General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Spanky99]

And DJL is looking for 5 years. Agents need to try bro. Precedent isn’t on JT’s side. 5/100 would be fair normally. I hope Jays wait if that’s their big move. As others have said, there’s always next year’s crop

 

I’m also on Laila’s side that Jays already made a splash in past with solid hitting, really good defensive C... been there, done that. Hope they get a big bat somewhere else

 

What precedent? Realmuto is miles better than the other catching crop in the MLB.

[G-Snarls]

What precedent? Realmuto is miles better than the other catching crop in the MLB.

 

I think he was referring to the Jays signing Russel Martin, but I don't see how that has anything to do with decisions to be made this off season

[Orgfiller]

What precedent? Realmuto is miles better than the other catching crop in the MLB.

 

Connorp has a point though, there is precedent for Realmuto. 31 year old Grandal signed for 4/73, 32 year old Martin signed for 5/82. Realmuto will be 30 years old to begin next season and is similarly valued to those two, arguably even less valuable - Grandal who is 2 years older projects to be better next season. He's a far better baserunner, worse defender and similar hitter. You can say his athleticism is better so maybe he'll age more gracefully, but he's still a catcher at the end of the day and he should be expected to age like one. Realmuto can aim for 5/125 all he wants but precedent states he should be very content with 5/100 if any team is offering that, and is likely to receive even less than that.

 

Another comparable - 30 year old Brian McCann signed for 5/85 with the Yankees.

 

I sure hope he's not aiming for Buster Posey or Joe Mauer money - both guys who were younger, franchise cornerstones on Hall of Fame career paths.

[connorp]

Yeah 5/90 may be the more reasonable number

[L54]

I think I could stomach 5/90. 5/125 is a definite no fly zone for me.

[Grant77]

I think I could stomach 5/90. 5/125 is a definite no fly zone for me.

 

I could handle 5/90 for Realmuto as our impact signing if we can address another hole with our young catching. I'm thinking a guy like Harrison Bader or Victor Robles, someone young with control.

[dineke]

Don't see why they would spend money on realmuto when we have two good young catchers. That would be a signing just to please fans if they don't land any other big piece.

[Laika]

Don't see why they would spend money on realmuto when we have two good young catchers. That would be a signing just to please fans if they don't land any other big piece.

 

Most serious suggestions have them then flipping a catcher or two in trade. It's a little too convoluted for me to give it serious consideration. I think this front office is "open to anything" and they are probably laying the groundwork just in case for some big move that has them signing Realmuto and flipping Jansen or Kirk, but that has to just be soooooo far down the list of things likely to happen. They'd have to miss out on a lot of free agents and for some reason feel like they need to spend big money this offseason (use or lose it budget confidence? I dunno).

[glory]

The Phillies just gave Dombrowski $20m over four years. I don't think they hired him to rebuild or significantly cut payroll, so JTR going back to Philly has probably become a real possibility now.

 

I tend to agree that the Jays are open to anything but are more likely to hit the middle of the market unless a big name falls to them. Springer (Mets), DJ (Yanks), JTR (Phils?), Bauer (Angels?) all seem like long shots now. The Jays are probably shopping in the Kim, Brantley, JBJ, Sugano, Paxton, Odorizzi, etc, market but are waiting to see what happens to the big dogs first.

[jerb]

 

Rob Longley

@longleysunsport

 

#Bluejays president Mark Shapiro says the team is still hopeful it will open the season (April 8) in Toronto. “We want to play in Toronto. We want to play in Canada. That’s our hope.”

 

Rob Longley

@longleysunsport

 

Shapiro said whether it’s four “very good” players or two “elite” players “I’m 100 per cent confident we will get better.” #Bluejays

 

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Timing tough to predict. Some teams still finalizing baseball ops leaders. And some teams don't have certainty on budgets, which creates "a drag on the market" per Shapiro

 

So some business will push to January. But "I think the next 2 weeks will be a busy 2 weeks," Shapiro said.

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith

@bnicholsonsmith

 

Some news: #BlueJays are adding new turf at Rogers Centre for 2021 (yes, they still hope to play there). This turf will be permanently affixed to the ground with no seams, which is preferable to the seams that existed before. "A better baseball environment for sure," Shapiro said

[Brownie19]

For what it's worth he'll be in his age 31 season even if he'll be 32 at the end of the year.

 

I never look at it that way.

 

If you're born in 1989, regardless of whether it's in February or October - 2021 will be your age 32 season. Do others look at it differently?

[Orgfiller]

I never look at it that way.

 

If you're born in 1989, regardless of whether it's in February or October - 2021 will be your age 32 season. Do others look at it differently?

 

Yes.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Baseball_age

Baseball age is a player's age on June 30 of the year in question.

 

June 30 was picked because it is approximately the middle of each major league baseball season, and thus baseball age reflects the age that a player is for the majority of the season. It allows observers to use only one age for a player for each season.

 

A player born on December 1989 and a player born on January 1990 are one month apart but your reasoning makes it seem like they would be playing in their ages 31 and 32 seasons respectively which makes a big difference. This is especially important when considering prospect ages. A prospect one month apart from another is negligible in age but 1 year apart can make a huge difference in valuation. Their "in season age" tries to account for this as best as possible.

[RustyTrombone]

Woah thats the first ive heard of them officially saying they are targeting 2 "elite" players. I always thought the plan was target 1 of the elite FAs and get a another 1 or 2 secondary market guys. Damn they must have a lot of cash to blow this winter.

[Brownie19]

Yes.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Baseball_age

 

 

A player born on December 1989 and a player born on January 1990 are one month apart but your reasoning makes it seem like they would be playing in their ages 31 and 32 seasons respectively which makes a big difference. This is especially important when considering prospect ages. A prospect one month apart from another is negligible in age but 1 year apart can make a huge difference in valuation. Their "in season age" tries to account for this as best as possible.

 

Interesting - I never knew that. I guess that's the best way to do it, but it's still dumb that a player born June 29th is considered a year older than one born July 1st. Point still stands that a 5 year deal seems way too long for Sugano.

[Jimcanuck]

Woah thats the first ive heard of them officially saying they are targeting 2 "elite" players. I always thought the plan was target 1 of the elite FAs and get a another 1 or 2 secondary market guys. Damn they must have a lot of cash to blow this winter.

 

Depends on how one defines elite. Shapiro's job in part is to excite the fanbase.

[Deadpool]

Interesting - I never knew that. I guess that's the best way to do it, but it's still dumb that a player born June 29th is considered a year older than one born July 1st. Point still stands that a 5 year deal seems way too long for Sugano.

 

Well, it would depend on dollar amounts... I'd do 5/50 w/o much hesitation.

[Jays24]

Depends on how one defines elite. Shapiro's job in part is to excite the fanbase.

 

I would say his job is to manage expectations. If they strike out, the blowback would be massive and actually very counterproductive to them in the short term. For the time being, they have the attention of all jays fans everywhere so let's see where that takes us.

[Key22]

I listen to the talking heads at Fan590 and I guess I don't really understand the notion of Brantly. My understanding is that he is a good defensive left fielder who would replace LGJ? But LGJ was a respectable defender and was quite impressed with the bat and is cheap and controlled for 4-5 more years no? I am not a big fan of adding by subtracting.

 

Acquiring a CF makes sense since it's a gaping hole. Acquiring a catcher makes sense depending on whether Jansen has reached his ceiling or not or what you think he is going forward. If you think he is going to be a solid catcher then JTR makes no sense.

 

How good would Biggio be in center field? If he serves as a solid defensive centerfielder with his current offense - that might be the best internal solution - then you overpay a DJL to play second/third and sign Ha-Seong Kim from Korea. Give Bichette the job at SS for 2021 and if he can't handle it - then next offseason you have a glut of shortstops to choose from. Austin Martin may be an option in 2022 as well. This would leave a bunch of cash left to address pitching. It also allows you another look at Hernandez (was he just hot for 60 games?) and Jansen (is he your long term solution or a mediocrity). Also, what is Pearson?

 

The Jays really shouldn't blow their wad on a team that scraped into the playoffs in a short season. It may yet be a mirage.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Key22

[Deadpool]

I listen to the talking heads at Fan590 and I guess I don't really understand the notion of Brantly. My understanding is that he is a good defensive left fielder who would replace LGJ? But LGJ was a respectable defender and was quite impressed with the bat and is cheap and controlled for 4-5 more years no? I am not a big fan of adding by subtracting.

 

Acquiring a CF makes sense since it's a gaping hole. Acquiring a catcher makes sense depending on whether Jansen has reached his ceiling or not or what you think he is going forward. If you think he is going to be a solid catcher then JTR makes no sense.

 

How good would Biggio be in center field? If he serves as a solid defensive centerfielder with his current offense - that might be the best internal solution - then you overpay a DJL to play second/third and sign Ha-Seong Kim from Korea. Give Bichette the job at SS for 2021 and if he can't handle it - then next offseason you have a glut of shortstops to choose from. Austin Martin may be an option in 2022 as well. This would leave a bunch of cash left to address pitching. It also allows you another look at Hernandez (was he just hot for 60 games?) and Jansen (is he your long term solution or a mediocrity). Also, what is Pearson?

 

The Jays really shouldn't blow their wad on a team that scraped into the playoffs in a short season. It may yet be a mirage.

 

Where does the idea that Biggio could play CF come from? He's not a good outfielder by either the numbers or the eye test. He CAN play OF in a pinch, but he's a negative defender at every position but 2B.

 

Edit: Not specifically singling you out, this isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion.

[Jays24]

Where does the idea that Biggio could play CF come from? He's not a good outfielder by either the numbers or the eye test. He CAN play OF in a pinch, but he's a negative defender at every position but 2B.

 

Edit: Not specifically singling you out, this isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion.

 

Ya I agree. While biggjo can play a lot of positions, it doesn't mean he can play them well. It's a reason why I struggle coming up with a long term position for him if we acquire Lindor unless Bo can play 3B.

[max silver]

Ya I agree. While biggjo can play a lot of positions, it doesn't mean he can play them well. It's a reason why I struggle coming up with a long term position for him if we acquire Lindor unless Bo can play 3B.

 

If Bo can play short stop there's no reason he wouldn't be able to play third. I think he has the tools to become an excellent third baseman if that's where he ultimately ends up.

[saskjayfan]

Ya I agree. While biggjo can play a lot of positions, it doesn't mean he can play them well. It's a reason why I struggle coming up with a long term position for him if we acquire Lindor unless Bo can play 3B.

 

If we are truly entertaining the idea of Lindor I don't know why we aren't also in the mix for Story who probably wouldn't cost us Gurriel and would likely sign a cheaper extension.

[Jimcanuck]

If we are truly entertaining the idea of Lindor I don't know why we aren't also in the mix for Story who probably wouldn't cost us Gurriel and would likely sign a cheaper extension.

 

For his career Story is a 125 wRC+ bat at Coor's and 100 wRC+ elsewhere.

[Jimcanuck]

Ya I agree. While biggjo can play a lot of positions, it doesn't mean he can play them well. It's a reason why I struggle coming up with a long term position for him if we acquire Lindor unless Bo can play 3B.

 

With more reps I suspect Biggio would by mid season become one of the better LFs the Jays have run out there over the years.

[Jays24]

If we are truly entertaining the idea of Lindor I don't know why we aren't also in the mix for Story who probably wouldn't cost us Gurriel and would likely sign a cheaper extension.

 

You have to believe its because they have a connection with Lindor from their time in Cleveland. Also being able to rule out the Coors field factor that seems to influence people's thinking of Colorado players whether its justified or not l.

[Jays24]

With more reps I suspect Biggio would by mid season become one of the better LFs the Jays have run out there over the years.

 

Ya its very possible. I think him moving around so many positions could also hurt him in the long run since he doesn't get a chance to master one.

 

Problem is that we need a CF badly and we already have 3 corner OFers on the roster. Grichuk is going nowhere because of his contract and I can't see us trading both Gurriel and Teo. Teo is too young to become a DH at this stage either.

[Jimcanuck]

Ya its very possible. I think him moving around so many positions could also hurt him in the long run since he doesn't get a chance to master one.

 

Problem is that we need a CF badly and we already have 3 corner OFers on the roster. Grichuk is going nowhere because of his contract and I can't see us trading both Gurriel and Teo. Teo is too young to become a DH at this stage either.

 

Teo will get plenty of reps in the OF. Injuries, cycling the lineup, etc.

 

I do wonder if Kim can play CF. Plenty of speedy middle INFs have made an easy transition to CF.

[Grant77]

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/atkins-says-the-jays-feel-prepared-if-there-s-mutual-interest-from-ha-seong-kim~2097791

[Jimcanuck]

From a few days ago, Sportsnet:

 

"The most intriguing option for the Blue Jays is Kim, whose age, talent and versatility make him a rare commodity on the open market. Blue Jays scouts have been watching Kim for some time in anticipation of his posting and have continued to do due diligence on him this winter. They believe Kim’s athleticism could allow him to play all over the diamond, an obvious benefit for an organization that values versatility."

 

How does this look, defensively and offensively? And plenty of versatility.

 

Bichette - 3B (SS)

Biggio - 2B (3B/OF)

Lindor - SS

Vlad - 1B (DH/3B)

Hernandez - RF

Tellez - DH (1B)

Grichuk - LF (CF)

Jansen / Kirk - C

Kim - CF (SS/2B)

 

~$40M for Lindor and Kim, leaves some room to add pitching

[saskjayfan]

You have to believe its because they have a connection with Lindor from their time in Cleveland. Also being able to rule out the Coors field factor that seems to influence people's thinking of Colorado players whether its justified or not l.

 

It's the Coors field factor that attracts me to Story. wRC+ and OPS+ are park adjusted. Everything Story does at Coors is discounted. Travelling from elevation to sea level on the road is hard on the body. In addition to that adjusting to breaking balls that break a lot more than they do on the road is a very difficult endeavour. Nothing is added to a Rockies players wRC+ or OPS+ for the unique challenges they face on the road. When I look at a Rockies players wRC+ like Story's that's a career 114 I feel like he's more of a 120 or even slightly better player.

 

You are perhaps right about the connection. They may have a better shot at an extension with Lindor. You have to at least explore Story if you are going to get a short stop. I'm not sure I'd go that route if Bauer was a possibility. We need pitching.