Around Baseball 2021

[glory]

I think the lesson learned in building a cheap pen is betting more on performance volatility and less on injury risk. The Jays literally signed Yates when he was hurt. Phelps had an injury history. Those were their two biggest pen signings along with Chatwood. Then factor in internal guys like Merryweather and Borucki who had extensive injury histories. I mean, every pitcher is an injury risk in general, but still. The Jays were betting on a lot of health luck.

[Laika]

I think the lesson learned in building a cheap pen is betting more on performance volatility and less on injury risk. The Jays literally signed Yates when he was hurt. Phelps had an injury history. Those were their two biggest pen signings along with Chatwood. Then factor in internal guys like Merryweather and Borucki who had extensive injury histories. I mean, every pitcher is an injury risk in general, but still. The Jays were betting on a lot of health luck.

 

Almost every reliever in baseball that can reasonably be acquired/signed has an extensive injury history. For many that is why they are relievers.

[Laika]

The lesson learned is if you have to fill out a bullpen from free agency every year, you're going to have a bad time.

 

There are basically four viable ways to build a pen:

 

1. spend a lot on it. not a great idea for most teams but can work for a rich team.

2. have a great pitching pipeline and let your cup runneth over. you end up putting guys in the pen that other teams might use as backend starters.

3. go the cheap route. you get less performance certainty but at least you aren't risking dollars or prospect capital.

4. be ahead of the curve at talent identification and constantly be tinkering, acquiring guys and turning over relievers. see the Rays.

 

Most teams are varying proportions of the four approaches.

 

Toronto is doing none of #1 and does not yet have #2 in place (although it might happen sooner than people think). This year is a bit of an indication that they aren't great at the #4 tactic either.

[Jimcanuck]

Almost every reliever in baseball that can reasonably be acquired/signed has an extensive injury history. For many that is why they are relievers.

 

Pearson...... *sigh*

[Laika]

Pearson...... *sigh*

 

I am kind of at the point where I don't even care if he starts of relieves for the rest of his Blue Jays career, as long as he can put some WARs on the board.

 

False dichotomy incoming but I'd rather have an elite closer than a middling SP who cannot stay healthy. On this team, for the next few years.

[Stangstag]

Well of course you can miss, trying to think of Jays big trades like that. Sergio Santos, Jeremy Accardo, who am i missing

 

Frank Francisco??

 

Also on the flipside, getting rid of Hendricks twice and getting nothing

[Stangstag]

I am kind of at the point where I don't even care if he starts of relieves for the rest of his Blue Jays career, as long as he can put some WARs on the board.

 

False dichotomy incoming but I'd rather have an elite closer than a middling SP who cannot stay healthy. On this team, for the next few years.

 

I agree with this. I’d say next year will pretty much cement/confirm what Pearson’s role will be. If he has another injury next year there’s no way he should continue on as a starter. He’s lost too much development time at this point.

[Olerud363]

I am kind of at the point where I don't even care if he starts of relieves for the rest of his Blue Jays career, as long as he can put some WARs on the board.

 

False dichotomy incoming but I'd rather have an elite closer than a middling SP who cannot stay healthy. On this team, for the next few years.

 

In 2015 they

 

1. Took 20 year old starters with 5 innings of a ball (Osuna, Castro)

2. 23 year old starters with more innings that were at Pearson level (Sanchez)

3. later 20s failed 20 starters (Cecil, Loup)

4. Trade for guys, Lowe, some other guy (Hawkins)

 

OK. Pearson, little guy who just got Tommy John, Borucki, Kay, big Canadian guy who Vlad mimicks, side armer guy who Vlad mimicks

 

greyed haired guy who isn't really that old

 

Guys who owe them for injury rehab (Phelps, Yates)

 

Guys we don't know about yet

 

More old guys

 

Merryweather guy (arm is rested)

 

Why isn't all this going to be a great bullpen next year?

[Ray]

Small sample size, but Jarred Kelenic has been somehow worse since his returned to the majors:

 

1st call up (23 games): .378 OPS

2nd call up (10 game): .319 OPS

 

Big ooof.

[Stangstag]

Small sample size, but Jarred Kelenic has been somehow worse since his returned to the majors:

 

1st call up (23 games): .378 OPS

2nd call up (10 game): .319 OPS

 

Big ooof.

 

Jeez

[BTS]

TOS for Strasburg. He might be finished.

[Sorrow]

Strasburg is one of those guys you wonder what could've been. 10-11 year career with 36.6 fWAR and he was only healthy for a full season 5 times.

[Benito]

Strasburg is one of those guys you wonder what could've been. 10-11 year career with 36.6 fWAR and he was only healthy for a full season 5 times.

 

I remember how hyped he was going into the draft. Best pitching prospect in decades. Washington hit the lotto getting 2 generational talent in back to back years.

[connorp]

I remember how hyped he was going into the draft. Best pitching prospect in decades. Washington hit the lotto getting 2 generational talent in back to back years.

 

It was warranted though. I remember first game I watched him a few starts in and his balls were doing some straight voodoo s***

[Benito]

It was warranted though. I remember first game I watched him a few starts in and his balls were doing some straight voodoo s***

 

Oh no doubt. I thought for sure I was witnessing the start of a legendary hall of fame career.

[G-Snarls]

It was warranted though. I remember first game I watched him a few starts in and his balls were doing some straight voodoo s***

 

He has top 5 "stuff" of the last decade

 

Just can't stay healthy

[BTS]

Joey Votto quietly putting up a 134 wRC+ and closing in on 60 career fWAR. Probably the greatest Canadian to ever live.

[connorp]

Joey Votto quietly putting up a 134 wRC+ and closing in on 60 career fWAR. Probably the greatest Canadian to ever live.

 

Too much of a softball toss there

[Terminator]

Joey Votto quietly putting up a 134 wRC+ and closing in on 60 career fWAR. Probably the greatest Canadian to ever live.

 

Don Cherry, Pierre Trudeau and Wayne Gretzky are all greater IMO.

[Jimcanuck]

TOS for Strasburg. He might be finished.

 

5 years to go on his 7 Year, $245M deal

[connorp]

Small sample size, but Jarred Kelenic has been somehow worse since his returned to the majors:

 

1st call up (23 games): .378 OPS

2nd call up (10 game): .319 OPS

 

Big ooof.

 

2019 pipeline

1- Wander

2- Lux

4- Gore

5- Adell

7- Mize

9- Lewis

10- Pearson

11- Pache

12- McKay

13- Kelenic

14- Rodgers

15- Kiriloff

16- Whitley

17- Kopech

18- Luzardo

19- Bart

20- Kieboom

 

Not a lot of fast starts for that crew. Only Robert has debuted in Top 20 and been respectable over bigger sample, though obviously very sss for Wander and Kelenic, etc and plenty of time to turn around but no stars out of the gate and lots of big drops

[Brownie19]

2019 pipeline

1- Wander

2- Lux

4- Gore

5- Adell

7- Mize

9- Lewis

10- Pearson

11- Pache

12- McKay

13- Kelenic

14- Rodgers

15- Kiriloff

16- Whitley

17- Kopech

18- Luzardo

19- Bart

20- Kieboom

 

Not a lot of fast starts for that crew. Only Robert has debuted in Top 20 and been respectable over bigger sample, though obviously very sss for Wander and Kelenic, etc and plenty of time to turn around but no stars out of the gate and lots of big drops

 

Lewis has been good too - but your point stands.

 

I used this list to get back up to date on some of these prospects...what's up with Whitley? Hasn't pitched this year at all? Is he going through a Doc transformation?

[connorp]

Royce Lewis, sorry..

he falls under the steep drop category

[Brownie19]

Royce Lewis, sorry..

he falls under the steep drop category

 

oh s*** - my bad.

[Laika]

There is something poetic about what happened with Blake Snell. Complains about his team trading veterans to the Padres then gets traded to the Padres himself and sucks farts.

[BTS]

Toro has homered in his first two games with Seattle. Maybe Kyle Seager or whoever will stop trying to run the team from the dugout now.

[Benito]

Toro has homered in his first two games with Seattle. Maybe Kyle Seager or whoever will stop trying to run the team from the dugout now.

 

Might go off like Willy Adames after a change in scenery. Kelenic I see is still struggling hard to adjust to the majors, in his second stint. No knock on him. The majors is frigging hard. It just makes what phenoms like Soto, Acuna, and Tatis did so special. Even Vlad took a couple of tries.

[connorp]

Might go off like Willy Adames after a change in scenery. Kelenic I see is still struggling hard to adjust to the majors, in his second stint. No knock on him. The majors is frigging hard. It just makes what phenoms like Soto, Acuna, and Tatis did so special. Even Vlad took a couple of tries.

 

Well Vlads issue was he was only slightly better than league avg at 19yo

[Spanky99]

Toro has homered in his first two games with Seattle. Maybe Kyle Seager or whoever will stop trying to run the team from the dugout now.

 

It's certainly Kyle *barking* lol.

[Spanky99]

Double header tomorrow... this puts Trea in protocol for 10 or 14 days?