirk 140 at bats a year

 

They are similar. Cecil couldn't catch and struck out more. So they are not that similar except for playing time and fatness.

[Stangstag]

Kirk - Son of Cecil Fielder by a Mexican mother?

 

1987/88 - Blue Jays give 240 pound 22 year old youngster fatty named Cecil Fielder 140 at bats a year

 

Cecil does OK with 140 at bats, but Jays not impressed let him go to Japan

 

2020/2021 - Blue Jays give 240 pound 22 year old youngster fatty named Kirk 140 at bats a year

 

They are similar. Cecil couldn't catch and struck out more. So they are not that similar except for playing time and fatness.

 

Exactly what I was thinking

[Olerud363]

Exactly what I was thinking

 

I can't think of many other guys who were given so little playing time as a very young player, but burnt a lot of service time.

 

Part of it is injury.

 

Plenty of guys got 150 at bats at the same age. But if I recall Fielder was up some of 86 and all of 87 and 88, and was getting around 200 at bats a year as Mgriff's platoon while Willie Upshaw played first.

 

OK. Getting way into the past here and people will get annoyed. Main point just is we burnt a lot of Kirk's service time for a 1/3 time player.

[Ryu In My House]

I can't think of many other guys who were given so little playing time as a very young player, but burnt a lot of service time.

 

Part of it is injury.

 

Plenty of guys got 150 at bats at the same age. But if I recall Fielder was up some of 86 and all of 87 and 88, and was getting around 200 at bats a year as Mgriff's platoon while Willie Upshaw played first.

 

OK. Getting way into the past here and people will get annoyed. Main point just is we burnt a lot of Kirk's service time for a 1/3 time player.

 

Plus Fielders struck out a f*** ton. And he was considerably slower than Kirk is at this point. Also, the Jays didn't really need a DH then. Kirk is a catcher, sort of a premium defensive position where offense is mostly a plus. Other than those things it is the exact same scenario.

[The_DH]

Plus Fielders struck out a f*** ton. And he was considerably slower than Kirk is at this point. Also, the Jays didn't really need a DH then. Kirk is a catcher, sort of a premium defensive position where offense is mostly a plus. Other than those things it is the exact same scenario.

 

The Jays played Upshaw at 1b and McGriff some at DH. Upshaw should have been gone with the other two playing full time. Fielder could throw and catch, just no range. I don’t think Fielder learned much in Japan (he could have learned it here) just that he got regular playing time there. When I look at Kirk I’m afraid I see a guy rotting on the bench.

[keggy]

I haven't seen a ton of Kirk behind the plate, but it's clear to me that he's still developing and a notch below Jansen and the masturbator defensively. If the Jays were rebuilding, or if his bat wasn't so MLB-ready, Kirk would probably be catching every day in AAA this season.

 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that the one guy Kirk calls a good game with (Ray) has the simplest pitch repertoire. Basically: "throw the ball as hard as you can down the middle to get ahead, then wipeout slider for the K".

 

If he had a little more seasoning behind the plate to catch really complicated guys like Ryu and Berrios, or if guys like Springer didn't need the DH slot, he would've played a lot more. It's also clear that Charlie plays favourites (Espinal, Dolis, McGuire), and Kirk isn't one of them. Pinch hitting Kirk for a pinch bunter in a leverage AB really showed what Charlie thinks of Kirk.

 

I think next season, Kirk and Jansen develop into a very productive C/DH defense/offense combo.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I thought the season was over on 09-24-2021, at 10:22 PM?

 

Why the f*** are they still playing games?

[Olerud363]

I thought the season was over on 09-24-2021, at 10:22 PM?

 

Why the f*** are they still playing games?

 

He called it correctly. The season was over because at that point it was no longer realistic for everything else to go perfectly right. Needed 3/4 against the twins to give room for a random bad inning by Ray or something.

[Funky]

No matter what happens the last 3 games you don’t s*** on a very young team that has overachieved this season despite being led by Howdy Doody, losing some major pieces in the bullpen as the season started and missing Springer for half a year.

 

I just hope management has the balls to build on this success, bring in the right pieces and get rid of some dead pieces. If we start next year with a three headed catching dilemma, a 10 million dollar struck out machine as a fourth outfielder, a s*** bullpen, and retain Charlie then Shatkins has failed miserably.

[Olerud363]

No matter what happens the last 3 games you don’t s*** on a very young team that has overachieved this season despite being led by Howdy Doody, losing some major pieces in the bullpen as the season started and missing Springer for half a year.

 

I just hope management has the balls to build on this success, bring in the right pieces and get rid of some dead pieces. If we start next year with a three headed catching dilemma, a 10 million dollar struck out machine as a fourth outfielder, a s*** bullpen, and retain Charlie then Shatkins has failed miserably.

 

Yes. This is right.

 

1. Need to convert the 4 young catchers to 2 catchers. Could be partly by position changes (ie Moreno to third, Kirk to DH). Doesn't have to be done by April 1st, as Moreno may need more time in Buffalo.

 

2. Need to convert the 3 right handed 35 walks a year outfielder/DHs to 2 of them and left handed 70 walk a year outfielder/DH. Grichuk is the weakest so it would be great to get rid of him and have an on-base-ish lefty come in, but it won't be a one on one trade.... and neither will one of the other 2 be traded one on one for Jesse Winkler. Still through a series of moves need to convert a low obp righty for higher obp lefty outfielder some how.

 

3. s*** bullpen is no longer s*** and most of them are coming back. Need to keep Pearson and Merryweather healthy. Need to be creative with Pearson. Has been looking good for 2 innings at a time so open or take over in 6th when 'cough' a lefty that gets creamed 3rd time through the order is pitching (Ray may be gone but still have Ryu).

[Daniel Labude]

Yes. This is right.

 

1. Need to convert the 4 young catchers to 2 catchers. Could be partly by position changes (ie Moreno to third, Kirk to DH). Doesn't have to be done by April 1st, as Moreno may need more time in Buffalo.

 

2. Need to convert the 3 right handed 35 walks a year outfielder/DHs to 2 of them and left handed 70 walk a year outfielder/DH. Grichuk is the weakest so it would be great to get rid of him and have an on-base-ish lefty come in, but it won't be a one on one trade.... and neither will one of the other 2 be traded one on one for Jesse Winkler. Still through a series of moves need to convert a low obp righty for higher obp lefty outfielder some how.

 

3. s*** bullpen is no longer s*** and most of them are coming back. Need to keep Pearson and Merryweather healthy. Need to be creative with Pearson. Has been looking good for 2 innings at a time so open or take over in 6th when 'cough' a lefty that gets creamed 3rd time through the order is pitching (Ray may be gone but still have Ryu).

 

Pearson will be moved back to SP

[JuniorFelix]

Mostly a lurker, and I recall having to do this exact thing before, but please don't associate me with this fellow

[TheHurl]

Mostly a lurker, and I recall having to do this exact thing before, but please don't associate me with this fellow

 

American JuniorFelix and Canadian Junior. I'll see if I can make something in your profile to reflect that.

[Olerud363]

Pearson will be moved back to SP

 

Doubt he holds up as a normal starter... should aim to get 100 innings of fairly high leverage, Shane McLanahan has 125 good innings, started late, 5 innings a start, must of skipped a couple of starts too.

 

Honestly the 5-2-5-2 thing could be the way to go. He seemed to respond to that.

[Jimcanuck]

Doubt he holds up as a normal starter... should aim to get 100 innings of fairly high leverage, Shane McLanahan has 125 good innings, started late, 5 innings a start, must of skipped a couple of starts too.

 

Honestly the 5-2-5-2 thing could be the way to go. He seemed to respond to that.

 

So basically a Stripling type of workload. I think a Henke type of high leverage guy would have more value than that.

[Olerud363]

So basically a Stripling type of workload. I think a Henke type of high leverage guy would have more value than that.

 

I guess it depends how the rest of the bullpen looks and how they envision transitioning him to starter.

 

Imagine the Stripling role, but a pitcher who is really good. There are a bunch of high leverage spots Stripling was actually used, and it would of been better to have Pearson instead. Also if they have it planned out it would be easier to use Pearson an inning earlier in games like Yesterday and Tuesday. Which might of helped quite a bit.

[Jimcanuck]

I guess it depends how the rest of the bullpen looks and how they envision transitioning him to starter.

 

Imagine the Stripling role, but a pitcher who is really good. There are a bunch of high leverage spots Stripling was actually used, and it would of been better to have Pearson instead. Also if they have it planned out it would be easier to use Pearson an inning earlier in games like Yesterday and Tuesday. Which might of helped quite a bit.

 

I guess if he does a Stripling type of role, it would work as an eventual transition to a full time SP. He only pitched 44 innings this year, he's a ways from doing even a Stripling scenario without injury risk.

 

Honestly when a guy throws 104 MPH he's not going to last long as an SP. And so far, he has been very inefficient (too many pitches / batter). I'm pretty resigned to him having a career as a high leverage bullpen guy.

[thatoneguy]

Honestly when a guy throws 104 MPH he's not going to last long as an SP. And so far, he has been very inefficient (too many pitches / batter). I'm pretty resigned to him having a career as a high leverage bullpen guy.

 

It's stuff like this that makes me marvel at the mutants that are guys like Nolan Ryan and Justin Verlander.

[Abomination]

It's stuff like this that makes me marvel at the mutants that are guys like Nolan Ryan and Justin Verlander.

 

 

Verlander (at least earlier in his career) never used to throw max effort at the beginning of the game. He'd ramp it up slowly as the game progressed or as the situation demanded it. It probably saved him a lot of bullets. If he smelled a no hitter or something though, look out in the 8th and 9th! You're gonna be seeing triple digits.