Blue Jays sign George Springer to a 6 year, $150M deal

[Brownie19]

Turf is an issue. Perception for players coming to TO and there is data as pointed out in the NFL article there is more injury risk. Not sure why this would not be/is not a consideration for a FA OF over 30 and a $150 m dollar investment?

 

You're suggesting the Jays should install grass this year to protect their investment in Springer and improve the ROI?

 

FFS man, they have already exhausted their efforts to install grass in the dome and concluded it's not feasible. No one player is going to change this evaluation.

[G-Snarls]

You do realize 3 more MLB teams installed turf prior to 2020 bringing the total to 5. One of whom was Texas in a brand new stadium. On top of that, with no proper drainage the cost of installing a grass system in the Rogers Centre is a lot more than people think, if it is even possible.

 

I didn't know that actually, with all the other news distracting. Five teams now have turf:

 

Arizona Diamondbacks

Texas Rangers

Miami Marlins

Toronto Blue Jays

Tampa Bay Rays

 

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/sports/artificial-turf-comeback-major-league-baseball

 

The turf the Rangers, D-Backs and Marlins will be playing on is called B1K, and it is produced by Georgia-based Shaw Sports Turf. Though it is synthetic, the teams believe the imitation grass mimics the real thing in terms of how it plays and affects the bodies of players.

 

“We didn’t want the best turf surface in Major League Baseball, we wanted the best playing surface in Major League Baseball,” Rangers executive VP for business operations Rob Matwick told The Wall Street Journal. “People might say baseball should be played on grass. I’d say it should be played on the best quality surface we could put our players on.”

[Carlos Danger]

You're suggesting the Jays should install grass this year to protect their investment in Springer and improve the ROI?

 

FFS man, they have already exhausted their efforts to install grass in the dome and concluded it's not feasible. No one player is going to change this evaluation.

 

I was suggesting that the Jays should have put in grass when the Argos left, which was "supposed" to have been the tripwire that allowed grass.

 

The perception has existed, and still exists, among baseball players that the surface in TO is bad on/hard on the body. They put dirt in the IF, but that doesn't help OFs.

 

If you want to play with the big dogs, and you are willing to make these reported types of investments, surface should be a consideration.

 

If this new stuff is the s***, then great! However, why is the NFL complaining about it in the fall of this year and they only play 8 something Sundays, not 81 games a season.

 

I have also heard the same s*** about turf since the days of Exhibition stadium.. This stuff going in the Skydome is much better and easier on the body. Then in the early 2000s I think they put in new s***. Then the 2015 season or whatever it was, when we saw all those little flakes come up in the home opener when the ball hit the new turf.

 

What are the subsurface in Miami and Texas, is it turf on concrete or turf on dirt with a sub-base..? Pretty sure Marlins park is not concrete underneath.. But admittedly I don't know...

 

It is interesting as to the new turf, I hope it works. The fact of the matter is, and I have heard on the radio among ball players as recently as last week, there is a negative perception as to the turf at Rogers Center.

[Laika]

Synthetic Grass: Globe Life Field features a specially designed synthetic grass playing surface that was provided by Shaw Sports Turf with installation completed by Texas-based Paragon Sports Constructors. The choice to go with Shaw Sports Turf was rooted in data, and supported by extensive research as it relates to player safety. The goal was not to only have the highest performing synthetic grass but also to have the highest performing surface for baseball. GLF’s playing surface is the B1K natural system, which employs a natural, sustainable infill called Geofill. The system results in excellent ball surface and player surface interaction. B1K is a dual fiber turf system comprised of Shaw’s high-performance Strenexe® XD slit film and Bolt® monofilament. This system provides excellent durability and functionality by minimizing the infill from “splashing,” maintaining adequate infill levels across the field. The Bolt fiber provides realistic ball roll, friction and natural grass aesthetics. The Geofill infill used in the system is made of coconut husks and fibers, which is a rapidly renewable resource. The infill requires much less water than natural grass.

 

A concrete subsurface is the base of the turf system, which is extremely flat to accommodate the turf system, its buildup and layers, a drainage mat and a shock-resistant mat. The infield and warning track will be clay surfaces, There will also be a retractable mound for easy storage during non-baseball events on the field.

[Brownie19]

CD - the Jays have already investigated and concluded it's not feasible to grow grass in the dome. This isn't a thing.

[Carlos Danger]

CD - the Jays have already investigated and concluded it's not feasible to grow grass in the dome. This isn't a thing.

 

Ok, I though it was just cost. Last I had heard, (while ago) is that a Guelph University study they contracted laid out a plan how they could do it. If not an option, I guess they need to go with the best synthetic and I am glad they are. Kudos to the Jays.

 

The whole topic just makes me want a new stadium up there sooner than later..

 

Thanks

[Laika]

A new stadium will probably have turf too, if there are teams trending towards it in MLB.

[Abomination]

A new stadium will probably have turf too, if there are teams trending towards it in MLB.

 

 

As long as they're smart enough to design the stadium in such a way that they CAN put in grass if they decide to in the future.

[RobinThicc]

Teams are doing it because its cheaper to maintain turf.

 

Everything else is BS, and I'd be willing to bet the MLBPA feels the same way as the NFLPA, but because its only a handful of teams that have turf, its not much of an issue yet.

 

And I believe Shapiro did suggest the new stadium would have real grass, which was also reported in that globe and mail article.

[Abomination]

Teams are doing it because its cheaper to maintain turf.

 

Is it? It seems the lifespan of turf is only a couple years, and it isn't exactly cheap to replace. I'm pretty sure they have to do something to maintain the base it's on as well, so it's not like they can just set it and forget it.

[Carlos Danger]

Is it? It seems the lifespan of turf is only a couple years, and it isn't exactly cheap to replace. I'm pretty sure they have to do something to maintain the base it's on as well, so it's not like they can just set it and forget it.

 

You would have to water and maintain grass almost daily. Herbacide, cutting, and replacing with frequency... The weekly/monthly/yearly recurring costs vs change out the turf every few years probably makes grass more expensive long term and comes with a LOT more frequent recurring costs.

[RobinThicc]

Is it? It seems the lifespan of turf is only a couple years, and it isn't exactly cheap to replace. I'm pretty sure they have to do something to maintain the base it's on as well, so it's not like they can just set it and forget it.

 

Yeah, grass tends be a fair bit more expensive and the maintence expenses on a yearly basis are fair bit more than turf.

[Abomination]

You would have to water and maintain grass almost daily. Herbacide, cutting, and replacing with frequency... The weekly/monthly/yearly recurring costs vs change out the turf every few years probably makes grass more expensive long term and comes with a LOT more frequent recurring costs.

 

This is what Cornell University says about the maintenance of artificial turf:

 

[h=3]Routine Maintenance overview by Cornell University Sports Field Management:[/h]

"Some basic practices must be made on a routine basis to protect your investment including:

 

1. Measuring field hardness periodically to ensure the level of hardness is lower than the 200 Gmax level. At least once a year.
   
2. Sweeping and dragging to keep the carpet fibers in an upright position. Once a week or once a month depending on use.
   
3. Loosening and redistributing of infill (to improve footing, reduce static electricity and improve the look of the field). Groom fields before each game.
   
4. Checking and replenishing the infill level especially in high use areas. The infill creates the padding and shock-absorption for the synthetic turf system and restores the field’s resiliency. At least once a year. It takes about 20 tons of crumb rubber to provide ¼ inch layer.
   
5. Using a vacuum or leaf blower to remove debris like sunflower seeds. After each game.
   
6. Cleaning with special solvents and cleansers with difficult to remove items. After each game.
   
7. Treating with anti-microbial products to remove bacterial growth. Weekly to monthly.
   
8. Troubleshooting for common problems and minor repairs, such as seam repair. Frequently.
   
9. Removing snow during winter months."
   

[Carlos Danger]

This is what Cornell University says about the maintenance of artificial turf:

 

[h=3]Routine Maintenance overview by Cornell University Sports Field Management:[/h]

"Some basic practices must be made on a routine basis to protect your investment including:

 

1. Measuring field hardness periodically to ensure the level of hardness is lower than the 200 Gmax level. At least once a year.
   
2. Sweeping and dragging to keep the carpet fibers in an upright position. Once a week or once a month depending on use.
   
3. Loosening and redistributing of infill (to improve footing, reduce static electricity and improve the look of the field). Groom fields before each game.
   
4. Checking and replenishing the infill level especially in high use areas. The infill creates the padding and shock-absorption for the synthetic turf system and restores the field’s resiliency. At least once a year. It takes about 20 tons of crumb rubber to provide ¼ inch layer.
   
5. Using a vacuum or leaf blower to remove debris like sunflower seeds. After each game.
   
6. Cleaning with special solvents and cleansers with difficult to remove items. After each game.
   
7. Treating with anti-microbial products to remove bacterial growth. Weekly to monthly.
   
8. Troubleshooting for common problems and minor repairs, such as seam repair. Frequently.
   
9. Removing snow during winter months."
   

 

This is for like high school baseball fields and little league etc

 

Maintenance costs for grass were estimated at $23,000 per year, while annual maintenance costs for synthetic turf were estimated at $5,000.

 

https://fieldturf.com/en/articles/detail/turf-vs-grass-cost/

[Carlos Danger]

So since the FA season is so dead and not much else to talk about. I will go ahead and get someone fired up;)

 

I heard an ex GM's comments this AM, or yesterday AM..? It is all a blur..

 

Anyway... His theory is the Blue Jays were estimating Springer to come in at $120-$125 max. They were/are fine with that and started talking with a lot of confidence in interviews etc. When the "supposed" number became $150 plus, the Jays were like s***... and it tempered their public "confidence" and strategy.

 

Who knows.. But something to discuss.. LOL

[Brownie19]

I highly doubt a team is choosing turf due to the maintenance costs of grass. That sounds f***ing stupid.

[Jimcanuck]

I highly doubt a team is choosing turf due to the maintenance costs of grass. That sounds f***ing stupid.

 

More likely, it's to increase the versatility of the stadium. Concerts, etc.

[Laika]

I highly doubt a team is choosing turf due to the maintenance costs of grass. That sounds f***ing stupid.

 

Lower long-term cost would just be one of many factors.

[Abomination]

This is for like high school baseball fields and little league etc

 

Maintenance costs for grass were estimated at $23,000 per year, while annual maintenance costs for synthetic turf were estimated at $5,000.

 

https://fieldturf.com/en/articles/detail/turf-vs-grass-cost/

 

Even if we take that, which is not in line with the Cornell (unbiased) review which is based on actual costs of various college fields, when you factor in the initial cost over a recommended 10 year maximum period you get an additional 35K per year in cost for the artificial turf. I doubt the MLB teams will keep it in place for the recommended 10 years either.

 

Regardless, we're talking about cost totals low enough that it isn't going to have any measurable impact on the decisions made by an MLB team.

[Jays24]

If the Mets also sign Springer, what level of panic do we have as Jays fans?

[G-Snarls]

If the Mets also sign Springer, what level of panic do we have as Jays fans?

 

[wilko]

If the Mets also sign Springer, what level of panic do we have as Jays fans?

 

[Ray]

If the Mets also sign Springer, what level of panic do we have as Jays fans?

 

I think they'd rather sign another starter. They just added McCann & Lindor to a team that was Top 3 in OPS in the NL. If anything goes wrong with the Mets next year, my guess is it'll be because lack of starting depth (like this year).

 

Who knows with Cohen though. I wouldn't be surprised if he does still want to throw money at Springer.

[Scion]

If the Mets also sign Springer, what level of panic do we have as Jays fans?

 

The Mets are still favourites to sign Springer. I wouldn't panic based on that tbh. There are still really good players available.

[Brownie19]

I wonder if the NL DH ruling is affecting them. If they need to put Dom Smith in LF, do they have room for Springer?

[Carlos Danger]

I wonder if the NL DH ruling is affecting them. If they need to put Dom Smith in LF, do they have room for Springer?

 

They will then have guys like JD Davis etc to trade to Colorado for Arenado..

[G-Snarls]

Andy Martino of SNY is in MLB network

 

Tidbits:

 

Mets have been working on this trade for months

 

They won't go over the luxury tax and are already up to about 190M in payroll.

 

Getting Springer is now less likely. They'd have to trade salary away or back load a contract.

 

Springer was.offered 5 years 115M by the Jays

 

Mets aren't looking for any more starting pitching so not in on Paxton or Bauer

 

Not sure how accurate rhat all is but he seemed to have some inside scoop

[Spanky99]

Andy Martino of SNY is in MLB network

 

Tidbits:

 

Mets have been working on this trade for months

 

They won't go over the luxury tax and are already up to about 190M in payroll.

 

Getting Springer is now less likely. They'd have to trade salary away or back load a contract.

 

Springer was.offered 5 years 115M by the Jays

 

They aren't looking for any more starting pitching so not in on Paxton or Bauer

 

Not sure how accurate rhat all is but he seemed to have some inside scoop

 

That dude is so cocky, but he's the Mets Shi Davidi.

[Laika]

lol, 5/$115 for Springer would be sweet.

[saskjayfan]

That dude is so cocky, but he's the Mets Shi Davidi.

 

Just offer 5 and 125 and get it done.