Around Baseball 2021

[G-Snarls]

Watching Bonds in the early 2000's was like watching a grown man play against a bunch of kids

[Stangstag]

Watching Bonds in the early 2000's was like watching a grown man play against a bunch of kids

 

That’s the thing. Bonds is 100% top 5 greatest player of all time.

 

Yes he was juicing, but so was likely 90% of the league at that time. And he was STILL so much better than his peers. You can’t teach pitch recognition and plate discipline which were a huge part of his game.

 

IMO Bonds is THE greatest player of all time.

[Grant77]

That’s the thing. Bonds is 100% top 5 greatest player of all time.

 

Yes he was juicing, but so was likely 90% of the league at that time. And he was STILL so much better than his peers. You can’t teach pitch recognition and plate discipline which were a huge part of his game.

 

IMO Bonds is THE greatest player of all time.

 

Babe Ruth is still the superior hitter even if you ignore the steroids and Ruth's pitching statistics. I'm still in awe every time I look at his stat sheet. Anything below 10 WAR was a down year for him.

[Stangstag]

Babe Ruth is still the superior hitter even if you ignore the steroids and Ruth's pitching statistics. I'm still in awe every time I look at his stat sheet. Anything below 10 WAR was a down year for him.

 

I disagree for the sole reason that MLB was a joke in Ruth’s era. I personally don’t give a s*** about stats from the freaking 1920s

[Grant77]

I disagree for the sole reason that MLB was a joke in Ruth’s era. I personally don’t give a s*** about stats from the freaking 1920s

 

Not caring about baseball history is a perfectly valid opinion, but Babe Ruth was still a better player. Measuring players against their peers is the one and only way to evaluate them.

[THANOS]

I disagree for the sole reason that MLB was a joke in Ruth’s era. I personally don’t give a s*** about stats from the freaking 1920s

 

Well I mean, I read that guys topped out mostly in the high 80s/low 90s, but the attached article has some guys like Walter Johnson & Bob Feller hitting Upper 90s. So who knows.

[Jimcanuck]

I disagree for the sole reason that MLB was a joke in Ruth’s era. I personally don’t give a s*** about stats from the freaking 1920s

 

Ted Williams has a 188 career wRC+, spent three years of his 10+ WAR/year peak fighting in WWII, and no 'roids.

 

Bonds has a 173 career wRC+, with 'roids, juiced ball era.

 

Not saying Williams is better than Bonds, or vice versa, but that no one can conclusively say "this player is the best all time".

[Laika]

Ted Williams has a 188 career wRC+, spent three years of his 10+ WAR/year peak fighting in WWII, and no 'roids.

 

Bonds has a 173 career wRC+, with 'roids, juiced ball era.

 

Not saying Williams is better than Bonds, or vice versa, but that no one can conclusively say "this player is the best all time".

 

For all we know Ted Williams was on speed and experimental US GOV drugs his entire career

[wamco]

For all we do know , bonds was cheating.

 

I’m gonna laugh my ass off when him and pocket rocket get denied again this year

[Scion]

Not caring about baseball history is a perfectly valid opinion, but Babe Ruth was still a better player. Measuring players against their peers is the one and only way to evaluate them.

 

 

It's hard to even do that when players in Ruth's era did not compete against African Americans and international athletes.

[Scion]

Ted Williams has a 188 career wRC+, spent three years of his 10+ WAR/year peak fighting in WWII, and no 'roids.

 

Bonds has a 173 career wRC+, with 'roids, juiced ball era.

 

Not saying Williams is better than Bonds, or vice versa, but that no one can conclusively say "this player is the best all time".

 

If you don't compete against black athletes I feel very strongly in asserting that you are not the best of all time.

[connorp]

If you don't compete against black athletes I feel very strongly in asserting that you are not the best of all time.

 

Blacks aren’t genetically superior to whites in baseball. I don’t think it’s even true of Latinos. Take Wander Franco for instance, undoubtedly a generational talent, dropped out of school in the 6th grade to play baseball full time (and really let’s be fair that bb was coming before school even before then). Maybe that extra time isn’t going to make someone generational but it’s sure going to make an already mlb talent, better

[connorp]

Most of baseball “evolution” is training/intense training earlier. Take the velocity change that was mentioned here recently. You think that’s “evolution” in a span of a decade

[The Cats Ass]

Blacks aren’t genetically superior to whites in baseball. I don’t think it’s even true of Latinos. Take Wander Franco for instance, undoubtedly a generational talent, dropped out of school in the 6th grade to play baseball full time (and really let’s be fair that bb was coming before school even before then). Maybe that extra time isn’t going to make someone generational but it’s sure going to make an already mlb talent, better

 

It's more the fact that you're pulling from just a portion of the talent pool. It'd be like cutting out half the MLB batters and half the pitchers Bonds faced and replacing that half with scrubs from the minors. If you did that his WAR/wRC+ would go up because the stats of an "average" player would go down and change what a replacement player is.

[connorp]

Mickey Mantle was playing in the sandlots going into hs. Now 7u kids have private pitching coaches lol

[connorp]

The “evolution” of athletes the last 100 years in height and stature is simply due to better nutrition and health. Now we’re seeing an even more micro-focused version of that with advances in protein intake, specialized training, etc… all that s***. That’s what separates the times, not 10% of the population couldn’t play. Just a lefty principle

[connorp]

The question becomes are you talking about how Babe Ruth would do next year if we took him out of time machine, or if we made a Babe Ruth Jurassic Park-style from the embryo

[bronson44]

I mean, how toxic could he be? Guy's a good player.

 

Pretty toxic if no one is interested. Look at how many complete losers there are still playing in pro baseball with history of s***** behavior (in all sports for that matter).

 

If an organization thinks you're good enough to help them win on the field they'll overlook almost any past transgression. Either Puig just isn't any good anymore, or he truly is a Grade A piece of s*** person.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/report-yasiel-puig-faced-two-sexual-assault-allegations-in-2017.html

[Laika]

If you don't compete against black athletes I feel very strongly in asserting that you are not the best of all time.

 

Bit of a logical leap there. You cannot say "if you didn't compete against black athletes you are not the best of all time".

 

The most you can say is what Jim did "no one can conclusively say "this player is the best all time"."

[Dick_Pole]

The problem with Bonds is that he's so alpha that he even dominated taking steroids. I mean who else can take half a syringe of juice and immediately have his head grow to the size of a beachball and develop 27 inch biceps? Gregg Zaun probably juiced ten times what Bonds did but it had little physical impact. Bonds was way too noticeable for the pure blood baseball fans and critics to overlook. But are we really going to blame the man for being very efficient at taking steroids? Things just aren't fair.

[The_DH]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/report-yasiel-puig-faced-two-sexual-assault-allegations-in-2017.html

 

the investigation results must have been pretty bad. 3 known accusations is pretty big

[Laika]

The problem with Bonds is that he's so alpha that he even dominated taking steroids. I mean who else can take half a syringe of juice and immediately have his head grow to the size of a beachball and develop 27 inch biceps? Gregg Zaun probably juiced ten times what Bonds did but it had little physical impact. Bonds was way too noticeable for the pure blood baseball fans and critics to overlook. But are we really going to blame the man for being very efficient at taking steroids? Things just aren't fair.

 

Barry Bonds is a god. He headlines my Hall of Fame.

[Laika]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/12/report-yasiel-puig-faced-two-sexual-assault-allegations-in-2017.html

 

aha. there it is. the puig mystery has been solved.

[wilko]

aha. there it is. the puig mystery has been solved.

 

Yup. He's a piece of s***.

[wamco]

McGriff would have more votes by some if he had used PED, put up better stats AND gotten busted. Pretty messed up

[connorp]

Yup. He's a piece of s***.

 

Too good for Luba though lol

[Brownie19]

McGriff would have more votes by some if he had used PED, put up better stats AND gotten busted. Pretty messed up

 

The Crime Dog is getting into the HOF at some point.

[Stangstag]

Ted Williams has a 188 career wRC+, spent three years of his 10+ WAR/year peak fighting in WWII, and no 'roids.

 

Bonds has a 173 career wRC+, with 'roids, juiced ball era.

 

Not saying Williams is better than Bonds, or vice versa, but that no one can conclusively say "this player is the best all time".

 

I agree with this. Which is why I said Bonds is definitely top 5 all time.

 

I personally feel he’s number 1 and Williams might be 2.

[John_Havok]

The Crime Dog is getting into the HOF at some point.

 

McGriffs biggest problem is that his career started the exact same year as Bonds, Palmeiro and McGwire. Griff has a great career, but never had the same peaks as those guys did. That’s why he gets underrated for the Hall

[Jays24]

Barry Bonds is the best player I've seen play baseball and deserves to be in the hall of fame period. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents lol.