Offseason Roster Thread (2020-2021)

[max silver]

Vlad's arm is elite though. Strong and accurate. Even if he is below average at fielding the ball at 3B, that arm could elevate him to average overall.

 

Anyway if he comes to camp in good shape, we will see what a difference it makes.

 

A good chunk of Vlad's errors at third come when he initially flubs up fielding the ball cleanly initially and then ends up rushing/airmailing the throw the first. He really needs to clean up the initial glovework if he's to take advantage of the strong throwing arm.

[Jimcanuck]

A good chunk of Vlad's errors at third come when he initially flubs up fielding the ball cleanly initially and then ends up rushing/airmailing the throw the first. He really needs to clean up the initial glovework if he's to take advantage of the strong throwing arm.

 

Glovework should improve with some fat out of the way.

[wilko]

Vlad's arm is elite though. Strong and accurate. Even if he is below average at fielding the ball at 3B, that arm could elevate him to average overall.

 

Anyway if he comes to camp in good shape, we will see what a difference it makes.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/guerrero-jr-airmails-throw-third-dominican-winter-league/

[G-Snarls]

The odds of Vlad becoming an average 3B defensively, much less a good one, are so small that I'm not sure what the point of putting him there in 2021 would be aside from appeasing his ego.

 

I know what you mean. I'd almost rather not even go there at this point but they seem committed to one more try.

 

I guess you give him the winter in the DWL, plus spring training and a maybe a couple of months of the regular season to see if it looks like he can stick at 3rd.

 

Small chance he becomes, at best, a non/minor liability there.

 

More likely he's still bad to terrible, but at least you let him try and can then move him to permanent 1B/DH and he knows you at least gave him a chance. (FWIW this is exactly what the Yankees and Gary Sanchez are doing right now as well)

 

The problem of course is that if June 2021 he's still the worst fielding 3B in the league you've perhaps missed a chance to improve the overall roster right now by getting a solid fielding/batting infielder, AND Vlad missed a good oportunity to work on maybe playing FIRST base. The best option is probably getting one more quality infielder anyway and letting the chips fall where they may over the next 6 months.

[G-Snarls]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/guerrero-jr-airmails-throw-third-dominican-winter-league/

 

We got spoiled a bit with Lawrie and Donaldson that's for sure...

[max silver]

We got spoiled a bit with Lawrie and Donaldson that's for sure...

 

Not to mention Scott Rolen a little further back. He was just so amazing in the field, I doubt we'll ever see another third baseman that is as consistent throwing strikes across the infield. He hit the first baseman right in the chest every single time, no matter how difficult the play was fielding the ball in the first place.

[wilko]

Not to mention Scott Rolen a little further back. He was just so amazing in the field, I doubt we'll ever see another third baseman that is as consistent throwing strikes across the infield. He hit the first baseman right in the chest every single time, no matter how difficult the play was fielding the ball in the first place.

 

Loved Rolen when he was with the Jays. Can't forget about Troy Glaus as well!

[Sammy225]

Loved Rolen when he was with the Jays. Can't forget about Troy Glaus as well!

 

I want to say Scott Rolen with one of the best defensive third baseman (yes short stint) we have had at the corner. He was very sure handed. I don't remember anything about big Troys D

[Grant77]

I want to say Scott Rolen with one of the best defensive third baseman (yes short stint) we have had at the corner. He was very sure handed. I don't remember anything about big Troys D

 

Very sure handed with a strong and accurate arm, but his range was limited as he aged.

[xposbrad]

Next year DJ will be playing in his age 32 season. He will be playing his age 36 season the final year of a 5 year deal. You're not wrong though. He's an old 32! The mid year cutoff for age is something to consider. If he was born a few weeks earlier he would be considered as playing his age 33 season this year.

 

Very few players keep their same level of play through their mid 30s. Remember some people here wanted JB signed to some crazy contract when he was like 35. Thankfully we didn't, but you have to be very diligent. There will always be free agents to sign, there's no need to get locked down to a declining asset with an age risk.

[max silver]

Very sure handed with a strong and accurate arm, but his range was limited as he aged.

 

I recall that Glaus dealt with chronic plantar fasciitis which greatly reduced his mobility.

[Olerud363]

I want to say Scott Rolen with one of the best defensive third baseman (yes short stint) we have had at the corner. He was very sure handed. I don't remember anything about big Troys D

 

In 2006 Troy played a couple of games at ss when a flyball pitcher was in... It didn't last long as John McDonald took over short for a couple of years starting about that time.

 

John McDonald was fun to watch but would the better team of had Glauss at short and Erik Hinske at third and McDonald defensive replacement / occasional starter.

 

1. John McDonald was a negative WAR player despite the defense.

2. If Ripken and 2016 Tulo (who turned doubles into singles) could play + short stop Glauss could of played "not disastrous" short stop

3. Erik Hinske was repeating his rookie season in 2006 but had no where to play.

 

The 2006 team was a team that needed 2020 management style. Lot's of good players that didn't quite work together.

[G-Snarls]

Very few players keep their same level of play through their mid 30s. Remember some people here wanted JB signed to some crazy contract when he was like 35. Thankfully we didn't, but you have to be very diligent. There will always be free agents to sign, there's no need to get locked down to a declining asset with an age risk.

 

It still blows my mind that at one point superstar players/face of franchise players would routinely agree to short contracts with the Jays in their later years. You just don't expect that anymore. Jose Canseco, Frank Thomas, Paul Molitor, Roger Clemens etc. Maybe we're so good for a while we get to see Kershaw, Trout and Freeman don Jays uniforms at some point. LOL.

 

Edit: I suppose *some* of those guys I mentioned may have had some help extending their careers with stuff you can't get away with anymore...

Edited December 24, 2020 by G-Snarls

[Thaddeus Malice]

In 2006 Troy played a couple of games at ss when a flyball pitcher was in... It didn't last long as John McDonald took over short for a couple of years starting about that time.

 

John McDonald was fun to watch but would the better team of had Glauss at short and Erik Hinske at third and McDonald defensive replacement / occasional starter.

 

1. John McDonald was a negative WAR player despite the defense.

2. If Ripken and 2016 Tulo (who turned doubles into singles) could play + short stop Glauss could of played "not disastrous" short stop

3. Erik Hinske was repeating his rookie season in 2006 but had no where to play.

 

The 2006 team was a team that needed 2020 management style. Lot's of good players that didn't quite work together.

 

Yeah looking at that squad the position players were super deep. 6 of them put up over 3 WAR (Well, Johnson, Rios, Glaus, Hill, and Overbay). The catcher combo of Molina and Zaun combined for over 3 WAR as well. Then you had Hillenbrand, Hinkse and Cattalanato hitting solidly from the DH/Bench.

 

Pitching (with Josh Towers putting up like the worst season ever) and SS (I forgot how much Russ Adams sucked) really let them down that year.

[Brownie19]

I want to say Scott Rolen was one of the best defensive third baseman (yes short stint) we have had at the corner. He was very sure handed. I don't remember anything about big Troys D

 

Rolen's the 5th best defensive 3rd basemen in the history of baseball, so I think that's a safe statement.

[Spanky99]

Rolen's the 5th best defensive 3rd basemen in the history of baseball, so I think that's a safe statement.

 

lol... this did cross my mind when I read it. I thought he was the 2nd best all time, derp.

[polar bear]

Loved Rolen when he was with the Jays. Can't forget about Troy Glaus as well!

 

Gruber/mulliniks.not too bad either.

[Ryu In My House]

I recall that Glaus dealt with chronic plantar fasciitis which greatly reduced his mobility.

 

Yet, IIRC, he played some SS for the Jays during his stint with us and didn't look terrible. I have not gone to Fangraphs to see his metrics playing there

[G-Snarls]

Free-agent infielder Ha-Seong Kim has received “several” offers of at least five years, according to Daniel Kim of ESPN. Major league teams have until Jan. 1 to sign him.

 

Although he hasn’t played a game in the majors, the 25-year-old Kim entered the offseason as one of the most coveted free agents available. Kim starred in the Korea Baseball Organization from 2014-20, during which he slashed .294/.373/.493 with 133 home runs and 134 stolen bases in 3,664 plate appearances. KBO’s Kiwoom Heroes then posted Kim for MLB teams, and MLBTR predicted he would sign a five-year, $40MM deal in free agency.

 

So far, the Blue Jays and Rangers are teams with known interest in Kim. He joins Didi Gregorius, Marcus Semien and Andrelton Simmons as prominent free-agent shortstops. Although they’re more proven than Kim, he might out-earn all of them if multiple five-year proposals are on the table.

[Spanky99]

Free-agent infielder Ha-Seong Kim has received “several” offers of at least five years, according to Daniel Kim of ESPN. Major league teams have until Jan. 1 to sign him.

 

Although he hasn’t played a game in the majors, the 25-year-old Kim entered the offseason as one of the most coveted free agents available. Kim starred in the Korea Baseball Organization from 2014-20, during which he slashed .294/.373/.493 with 133 home runs and 134 stolen bases in 3,664 plate appearances. KBO’s Kiwoom Heroes then posted Kim for MLB teams, and MLBTR predicted he would sign a five-year, $40MM deal in free agency.

 

So far, the Blue Jays and Rangers are teams with known interest in Kim. He joins Didi Gregorius, Marcus Semien and Andrelton Simmons as prominent free-agent shortstops. Although they’re more proven than Kim, he might out-earn all of them if multiple five-year proposals are on the table.

 

This has been posted!

[Jays24]

This has been posted!

 

There are like 3 threads where everyone talks about the same thing almost... this happens a lot lol.

[wamco]

Ignore him. 2:50 pm post on Xmas. Suffice to say eggnog is ripping through his veins

[Spanky99]

Ignore him. 2:50 pm post on Xmas. Suffice to say eggnog is ripping through his veins

 

f*** you, goof.

[AdamGreenwood]

This has been posted!

 

Huge overpay. Thames never had an OPS less than 1.100 in the KBO, and while he was decent in MLB, he wasn't amazing.

Paying $8 million a season for a guy with an OPS under .900 in the KBO doesn't seem smart.

[Spanky99]

Huge overpay. Thames never had an OPS less than 1.100 in the KBO, and while he was decent in MLB, he wasn't amazing.

Paying $8 million a season for a guy with an OPS under .900 in the KBO doesn't seem smart.

 

Projections agree with you on the bat, but we'll never know till he plays, he's 25 played 7 years in the KBO with excellent numbers, above average speed and defense, we'll see shortly. A 50FV kid, sounds sexy. I wouldn't be upset.

[max silver]

Huge overpay. Thames never had an OPS less than 1.100 in the KBO, and while he was decent in MLB, he wasn't amazing.

Paying $8 million a season for a guy with an OPS under .900 in the KBO doesn't seem smart.

 

Thames offered little to no value defensively, and was much older than Kim by the time he returned to MLB from Korea. He was a flawed player in his initial stint in MLB which was a big part of why he ended up oversees in the first place. Upon his return he remained a limited defender with the same issue with strikeouts at the plate. One less than stellar return to MLB by an older player who is a poor defender at baseballs easiest positions doesn't automatically rule out success by a much younger middle infielder.

 

Kim has been projected to have nearly 4 win upside if he can hit major league pitching. Kim certainly has potential to be a bit of an overpay if the bat doesn't work out, but he and Eric Thames aren't even remotely similar as players. Directly comparing the two is a complete apples to oranges scenario. This is pretty similar to suggesting that Sugano will not have MLB success because Yamaguchi has struggled initially. In each example they are different players with different skill sets.

[Laika]

Huge overpay. Thames never had an OPS less than 1.100 in the KBO, and while he was decent in MLB, he wasn't amazing.

Paying $8 million a season for a guy with an OPS under .900 in the KBO doesn't seem smart.

 

Kim's last two seasons in the KBO aren't far off Thames' first and third years: 142 wRC+ vs. 165 for Thames.

Even more impressive is that Kim did that at 23 and 24 years old and with better contact numbers than Thames.

 

He doesn't have to be a great MLB hitter to be valuable if he carries any defensive value.

 

It is possible that teams will value his age too much and end up overpaying, but everyone in the industry is placing a premium on age these days, in all areas of player acquisition.

[saskjayfan]

so is it going to take until the 31st to announce the Kim signing or will the Jays wrap it up tomorrow?

[Spanky99]

so is it going to take until the 31st to announce the Kim signing or will the Jays wrap it up tomorrow?

 

Likely the 1st, for whomever gets him. I really thought there'd be movement, prior or at least now.

[Bturn2210]

Arihara's was announced the day prior for reference. Kim's could be announced anytime, we really don't know. Korean Media wrote in an article that Kim is in deep conversation with a team but they are haggling over a clause which prohibits him from being sent to the minors.