Offseason Roster Thread 2019-2020

[Dick_Pole]

I like that he can play all 4 infield positions well. He's cheap and relatively young with a history of being a good hitter so I feel that he can be better with some adjustments.

 

We need a backup IF either way and with no internal options, I don't think we can do better than Drury for 2.5 mil. Like Law, he's the type of bounceback candidate that we'd be going after anyways.

 

Pillar was consistently below average, while Drury was a good hitter to start and then became awful. Nowhere did I say that his entire track record was good.

 

For 2.5 million we aren't going to find a much better bet on the FA market, if we do at all.

 

So THIS is the Grant that irks this board so much. Makes much more sense now.

 

It would not take $2.5 million on the free agent market, nor someone coveted at a price above league minimum on the free agent market, nor even an external option to equal or better Drury's contribution to this team.

 

If you actually want someone good to be a backup, my contention is that money is much better spent on SP then OF then defensive 3B starter then RP over any player meant to be a backup MIF.

 

Defending Drury being tendered is defending laziness from the FO. It is the ultimate do nothing scenario. No attempt to upgrade, no attempt to negotiate. Just "here you go, here's $2M+ for 1.5 seasons of being a turd".

[BTS]

So THIS is the Grant that irks this board so much. Makes much more sense now.

 

It would not take $2.5 million on the free agent market, nor someone coveted at a price above league minimum on the free agent market, nor even an external option to equal or better Drury's contribution to this team.

 

If you actually want someone good to be a backup, my contention is that money is much better spent on SP then OF then defensive 3B starter then RP over any player meant to be a backup MIF.

 

Defending Drury being tendered is defending laziness from the FO. It is the ultimate do nothing scenario. No attempt to upgrade, no attempt to negotiate. Just "here you go, here's $2M+ for 1.5 seasons of being a turd".

 

Yup. Imagine a team like Houston or New York just accepting Brandon Drury and offering him $2.5M to stick around for no other reason than that he's already here.

[Barkerfan23]

Yup. Imagine a team like Houston or New York just accepting Brandon Drury and offering him $2.5M to stick around for no other reason than that he's already here.

 

Yep and that he can play multiple positions and once upon a time may have been an average hitter for a small sample size

[Grant77]

If the FO believes that a player will be worth his salary then they will pay him. Some here are adamant that Drury will never play any better than he did this past season. That's a fair opinion. I believe that he can be a 0.5 WAR player or better and justify 2.5 mil. Maybe the FO believes the same and maybe they don't. It's up in the air.

[glory]

To be fair, the Yankees had 26 year old Aaron Hicks put up a 64 wRC+ and -0.2 WAR in 2016 and tendered him for $1.35m. He then exploded at age 27.

 

I don't expect Drury to follow that path, but if a front office really likes a player, I could see them tendering him even coming off a horrible year. For reasons I can't quite understand the Jays think Drury is a good player even after Brian Cashman couldn't fix him, so he will probably end up getting 2020 to see if he's worth anything.

[Laika]

To be fair, the Yankees had 26 year old Aaron Hicks put up a 64 wRC+ and -0.2 WAR in 2016 and tendered him for $1.35m. He then exploded at age 27.

 

I don't expect Drury to follow that path, but if a front office really likes a player, I could see them tendering him even coming off a horrible year. For reasons I can't quite understand the Jays think Drury is a good player even after Brian Cashman couldn't fix him, so he will probably end up getting 2020 to see if he's worth anything.

 

I don’t think your point is even remotely fair. Hicks had more WAR in the 2/3 of a season before his stinker than Brandon Drury has in his whole career.

[glory]

I don’t think your point is even remotely fair. Hicks had more WAR in the 2/3 of a season before his stinker than Brandon Drury has in his whole career.

 

2013: 62 wRC+, 0.4 WAR, 313 PA

2014: 83 wRC+, 0.1 WAR, 225 PA

2015: 96 wRC+, 2.0 WAR, 390 PA

2016: 64 wRC+, -0.2 WAR, 361 PA

 

I mean, yeah Hicks had the nice season in 2015, but he was fairly bad outside of that. Drury had a 1.1 WAR and 92 wRC+ in 2017, and everything else has been s***.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect comparison, I was just responding to the notion that the Yankees wouldn't bring someone back coming off a terrible season. It's happened. Of course the Yankees could turn you or me into a good hitter, so I'd give them more of the benefit of the doubt with their judgment calls on players, but like I said Atkins likes Drury for some reason and we just have to live with him being tendered again. I would non tender him, but I'm not the GM.

[Barkerfan23]

Anyways keeping Drury will not have material impact anyways.

 

The first and the biggest question that needs to be addressed has nothing to do with rosters

[Orgfiller]

I don't think it's that crazy to bring Drury back, but not at his projected arb raise. The org can both still believe that there's more to Drury than what he's shown and that with his performance over the past two seasons doesn't warrant a $2.5M contract. I'd be fine with a deal in the $1-1.5M range or a minor league deal which turns into the same value if he gets called up during the season.

[saskjayfan]

Anyways keeping Drury will not have material impact anyways.

 

The first and the biggest question that needs to be addressed has nothing to do with rosters

 

We should be preparing to offer Cole a massive contract, not worrying about Drury. This idea that we're not ready to compete so we won't go after cole is ridiculous. A pitcher like Cole does not hit the market very often and if we don't sign him he could land in the AL and we could have to face him. He's going to sign for 7 years, maybe more. He might not accept the massive offer and he most likely will choose to go elsewhere, but not making the offer is a mistake.

[Barkerfan23]

We should be preparing to offer Cole a massive contract, not worrying about Drury. This idea that we're not ready to compete so we won't go after cole is ridiculous. A pitcher like Cole does not hit the market very often and if we don't sign him he could land in the AL and we could have to face him. He's going to sign for 7 years, maybe more. He might not accept the massive offer and he most likely will choose to go elsewhere, but not making the offer is a mistake.

 

They didn't offer that to price at the peak of our competitive cycle we could have had in the 2016 playoff run and things would have gone different

 

And you think they will bring in Cole. Dont get your Hope's up. Jaime Garcia and Clay bucholz are coming back

[BTS]

They didn't offer that to price at the peak of our competitive cycle we could have had in the 2016 playoff run and things would have gone different

 

And you think they will bring in Cole. Dont get your Hope's up. Jaime Garcia and Clay bucholz are coming back

 

Not what he said.

[Laika]

They didn't offer that to price at the peak of our competitive cycle we could have had in the 2016 playoff run and things would have gone different.

 

I know you are mostly just a troll, but this is not a great point.

 

There is a huge difference between adding someone like Cole to the 2015/2016 team that was already bloated with old players and veteran contracts on top of a thin farm and adding someone like Cole to a lean and mean 6-7 year team like the current Blue Jays appear to be.

[TheHurl]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M?

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

[Laika]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M.

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

 

I think if Toronto wants to be the high bidder and give him the richest pitching contract in baseball history then he'll come to Toronto. At this point you have to imagine that the high bidder will be giving him the Price/Scherzer contract + some inflation and it will set a SP record.

 

They won't do that and they probably shouldn't do that so at some point it becomes silly to even talk about it.

[glory]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M?

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

 

8/280. I think that's what the Jays would have to offer to get him. Every team interested in him will offer 7 years and likely around $34-35m a year, so the Jays will have to go beyond somehow.

[KevinGregg]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M?

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

 

https://www.stripes.com/sports/max-scherzer-s-210-million-contract-signed-in-2015-now-looks-like-a-bargain-1.591101

Instead, as Scherzer prepares to make his first start in two weeks, $30 million a year borders on a bargain. Now 4½ years in, the question is no longer whether the deal was worth it for the Nats. The question instead: Is Max Scherzer the best free agent signing of all time?

 

"Our evaluation of him, with our own algorithms, is he's worth about $60 million a year," said agent Scott Boras, who guided Scherzer through that process and convinced Nationals owner Ted Lerner that $210 million was a fair price.

 

Boras' evaluation may be true. But as Scherzer, the Nats hope, puts his slightly balky back behind him and to start Sunday in Atlanta, there's a more fun way than finances to evaluate his contract: performance. And Scherzer's is unparalleled.

 

If Boras thinks Scherzer is worth 60 Million then God help us. 7/280 would be my guess for what we'd have to offer and I don't really see us regretting it if he takes it

[Bobthe4th]

8/280. I think that's what the Jays would have to offer to get him. Every team interested in him will offer 7 years and likely around $34-35m a year, so the Jays will have to go beyond somehow.

 

Well if he got multiple offers at 7/245 is an extra year that much of a game changer? Who knows maybe as a Boras client he just goes to whoever offers the most, but as long as he gets a massive deal you'd think other factors have a bearing on his choice (e.g. California and/or a winning team).

[Laika]

Well if he got multiple offers at 7/245 is an extra year that much of a game changer? Who knows maybe as a Boras client he just goes to whoever offers the most, but as long as he gets a massive deal you'd think other factors have a bearing on his choice (e.g. California and/or a winning team).

 

I think ~$30M is a game changer no matter how f***ing rich somebody is.

[TheHurl]

7 years $260M is what I think he'll be seeking. Angels will be in play. Nats will be in play. Phillies will be in play. Astros with an opt out should be very appealing to Cole. That is without Dodgers, Astros and Yankees

[Brownie19]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M?

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

 

Doesn't this increase our chances? If he wanted to play for a contender or play in certain cities, than the Jays would have to offer significantly more or have some unique setup to draw him away from those teams. If he wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball....then the Jays just need to make that happen. I see that mindset as a bonus.

[Brownie19]

Honest answer. how much more do the Jays have to offer Cole for him to consider coming here? 2 extra years? Many opt outs? $30M?

 

Remember his history. The Yankees couldn't sign him out of high school offering him $4M as a high school pitcher (despite talking about how he grew up a huge Yankees fan). The Pirates had to offer him record money and he waited until 15 minutes before the signing deadline. He publicly complained that the Pirates didn't offer him above league min in his second year. He insisted on a trade when the Pirates talked extension with Polanco and not him. This is a guy that has Scott Boras as an agent and wants to be paid more than any other pitcher in baseball. I really think any offer the Jays make him is PR only.

 

They ran a story about how Cole's always had the long term goal of being the best pitcher at his age when he's 19, 20, 21, 22, etc. Apparently he would refuse to pitch in tournaments or for his team when he was 13 or 14 if it didn't fit into his throwing schedule. Him and his Dad have always been very focused on the goal (which probably made him a s***** teammate when he was young). Based on this and his actions when drafted, it doesn't seem like he brings emotions into his decisions. Eye on the prize guy.

 

I would be REALLY interesting to see what happens if the Astros ask him to throw on short rest, or come out of the pen on a couple of days rest during the ALCS or World Series. Leading into free agency - will he refuse to protect his arm/stock? Reminds me of the Kevin Durant situation.

[keggy]

They ran a story about how Cole's always had the long term goal of being the best pitcher at his age when he's 19, 20, 21, 22, etc. Apparently he would refuse to pitch in tournaments or for his team when he was 13 or 14 if it didn't fit into his throwing schedule. Him and his Dad have always been very focused on the goal (which probably made him a s***** teammate when he was young). Based on this and his actions when drafted, it doesn't seem like he brings emotions into his decisions. Eye on the prize guy.

 

I would be REALLY interesting to see what happens if the Astros ask him to throw on short rest, or come out of the pen on a couple of days rest during the ALCS or World Series. Leading into free agency - will he refuse to protect his arm/stock? Reminds me of the Kevin Durant situation.

 

Refusing to throw on short rest or come out of the bullpen during the playoffs would destroy his reputation as a teammate among baseball people. Better players than Cole haven't refused to pitch on short rest in the playoffs (Pedro, Smoltz, Schilling), even when they had career-threatening injuries.

 

Whether or not your personal reputation affects your payday is unclear. It certainly didn't seem to prevent Machado from getting paid.

[saskjayfan]

They didn't offer that to price at the peak of our competitive cycle we could have had in the 2016 playoff run and things would have gone different

 

And you think they will bring in Cole. Dont get your Hope's up. Jaime Garcia and Clay bucholz are coming back

 

Talk about apples to oranges. We had a payroll north of 150 when Price became a free agent. Our active payroll is 16 million dollars next year. We don't have any expensive arb players and Tulo will get paid 14 mil in 2020 and 4 mil in 2021 and then he's off the books.

 

There's no reason why a team like the Jays with the financial resources that they have to not pursue Cole. There should probably be 8 or 10 teams hunting for his services. I'm not expecting the Jays to land Cole, but they could at least pretend they are interested in the guy.

[Abomination]

Talk about apples to oranges. We had a payroll north of 150 when Price became a free agent. Our active payroll is 16 million dollars next year. We don't have any expensive arb players and Tulo will get paid 14 mil in 2020 and 4 mil in 2021 and then he's off the books.

 

There's no reason why a team like the Jays with the financial resources that they have to not pursue Cole. There should probably be 8 or 10 teams hunting for his services. I'm not expecting the Jays to land Cole, but they could at least pretend they are interested in the guy.

 

I'm not sure there really will be that many teams in the hunt. I think most of the big spenders aren't able to fit THAT large a contract in right now.

[Jimcanuck]

There should be a BJMB pool on who lands Cole. I'll go with the Braves.

[Slade]

I'm not sure there really will be that many teams in the hunt. I think most of the big spenders aren't able to fit THAT large a contract in right now.

 

The guys that want him will move money. I have no doubt about it that the usual players will be in it.

 

Dombrowski may have f***ed the Red Sox for Free Agency for a bit but I'm pretty sure their will be lots of teams willing to take on salary if it meant a good prospect is coming back. We'll probably be one of those teams.

[saskjayfan]

There should be a BJMB pool on who lands Cole. I'll go with the Braves.

 

I have the Yankees.

[Brownie19]

Refusing to throw on short rest or come out of the bullpen during the playoffs would destroy his reputation as a teammate among baseball people. Better players than Cole haven't refused to pitch on short rest in the playoffs (Pedro, Smoltz, Schilling), even when they had career-threatening injuries.

 

Whether or not your personal reputation affects your payday is unclear. It certainly didn't seem to prevent Machado from getting paid.

 

The difference (with Pedro, Smoltz, Schilling) is that Cole is about to be a FA. It certainly sounds like he wants to get his $$$....will he risk injury? I mean he probably will if it's for all the marbles....but what if they are down 0-3 in the series and Houston wants him to go on short rest?

 

Could get interesting.

[Bobthe4th]

I have the Yankees.

 

Angels all the way. Imagine Trout (best batter), Ohtani (best all rounder), and Cole (best pitcher) on the same team - they might even make the playoffs!