Rosterbation Discussion Thread (2021)

[max silver]

There's absolutely no way that both didn't play a role in his season. He was wincing in pain on throws to first base early in the season and never got back to his normal self. Just one year ago, many were saying he was the best of the legacy trio.

 

I'm calling ******** on this statement. Vlad Jr. has potential hall of fame talent and Bichette has perennial all star levels of talent. Biggio's talent level likely maxes out more at above average regular with complete bounce back.

[Laika]

I'm calling ******** on this statement. Vlad Jr. has potential hall of fame talent and Bichette has perennial all star levels of talent. Biggio's talent level likely maxes out more at above average regular with complete bounce back.

 

2019-2020

 

Cavan Biggio 3.8 fWAR; 695 PA

Bo Bichette 2.6 fWAR; 340 PA

Vlad Jr. 0.6 fWAR; 757 PA

 

I mean he WAS the best in terms of cumulative on field production. Bo was better per game though.

 

Cavan was giving people Ben Zobrist lite vibes while Vlad looked like a massive flop.

And Bo had the look of a highly variable hacker with injury risks and questionable defense.

[max silver]

2019-2020

 

Cavan Biggio 3.8 fWAR; 695 PA

Bo Bichette 2.6 fWAR; 340 PA

Vlad Jr. 0.6 fWAR; 757 PA

 

I mean he WAS the best in terms of cumulative on field production. Bo was better per game though.

 

Cavan was giving people Ben Zobrist lite vibes while Vlad looked like a massive flop.

And Bo had the look of a highly variable hacker with injury risks and questionable defense.

 

Sure Biggio had more early success which isn't completely surprising given the fact that he's the oldest of the trio, but to make the claim that he was actually better than the other two based on some early MLB success is short sighted at best. Vlad and Bo each had several stops along the way in the minors where they produced WRC+ values exceeding 200, it was just a matter of time before they fully announced their presence in the majors.

[Deadpool]

Sure Biggio had more early success which isn't completely surprising given the fact that he's the oldest of the trio, but to make the claim that he was actually better than the other two based on some early MLB success is short sighted at best. Vlad and Bo each had several stops along the way in the minors where they produced WRC+ values exceeding 200, it was just a matter of time before they fully announced their presence in the majors.

 

It's obviously shortsighted, but what Grant77 was saying is that "many were saying he was the best" which I can assume is true because I've been to the Sportsnet comment section before.

[Grant77]

I'm calling ******** on this statement. Vlad Jr. has potential hall of fame talent and Bichette has perennial all star levels of talent. Biggio's talent level likely maxes out more at above average regular with complete bounce back.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying that this opinion was well supported or something that I agreed with.

 

That being said, some people on this forum, in the media, and elsewhere believed that Biggio was the best of the three. This isn't something that I'm fabricating.

[Laika]

Sure Biggio had more early success which isn't completely surprising given the fact that he's the oldest of the trio, but to make the claim that he was actually better than the other two based on some early MLB success is short sighted at best. Vlad and Bo each had several stops along the way in the minors where they produced WRC+ values exceeding 200, it was just a matter of time before they fully announced their presence in the majors.

 

Well it was a thing that was said for the reasons I posted.

 

But you are right... I don't think Biggio ever projected to be better than the other two, not even close.

[TwistedLogic]

 

Solid W here for the Jays FO. Locked in a nice depth option at 600K less than his MLBTR arb estimate.

[connorp]

Well it was a thing that was said for the reasons I posted.

 

But you are right... I don't think Biggio ever projected to be better than the other two, not even close.

 

You wouldn’t have guessed that from all your anti-Vlad observations with grounds ball into the dirt

[Laika]

You wouldn’t have guessed that from all your anti-Vlad observations with grounds ball into the dirt

 

Thank f***ing god Vlad reads the forum and took heed

[TwistedLogic]

[TwistedLogic]

[TwistedLogic]

[G-Snarls]

Nice

 

TL can you do a new payroll total after today's arbitration-avoiding deals are all tallied?

[TwistedLogic]

Nice

 

TL can you do a new payroll total after today's arbitration-avoiding deals are all tallied?

 

Yup, excited for all the numbers to come in. Hopefully they settle with the remaining guys so we know exactly how much they're earning and we don't have to worry about arb hearings in-season.

 

On the main roster, only Mayza, Cimber, Jansen and Vladdy are left for arb cases.

 

I've had a small hunch all day that we might hear of a Vladdy extension today but who knows where they're at on that. Either way, I hope they get him locked in on a number.

[G-Snarls]

Yup, excited for all the numbers to come in. Hopefully they settle with the remaining guys so we know exactly how much they're earning and we don't have to worry about arb hearings in-season.

 

On the main roster, only Mayza, Cimber, Jansen and Vladdy are left for arb cases.

 

I've had a small hunch all day that we might hear of a Vladdy extension today but who knows where they're at on that. Either way, I hope they get him locked in on a number.

 

Please do it

 

I pretty much don't even care how much it takes at this point...

[TwistedLogic]

I got half of what I asked for I guess, haha.

 

MLBTR did good work on this estimate.

 

[G-Snarls]

I got half of what I asked for I guess, haha.

 

MLBTR did good work on this estimate.

 

 

In his first year of arbitration...

 

It's our last year of Vladdy on the cheap

 

Might as well get the 12 year deal done within the next 12 months if you can...

[glory]

That's less than I thought he'd get coming off what was essentially an MVP season.

[G-Snarls]

That's less than I thought he'd get coming off what was essentially an MVP season.

 

First year arb eligible but yeah... Price, Bryant, Bellinger all got 10M+ in their first year.

[TwistedLogic]

First year arb eligible but yeah... Price, Bryant, Bellinger all got 10M+ in their first year.

 

Vladdy wasn't good in his first year and he's also a Super Two. Makes a big difference.

[TwistedLogic]

 

Jays came to terms with everyone.

[Stangstag]

 

Jays came to terms with everyone.

 

Nice, don’t wanna have players worried about arbitration hearings during the season.

[InsideThePark]

Vladdy gets 7.9, weren’t some people here estimating in the 12-14 range? I thought 8-10 was more reasonable. Turns on MLBTR was right on. Sometimes I’m curious if teams and player just point to the MLBTR estimate and say you good with that? Yep, awesome. Like 7.9 is very specific. How do they end up at that exact same number that MLBTR did?

[G-Snarls]

Vladdy gets 7.9, weren’t some people here estimating in the 12-14 range? I thought 8-10 was more reasonable. Turns on MLBTR was right on. Sometimes I’m curious if teams and player just point to the MLBTR estimate and say you good with that? Yep, awesome. Like 7.9 is very specific. How do they end up at that exact same number that MLBTR did?

 

Soto just got 17. 1

 

So will Vlad next year with a good 2022

[TwistedLogic]

Updated Payroll Table:

 

 

As you all know from last night, arbitration salaries are all locked up now. The Jays are spending about $174M on payroll for this upcoming season with signing bonuses counted in. Player benefits and salaries for 40-man rostered minor leaguers can get the spending up to an estimated $192M.

 

In terms of the CBT, the Jays are projected to have a $185M cap hit, with $45M in space before the first threshold.

 

As far as the roster goes, I would be surprised if Thornton actually makes it, just included him since he was an arb case. However, Borucki is looking like he has a solid chance for a spot since he's getting very paid little, has no options left and apparently looks really good so far.

 

Atkins also said today that he might be more inclined to carry three catchers with the 28-man rosters in April, so unless a deal is struck, expect all of Kirk, Jansen and McGuire to make it.

 

I'm guessing the Opening Day squad looks very close to what I have above, perhaps with Bird and Merryweather in place of Lopez and Thornton.

[wamco]

Thornton surprises me when he works a clean inning. Merryweather makes it over butters imo

[InsideThePark]

Soto just got 17. 1

 

So will Vlad next year with a good 2022

 

Soto got an extra 600k his first year which matters as it tends to multiply. I'd say Vlad closer to 16, then probably 24 in year 3, and then over 30 in the final year. If he continues the way he was last year that is.

 

I just didn't really get the 12+ projections some people were making in October/November

[John_Havok]

That's less than I thought he'd get coming off what was essentially an MVP season.

 

Yes, but his 1st 2 seasons were.... less than stellar. 1st arb contract takes all 3 years into account, not just the most recent one.

[Spanky99]

Yes, but his 1st 2 seasons were.... less than stellar. 1st arb contract takes all 3 years into account, not just the most recent one.

 

Really, today I learned.

[John_Havok]

Really, today I learned.

 

Well, more specifically, IF someone like Vlad ever got an arbritration hearing, the arbitrator would be looking at all years prior when rendering a decision on whether to rule in favor of the player's # or the teams #. So... yeah, true talent of course he's worth more than 7.9 million, but those first two seasons (or in his case, the first full season of control that spanned 2019 and 2020) Vlad sucked. Had he raked in those years he likely would have just set a new 1st year arbitration record.