General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[connorp]

I thought it was Voldemort.

 

Not even an HP fan but that was clearly the low hanging fruit

[Jays24]

strike 1

 

 

 

strike 2!

 

Vobuldak? Voldemak?

 

Loll give me a few more tries and I'll get it right.

[Jays24]

You didn't bother to look at the rest of his career? He's has a career 1.1 WAR across 840 PA, and a career 103 wRC+, which isn't great for a guy who weighs a thousand pounds.

 

I meant his most recent full season was a good one. 2020 seems to be a writeoff (rightfully so) for many players. If we didnt have 2 fatties ahead of him last year (Vlad/Tellez), I think he would have been intriguing to keep.

 

Not saying he's Edwin or Jose in the making but if we looked at their previous numbers before they started breaking out, we probably wouldn't have cared to keep them either. It doesn't click for everyone at the same time.

[Krylian]

Not even an HP fan but that was clearly the low hanging fruit

 

I'm like an elite hitter. I don't overthink it and I don't chase. I take what's given to me.

[BlueRocky]

[Jimcanuck]

I meant his most recent full season was a good one. 2020 seems to be a writeoff (rightfully so) for many players. If we didnt have 2 fatties ahead of him last year (Vlad/Tellez), I think he would have been intriguing to keep.

 

Not saying he's Edwin or Jose in the making but if we looked at their previous numbers before they started breaking out, we probably wouldn't have cared to keep them either. It doesn't click for everyone at the same time.

 

Such a lazy argument.

[Jays24]

Such a lazy argument.

 

That was just a secondary comment. My first response to being good in 2019 and 2020 being a waste doesn't count? Majority of our starting rotation is based on the hope that 2020 was a write-off.

[Jimcanuck]

That was just a secondary comment. My first response to being good in 2019 and 2020 being a waste doesn't count? Majority of our starting rotation is based on the hope that 2020 was a write-off.

 

Vogelbach is one dimensional, he has negative defensive value and is very slow. He has one above average tool, his power. Unless the power is plus plus and combined with an elite hit tool, guys like this are journeymen and wash out of baseball fairly early.

[The Cats Ass]

 

Poor Orioles.

[Brownie19]

At least this confirms my suspicions that the Giants will suck.

[Jays24]

 

Are the Red Sox really going to be that much better than the Rays? They lost Snell and Morton but we all know they'll throw out another couple of studs to help fill those shoes.

[Grant77]

Are the Red Sox really going to be that much better than the Rays? They lost Snell and Morton but we all know they'll throw out another couple of studs to help fill those shoes.

 

I'm not convinced that Garrett Richards and Adam Ottavino drastically alter the outlook for the worst pitching staff in the history of baseball, nor am I convinced that their offense, while good, is in a position to lead such bad pitching to a playoff berth.

[Orgfiller]

I'm not convinced that Garrett Richards and Adam Ottavino drastically alter the outlook for the worst pitching staff in the history of baseball, nor am I convinced that their offense, while good, is in a position to lead such bad pitching to a playoff berth.

 

Convenient to ignore that they didn't have Eduardo Rodriguez pitch in 2020 who was excellent the year before and projects well. They'll also add this one lanky guy around midseason, you may have heard of him.

[Grant77]

Convenient to ignore that they didn't have Eduardo Rodriguez pitch in 2020 who was excellent the year before and projects well. They'll also add this one lanky guy around midseason, you may have heard of him.

 

While Sale is a great pitcher, he's already had setbacks in his return and will probably see an innings limit if he makes it back by July. I think you are incorrect to suggest that he is the piece that will take them from the worst staff in the history of baseball to a playoff contender. Anything they get from those guys after not pitching for 18 months is a bonus, not an expectation.

[TwistedLogic]

FanGraphs got jokes.

Poor Orioles, lmao.

[Jays24]

FanGraphs got jokes.

Poor Orioles, lmao.

 

Hahaha

[G-Snarls]

They're really egging people on too LOL

 

[Jimcanuck]

FanGraphs got jokes.

Poor Orioles, lmao.

 

Someone needs to post that in Orioles Hangout. If it still exists

 

Already done.... https://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php?/topic/40423-fangraphs-gives-os-00-of-making-playoffs/

[King]

While Sale is a great pitcher, he's already had setbacks in his return and will probably see an innings limit if he makes it back by July. I think you are incorrect to suggest that he is the piece that will take them from the worst staff in the history of baseball to a playoff contender. Anything they get from those guys after not pitching for 18 months is a bonus, not an expectation.

Who's gonna say it?

[Grant77]

Who's gonna say it?

 

Negative pitching WAR. It had never been done until 2020. Look for yourself.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1901&ind=1&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1901-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31&sort=20,a

[King]

Negative pitching WAR. It had never been done until 2020. Look for yourself.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1901&ind=1&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1901-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31&sort=20,a

 

Wow!

[Jimcanuck]

Negative pitching WAR. It had never been done until 2020. Look for yourself.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1901&ind=1&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1901-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31&sort=20,a

 

Meh, the weird COVID year result.

 

The query is for 1901 to 2020, and:

 

2020 Diamondbacks are #10

2020 Tigers are #12

2020 Marlins (playoff team!) are #15

2020 Rangers are #18

2021 Pirates are #21

 

In other words, false equivalency. Red Sox 2020 can't be called worst pitching ever based on 1/3 of a weird season.

[Spanky99]

Meh, the weird COVID year result.

 

The query is for 1901 to 2020, and:

 

2020 Diamondbacks are #10

2020 Tigers are #12

2020 Marlins (playoff team!) are #15

2020 Rangers are #18

2021 Pirates are #21

 

In other words, false equivalency. Red Sox 2020 can't be called worst pitching ever based on 1/3 of a weird season.

 

I was thinking along the same lines, thanks for posting that. The Bosox still have a decent offense, those projections are fairly on point. And they won't be that bad again pitching this season, with Ed-Rod and Sale coming back eventually. Grant's right in that pitching was terrible. But, in a 3rd of a season that deserves an Asterisk.

[Laika]

Meh, the weird COVID year result.

 

The query is for 1901 to 2020, and:

 

2020 Diamondbacks are #10

2020 Tigers are #12

2020 Marlins (playoff team!) are #15

2020 Rangers are #18

2021 Pirates are #21

 

In other words, false equivalency. Red Sox 2020 can't be called worst pitching ever based on 1/3 of a weird season.

 

You'd expect teams with low positive WAR to show up on the rankings though. If you simply extrapolate the innings to a full season all of those teams are no longer on the first page. If you do that for Boston their s***** "lead" actually grows.

 

Of course you would project the 2020 Red Sox to be much better over the next 102 games and it's very likely they would have flipped the script and ended up with some positive WAR but it's still hilarious how bad they were.

 

Anyway, those 2006 Royals look like the worst rotation of the modern era by my money.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2006&month=0&season1=2006&ind=1&team=7&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2006-01-01&enddate=2006-12-31&sort=8,d

[Spanky99]

You'd expect teams with low positive WAR to show up on the rankings though. If you simply extrapolate the innings to a full season all of those teams are no longer on the first page. If you do that for Boston their s***** "lead" actually grows.

 

Of course you would project the 2020 Red Sox to be much better over the next 102 games and it's very likely they would have flipped the script and ended up with some positive WAR but it's still hilarious how bad they were.

 

Anyway, those 2006 Royals look like the worst rotation of the modern era by my money.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2006&month=0&season1=2006&ind=1&team=7&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2006-01-01&enddate=2006-12-31&sort=8,d

 

When I saw that I was like "f*** You, Royals"

[Jimcanuck]

You'd expect teams with low positive WAR to show up on the rankings though. If you simply extrapolate the innings to a full season all of those teams are no longer on the first page. If you do that for Boston their s***** "lead" actually grows.

 

Of course you would project the 2020 Red Sox to be much better over the next 102 games and it's very likely they would have flipped the script and ended up with some positive WAR but it's still hilarious how bad they were.

 

Anyway, those 2006 Royals look like the worst rotation of the modern era by my money.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2006&month=0&season1=2006&ind=1&team=7&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2006-01-01&enddate=2006-12-31&sort=8,d

 

Yeah but no COVID means E-Rod is pitching and -0.1 WAR turns positive. Among other things such as help from a full slate of minor league teams. Although Boston along with other problems doesn't have much minors pitching to draw on.

[connorp]

Yeah but no COVID means E-Rod is pitching and -0.1 WAR turns positive. Among other things such as help from a full slate of minor league teams. Although Boston along with other problems doesn't have much minors pitching to draw on.

 

Points here are getting mixed up. Laila’s post relates to past performance/2020. Doesn’t matter what the reason E Rod didn’t pitch was (or Sale for that matter). What will happen in 2021 is different

[Jimcanuck]

Points here are getting mixed up. Laila’s post relates to past performance/2020. Doesn’t matter what the reason E Rod didn’t pitch was (or Sale for that matter). What will happen in 2021 is different

 

Nothing is getting mixed up. 2020 stats have negligible meaning, full stop.

[Laika]

Nothing is getting mixed up. 2020 stats have negligible meaning, full stop.

 

Irrefutably the 2020 Red Sox pitching staff had the worst results in the history of baseball, at least by one measure. Nobody would claim anything other than that. Nobody would claim that their team talent was stable and predictive over those 60 games.

[jerb]

 

Gregory Balloch

@GregBalloch

 

James Paxton on @Sportsnet650 on whether the #BlueJays considered signing him:

 

“They showed a lot of interest, and I had interest too, but they never came forward with an offer.”