General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Spanky99]

Franco has otherworldly strike zone management / discipline. A reasonable projection is Lindor type numbers with a OBP at least 50 points higher

 

Franco has been thrown out some 40% of SB attempts. Given that he's 5'10" and already ~200 lbs at 19 yrs, the SB totals may be low.

 

I'd take Franco long term, certainly take VGJ's bat.

 

You're an idiot!

[Jimcanuck]

Lindor has multiple 30+ HR seasons and perennially 4-7 WAR player. It just might be a tad premature to call Franco the next Lindor +0.50 OBP. I’d like to see an MLB season under his belt before reserving a spot for him in Cooperstown, especially for a switch hitter.

 

I said its a reasonable projection. Not saying it will happen.

 

Fangraphs has a FV of 80 on Franco. This corresponds to an expected peak WAR of > 7.0 by their own chart. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-new-fangraphs-scouting-primer/

[Spanky99]

I said its a reasonable projection. Not saying it will happen.

 

Jim's sly....

[Spanky99]

Jim's sly....

 

G'nite Jim!

[Jimcanuck]

G'nite Jim!

 

See my edit. I have Fangraphs in my corner on this one.

[glory]

Twitter timeline is talking about Game 3 of the 1993 World Series. I completely forgot that Cito benched John Olerud in that game so that Molitor could play 1B and Sprague could stay at 3B when THE VERY NEXT DAY he put Molitor at 3B and Olerud back at 1B. In other words, he intentionally benched one of the best hitters in the game that year for Ed freakin Sprague.

 

1993 Season

Olerud: 8.1 WAR, 179 wRC+, .363/.473/.599, 24 HR, 107 RBI, 679 PA

Sprague: 1.4 WAR, 85 wRC+, .260/.310/.386, 12 HR, 73 RBI, 596 PA

 

I included the traditional stats in there as well because those are what Cito (and to be fair most of the league) was looking at during those days, and it's still not close.

 

They were facing a lefty that game, so Cito likely went for the platoon advantage, except for this:

 

1993 vs LHP

Olerud: 213 PA, .291/.413/.424 (.838 OPS)

Sprague: 158 PA, .247/.304/.363 (.667 OPS)

 

I mean, we won the World Series that year (and won that game) so it's not a big deal but can you imagine that happening today? The Brewers benching Christian Yelich in a playoff game so Ben Gamel could stay in the lineup instead? Insanity. Luckily that 1993 lineup was deadly even without Olerud.

[Spanky99]

Twitter timeline is talking about Game 3 of the 1993 World Series. I completely forgot that Cito benched John Olerud in that game so that Molitor could play 1B and Sprague could stay at 3B when THE VERY NEXT DAY he put Molitor at 3B and Olerud back at 1B. In other words, he intentionally benched one of the best hitters in the game that year for Ed freakin Sprague.

 

1993 Season

Olerud: 8.1 WAR, 179 wRC+, .363/.473/.599, 24 HR, 107 RBI, 679 PA

Sprague: 1.4 WAR, 85 wRC+, .260/.310/.386, 12 HR, 73 RBI, 596 PA

 

I included the traditional stats in there as well because those are what Cito (and to be fair most of the league) was looking at during those days, and it's still not close.

 

They were facing a lefty that game, so Cito likely went for the platoon advantage, except for this:

 

1993 vs LHP

Olerud: 213 PA, .291/.413/.424 (.838 OPS)

Sprague: 158 PA, .247/.304/.363 (.667 OPS)

 

I mean, we won the World Series that year (and won that game) so it's not a big deal but can you imagine that happening today? The Brewers benching Christian Yelich in a playoff game so Ben Gamel could stay in the lineup instead? Insanity. Luckily that 1993 lineup was deadly even without Olerud.

 

Cito was terrible, man.

[TheHurl]

Glory said the BJMB equivalent to Beetlejuice. Mention it and he will come

[Spanky99]

Glory said the BJMB equivalent to Beetlejuice. Mention it and he will come

 

lol

[BlueRocky]

See my edit. I have Fangraphs in my corner on this one.

 

Like I said, Franco has a chance to be very, very good. I just don't think it’s fair to set the bar that high before even seeing an MLB AB.

 

Putting an 80 FV on a kid that just turned 19 and tasted full-season pro ball for the first time is pretty asinine. Sure, he could be that good. But nobody knows. The Rays don’t, Fangraphs and Eric Longenhagen certainly doesn’t. These guys gave Acuna and Tatis a 65 FV and Juan Soto a 50 FV. They’re setting the bar very high with this one by saying Wander Franco is going to be better than those guys.

 

Could he be? Sure. We will see. I just think its premature. He definitely needs to show more power. And being a switch hitter is a really difficult thing, don’t be surprised if he hits a speed bump or two.

Edited April 9, 2020 by BlueRocky

[Jimcanuck]

Like I said, Franco has a chance to be very, very good. I just don't think it’s fair to set the bar that high before even seeing an MLB AB.

 

Putting an 80 FV on a kid that just turned 19 and tasted full-season pro ball for the first time is pretty asinine. Sure, he could be that good. But nobody knows. The Rays don’t, Fangraphs and Eric Longenhagen certainly doesn’t. These guys gave Acuna and Tatis a 65 FV and Juan Soto a 50 FV. They’re setting the bar very high with this one by saying Wander Franco is going to be better than those guys.

 

Could he be? Sure. We will see. I just think its premature. He definitely needs to show more power. And being a switch hitter is a really difficult thing, don’t be surprised if he hits a speed bump or two.

 

Certainly wouldn't be surprised.

 

Baseball America has an 80 grade on the hit, 60 grade on the power. Fangraphs is not the only one projecting an elite MLB'er.

 

Apparently there is no real difference in the hit tool, from both sides of the plate. But more power from the left side, IIRC.

[Brownie19]

Like I said, Franco has a chance to be very, very good. I just don't think it’s fair to set the bar that high before even seeing an MLB AB.

 

Putting an 80 FV on a kid that just turned 19 and tasted full-season pro ball for the first time is pretty asinine. Sure, he could be that good. But nobody knows. The Rays don’t, Fangraphs and Eric Longenhagen certainly doesn’t. These guys gave Acuna and Tatis a 65 FV and Juan Soto a 50 FV. They’re setting the bar very high with this one by saying Wander Franco is going to be better than those guys.

 

Could he be? Sure. We will see. I just think its premature. He definitely needs to show more power. And being a switch hitter is a really difficult thing, don’t be surprised if he hits a speed bump or two.

 

The Franco/Lindor comp looks applicable, as does the Vlady/Manny comp. The question is - who would you rather have? Manny? Lindor? Tatis? Acuna?

[Beans]

John Olerud was a Seriously Underrated Baseball Player:

 

 

[Ryu In My House]

It would have been cool to see Olerud pitch. IIRC he was good enough to get a MLB look.

[BlueRocky]

Can someone invent a time machine, bring Olerud back and put him in this lineup? Or maybe Delgado?

[Spanky99]

Olerud and Delgado were monsters!

[Spanky99]

It would have been cool to see Olerud pitch. IIRC he was good enough to get a MLB look.

 

He was, but the aneurysm f***ed that up, guy's had one of the most natural swing in ball.

[BlueRocky]

There’s a live stream watch party tonight for the bat-flip game with several guests including Jose Bautista.

[Krylian]

There’s a live stream watch party tonight for the bat-flip game with several guests including Jose Bautista.

 

That will be 5 years ago this October. I can't believe that much time has already passed.

[Terminator]

There’s a live stream watch party tonight for the bat-flip game with several guests including Jose Bautista.

 

Bottom of the 7th is on now! Rangers have only f***ed up twice so two more f***ups and then it's the bat flip.

[Brownie19]

Bottom of the 7th is on now! Rangers have only f***ed up twice so two more f***ups and then it's the bat flip.

 

I can't believe it was 5 years ago this year. Time flies.

[BlueRocky]

 

There’s a good chance we’ll lose both Vancouver and Bluefield with the minor league re-alignment.

 

Franchises will be expected to have 4 full season teams and one rookie affiliate (housed in their spring training complex). Details and which teams not finalized. Facility standards will be higher and MLB teams will have more control over their affiliates.

[L54]

Does this mean they're going to start paying them?

[Spanky99]

Does this mean they're going to start paying them?

 

Sounds as much, bud! Same as ST on right?

[Beans]

I'm all for streamlining the minor leagues.

[glory]

I'm all for streamlining the minor leagues.

 

Agreed. I’d have to see the finished product before saying one way or another but there are too many rounds in the draft and too many minor league affiliates. Cutting it down might help somewhat. The only issue might be if it’s harder to make it to the minor leagues (much less the Majors), then it might make it less appealing of a sport to seriously consider for many athletes, but with Covid, Manfred is going to get his wish either way.

[Corporal Valdal]

What do people see in T.J Zeuch? Ive always liked him

[Jimcanuck]

What do people see in T.J Zeuch? Ive always liked him

 

pitching depth, not a core piece

 

has a chance to eek out a MLB career as a swingman type

[BlueRocky]

Agreed. I’d have to see the finished product before saying one way or another but there are too many rounds in the draft and too many minor league affiliates. Cutting it down might help somewhat. The only issue might be if it’s harder to make it to the minor leagues (much less the Majors), then it might make it less appealing of a sport to seriously consider for many athletes, but with Covid, Manfred is going to get his wish either way.

 

Apparently the franchise owned rookie teams like DSL blue jays will still be there. And the league announced a league wide salary raise a few months back.

 

In theory this will help crunch the rosters and eliminate the need for 40 round draft and too many org guys in the system. But bottom line this helps save a bit of money for the owners.

 

Some people liked the old system, it’s not the most efficient but it worked. Under the new system, there will be fewer opportunities for success stories like Kevin Pillar, but I guess they’re hoping quality over quantity.

Edited April 22, 2020 by BlueRocky

[Jimcanuck]

We will see a rise in independent leagues where the Kevin Pillar's of the world can go. Guys from independent league sometimes make the jump over to MiLB and MLB.

 

Some of the guys that are bypassed will make their way to baseball leagues in other countries to continue the dream. This could actually help grow the game elsewhere.