Osuna traded to the Astros for Giles, Perez, and Paulino

[Nook]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

[Carlos Danger]

amputation

 

lmfao:d

[Carlos Danger]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

 

I concur Doctor.

[TheHurl]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

 

Now please give your narrative about Osuna

[Krylian]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

 

Perez was ranked the Astros #8 prospects of I'm not mistaken, that includes position players.

[Nook]

No... there are very few closers that are head cases to the degree Giles is. He simply could not handle the pressure in the ALCS/WS last year and this year he again failed most the time against playoff teams. Not to mention Giles punching himself, telling his manager to f*** off and having multiple fits in the locker room. The Astros demoted him just to get him out of the locker room to deal him.

 

Maybe he bounces back in less of a stressful situation in Toronto and the Jays deal him at the deadline next year.... but even then teams know who Giles really is.

[Orgfiller]

Is this an Astros fan or your common troll?

[Boxcar]

No... there are very few closers that are head cases to the degree Giles is. He simply could not handle the pressure in the ALCS/WS last year and this year he again failed most the time against playoff teams. Not to mention Giles punching himself, telling his manager to f*** off and having multiple fits in the locker room. The Astros demoted him just to get him out of the locker room to deal him.

 

Maybe he bounces back in less of a stressful situation in Toronto and the Jays deal him at the deadline next year.... but even then teams know who Giles really is.

 

A fierce competitor who cares deeply about his performance?

[BTS]

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

 

Ken Giles has proven to be a mental midget in high pressure situations. He lost his closer job in the World Series and continued to melt down against the better teams this season. He is roundly disliked by his teammates and his coaches finally gave up on him after telling his manager to “**** off” and then blew up in the locker room as his teammates rolled their eyes. There is a reason Giles was sent to the minors and a lot of that was performance based.

 

Paulino is another player the Astros gave up on. His stuff isnÂ’t as good without PEDÂ’s, he is 25 years old and is constantly injured. He wasnÂ’t going to make the 40 man by this winter.

 

Hector Perez has #4 starter type upside. He is probably the 10-12th best pitcher in the Astros minors. He was about to be passed up by a bunch of younger pitchers in the Astros really deep pitching pipeline.

 

Unless Perez really improves or Giles all of a sudden figured it out (unlikely) the Astros win this deal handily.

 

Players like Cionel Perez or Martin are far better than Hector Perez.

 

Oh well.

 

Details on his stuff not being as good without the PEDs?

[Carlos Danger]

Is this an Astros fan or your common troll?

 

What is he saying that is not accurate...??

[Krylian]

If he can't handle the closers rolls you use him as a 7th or 8th inning guy. Those guys are very valuable as well. The point is, I have faith that a competent major league manager will put his players in the best positions to succeed.

[Nook]

Yeah by some ranking systems he is, but his upside is more limited by his age (22 in AA) and upside. Pitchers like Solis and a number of arms they have in A and low A are better prospects but only 17-18 years old and years away.

 

Hector Perez is a secondary piece to his former team. They have a number of guys similar to Perez that they have moved (Alcala for example).

 

Maybe Perez keeps developing but he isn’t all that great. He will likely eventually be a big leaguer but unlikely to be anything memorable.

 

I would far rather Cionel Perez or a number of other arms.

[Boxcar]

AJ Hinch seems like a nice guy but he's soft. Giles needs a real man like Gibby to smack some sense into him, hopefully not literally.

[Nook]

A mental midget that chokes in pressure situations and lacks the emotional development to deal with failure?

 

That is who Giles is and has been. Perhaps some day he will change but I wouldn’t count on it.

[Carlos Danger]

Perez was ranked the Astros #8 prospects of I'm not mistaken, that includes position players.

 

10th

[Grant77]

It's so difficult to judge this trade without knowing if there were any specific directives from ownership.

 

If we were forced to deal him then it's not a terrible return. It's obviously not close to what we could get for a blemish free Osuna, but it's better than what the Reds got for Chapman in my opinion.

 

On the other hand, I can't help but think what we could get for him if we let him play out the string and deal him in the offseason or next deadline. History has shown that relievers of Osuna's calibre can net a top ~20 prospect from a contending team. Instead of guys from the bottom half of the Astros top 10 we'd be looking at guys like Jo Adell, Justus Sheffield, Kyle Wright, Alex Verdugo, etc.

[Nook]

Normally I would agree with you but Giles struggled with that role in Houston.

 

Your best bet is to make him a closer on a rebuilding team, hope he does well without as much pressure and deal him at the deadline. He has an exceptional slider but has poor command of it. His fastball is 96-99 mph but flat.

[Krylian]

10th

 

Ok. Still pretty sure it wasn't 9 pitchers ahead of him.

[P2F]

A mental midget that chokes in pressure situations and lacks the emotional development to deal with failure?

 

That is who Giles is and has been. Perhaps some day he will change but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

'Reply With Quote' is your friend.

[Slade]

Just heard Blair on the Radio, he said he exchanged some texts with some people in player development with the Jays and they are very high on Perez. Maybe they think they can figure out his delivery and fix his walk issues.

[Dick_Pole]

This trade could not possibly have gone down better for the Jays. Chalk up another win for Shapiro and Atkins. I'd have to look up Mike Tyson's career boxing record but I can imagine their record for trades and signings is something similar to that.

 

Overlooking Osuna's recent issues, I would guess Giles has more pitches left in his arm than Osuna does, plus two prospects. And that ridiculous career FIP and K/9.

[TheHurl]

No... there are very few closers that are head cases to the degree Giles is. He simply could not handle the pressure in the ALCS/WS last year and this year he again failed most the time against playoff teams. Not to mention Giles punching himself, telling his manager to f*** off and having multiple fits in the locker room. The Astros demoted him just to get him out of the locker room to deal him.

 

Maybe he bounces back in less of a stressful situation in Toronto and the Jays deal him at the deadline next year.... but even then teams know who Giles really is.

 

Please allow me to do the same thing for Osuna

 

He is mentally fragile and had to leave the team last year after a breakdown.

He knocked up multiple women last year

He beat up one woman this year

He is roundly disliked by his teammates, and was upset that no one supported him publicly

He was upset that he had to get his own lawyer rather than a team appointed one

 

All of these are facts or things I heard directly from team sources. Paints a bad picture of him that makes it sound like he's a head case. I guess Houston is getting a s***** pitcher as well as a s***** person.

 

ALL CLOSERS are head cases.

[Jonn]

Just heard Blair on the Radio, he said he exchanged some texts with some people in player development with the Jays and they are very high on Perez. Maybe they think they can figure out his delivery and fix his walk issues.

 

Its not like hes a complete project hes actually had success hes just walks to many. The numbers he has put up despite that are actually extremely impressive.

[Carlos Danger]

Please allow me to do the same thing for Osuna

 

He is mentally fragile and had to leave the team last year after a breakdown.

He knocked up multiple women last year

He beat up one woman this year

He is roundly disliked by his teammates, and was upset that no one supported him publicly

He was upset that he had to get his own lawyer rather than a team appointed one

 

All of these are facts or things I heard directly from team sources. Paints a bad picture of him that makes it sound like he's a head case. I guess Houston is getting a s***** pitcher as well as a s***** person.

 

ALL CLOSERS are head cases.

 

I agree with you also... You can both be right you know..

 

I was over Osuna even prior to the DV.... I am just saying, getting Giles back is trading one issue for the other... I think Osuna is well on his way to blowing a lot more saves in the future.. Giles is already there....

[Jonn]

Just looking at how Indians acquired Kluber Carrasco Bauer

 

Almost all prospects their organization s had given up on

 

That's why you acquire as much talent as possible and hope for the best.

[Nook]

It depends on how you look at it.

 

Are there 9-10 pitchers that long term will prove to be better than Perez in their system right now? No.

 

However there are 9-10 pitchers in the Astros system that the Astros value more because they have more upside or are projected as starters. The Astros view Perez as a reliever and at 22 have a good idea of who he will become.

 

It may turn out that Perez is a solid reliever for years and Osuna blows his arm out. My point is that the prospects the Jays got have limited upside.

[Dick_Pole]

I agree with you also... You can both be right you know..

 

I was over Osuna even prior to the DV.... I am just saying, getting Giles back is trading one issue for the other... I think Osuna is well on his way to blowing a lot more saves in the future.. Giles is already there....

 

I hope he blows his first save opportunity with the Jays on a four K inning with a passed ball....

[Nook]

Osuna may be a terrible person and he may get in trouble again. I won’t debate that.

 

The difference between Giles and Osuna is that Osuna isn’t afraid of pitching in the biggest moments against the best competition.

 

He has dominated the AL East and has had an exceptional post season career.

 

Giles on the other hand doesn’t even compete,

[jays4life19]

This would be a good spot to post the small sample size song.

[Jonn]

Osuna may be a terrible person and he may get in trouble again. I won’t debate that.

 

The difference between Giles and Osuna is that Osuna isn’t afraid of pitching in the biggest moments against the best competition.

 

He has dominated the AL East and has had an exceptional post season career.

 

Giles on the other hand doesn’t even compete,

 

Do you have a doctor in psychology or do you just talk to Ken Giles everyday?