What can we get for JA Happ?

[BlueRocky]

Both Cleveland and Washington might be looking to add bullpen arms, but not sure Clippard, Oh, or Axford has enough value to pull a good prospect

[Grant77]

Both Cleveland and Washington might be looking to add bullpen arms, but not sure Clippard, Oh, or Axford has enough value to pull a good prospect

 

I'd probably keep Oh and his team friendly option.

[Jimcanuck]

This thread needs to be nuked.

 

nah, you need to stop being close minded

[Jimcanuck]

Both Cleveland and Washington might be looking to add bullpen arms, but not sure Clippard, Oh, or Axford has enough value to pull a good prospect

 

They don't. Tepera will return something moderate, a lower level lottery ticket.

[Terminator]

This thread needs to be nuked.

 

Why? People asking for too much or too little or what?

[Olerud363]

Why? People asking for too much or too little or what?

 

It's hilarious. Check out the Alex Verdugo question. Literally two guys slamming the original poster for opposite reasons.

 

Hello - First time caller long time listener can we trade Happ for Alex Verdugo??

 

Reply1 - Alex Verdugo is almost as s***** as Harold Ramirez. You my friend are an idiot.

 

Reply2 - No. Just No. The Dodgers would not do that. Your question is so stupid that I will not even give you an explanation. If I did give you an explanation (which I won't) I'd explain that J.A. Happ is a third rate veteran starter worth very little, and that Alex Verdugo is a prized prospect, a lefty hitter who will be the next Tony Gwynn, the Dodgers are not stupid enough to trade a legend for the mediocre Happ.

[Terminator]

It's hilarious. Check out the Alex Verdugo question. Literally two guys slamming the original poster for opposite reasons.

 

Hello - First time caller long time listener can we trade Happ for Alex Verdugo??

 

Reply1 - Alex Verdugo is almost as s***** as Harold Ramirez. You my friend are an idiot.

 

Reply2 - No. Just No. The Dodgers would not do that. Your question is so stupid that I will not even give you an explanation. If I did give you an explanation (which I won't) I'd explain that J.A. Happ is a third rate veteran starter worth very little, and that Alex Verdugo is a prized prospect, a lefty hitter who will be the next Tony Gwynn, the Dodgers are not stupid enough to trade a legend for the mediocre Happ.

 

I seriously cannot tell what is wrong and why King is acting like he's so above all of this. lol I'm not as big of a prospect hound as others and I know he is so if he could shed some light instead of just pissing in the cereal it'd be helpful.

[The Cats Ass]

This thread needs to be nuked.

 

King should be nuked

[Dr. Dinger]

I seriously cannot tell what is wrong and why King is acting like he's so above all of this. lol I'm not as big of a prospect hound as others and I know he is so if he could shed some light instead of just pissing in the cereal it'd be helpful.

 

He's a joyless ****, no big mystery here.

[Brownie19]

I'm sorry what

 

Sorry - I'm just curious why people are so interested in him.

 

Verdugo

2015 - 108 wRC+ in A, .325 OBP, .394 SLG (age 19)

2016 - 113 wRC+ in AA, .336 OBP, .407 SLG (age 20)

2017 - 118 wRC+ in AAA, .389 OBP, .436 SLG (age 21)

 

Harold Ramirez

2013 - 133 wRC+ in A-, .354 OBP, .409 SLG (age 18)

2014 - 117 wRC+ in A, .364 OBP, .402 SLG (age 19)

2015 - 163 wRC+ in A+, .399 OBP, .458 SLG (age 20)

2016 - 112 wRC+ in AA, .354 OBP, .401 SLG (age 21)

2017 - Current: BUST

 

Verdugo may have better raw power (seen some of that in AAA this year) and he throws better - but offensively, these 2 were pretty comparable IMO...

 

and FWIW, I never said NO to Happ for Verdugo - I just wondered why people were interested in him. Low K% seems like his best tool at the moment. Maybe some untapped power?

[Dr. Dinger]

Verdugo has a plus hit tool while you pretty much won't find a single baseball insider who think Ramirez will hit MLB pitching at an average level. Verdugo has defensive utility and a 70 to 80 grade throwing arm while Ramirez is a fringy defender who is definitely limited to a corner spot. I'm not a big proponent of Verdugo personally, but these days, guys with 45-50 range power and 60+ hit tools generally end up having better than expected power in the big leagues because over time they learn to lift and drive the ball, plus the MLB ball is juiced. Ramirez is going to bounce around as a 4th OF type if he can even make the majors, Verdugo has enough skills to project as a regular or perhaps above average regular. You should probably stop stat scouting.

[Brownie19]

Verdugo has a plus hit tool while you pretty much won't find a single baseball insider who think Ramirez will hit MLB pitching at an average level. Verdugo has defensive utility and a 70 to 80 grade throwing arm while Ramirez is a fringy defender who is definitely limited to a corner spot. I'm not a big proponent of Verdugo personally, but these days, guys with 45-50 range power and 60+ hit tools generally end up having better than expected power in the big leagues because over time they learn to lift and drive the ball, plus the MLB ball is juiced. Ramirez is going to bounce around as a 4th OF type if he can even make the majors, Verdugo has enough skills to project as a regular or perhaps above average regular. You should probably stop stat scouting.

 

Just to be clear - I'm not talking about 2018 Ramirez. He's clearly useless now (he's struggled to rebound after an injury right?). I'm talking about what we thought we had in 2016. I suspected Verdugo had better projectable tools, but he's certainly not shown it yet (although he's hitting well in AAA so far this year). Your tool report looks better than Fangraph's too btw.

[Terminator]

Sorry - I'm just curious why people are so interested in him.

 

Verdugo

2015 - 108 wRC+ in A, .325 OBP, .394 SLG (age 19)

2016 - 113 wRC+ in AA, .336 OBP, .407 SLG (age 20)

2017 - 118 wRC+ in AAA, .389 OBP, .436 SLG (age 21)

 

Harold Ramirez

2013 - 133 wRC+ in A-, .354 OBP, .409 SLG (age 18)

2014 - 117 wRC+ in A, .364 OBP, .402 SLG (age 19)

2015 - 163 wRC+ in A+, .399 OBP, .458 SLG (age 20)

2016 - 112 wRC+ in AA, .354 OBP, .401 SLG (age 21)

2017 - Current: BUST

 

Verdugo may have better raw power (seen some of that in AAA this year) and he throws better - but offensively, these 2 were pretty comparable IMO...

 

and FWIW, I never said NO to Happ for Verdugo - I just wondered why people were interested in him. Low K% seems like his best tool at the moment. Maybe some untapped power?

 

You are making a false equivalency. There is a comparison to be made in that both are hit tool first guys who are going to be stuck in a corner OF spot but you have to do more analysis than that.

 

Remember - Harold Ramirez used to be a prospect, he was on Pirates Top 10 lists. Then he fell off a cliff and is spending his third season in a row in AA at age 23. Verdugo never fell off the cliff. Instead, he went on to AAA where he put up another good season and a half and has gotten two cups of coffee in the big leagues. That's a huge difference that you are just throwing away, just because Ramirez failed to pan out doesn't mean that Verdugo has or will. Plus, Verdugo has more raw power, a better arm and is a year younger.

 

Add it all up and the two aren't as similar as you think.

[Terminator]

Just to be clear - I'm not talking about 2018 Ramirez. He's clearly useless now (he's struggled to rebound after an injury right?). I'm talking about what we thought we had in 2016. I suspected Verdugo had better projectable tools, but he's certainly not shown it yet (although he's hitting well in AAA so far this year). Your tool report looks better than Fangraph's too btw.

 

Ok just saw this but it actually illustrates my point. Ramirez used to be an actual prospect. Prospects fail all the time. Ramirez did. Verdugo hasn't yet. He's gone on to AAA and done well while being a year younger and showing off better tools than Ramirez.

[BTS]

Verdugo looks capable of putting up seasons similar to what Kole Calhoun has done before 2018, only with a better hit tool, maybe.

[Terminator]

Saying you don't like Verdugo because he has a similar profile to a failed prospect in Harold Ramirez would be like saying you didn't like Javier Baez in 2014 because he has a similar profile to a failed prospect in Brandon Wood.

 

There are reasons to not like Verdugo though. I just don't think comparing him to failed prospects is a legit reason.

[MarcoSanchez]

Hey Guys

 

Why not slap a qualifying offer to Happ. If he comes back at 1/18 that is great, cause we will have the payroll room next year with no long term commitment. If he doesnt a first round pick that everybody loves. Same with Donaldson.

 

I rather have 2 first round picks

[Shart]

I wonder if we could package Happ and JD for a bigger return?

[Brownie19]

Hey Guys

 

Why not slap a qualifying offer to Happ. If he comes back at 1/18 that is great, cause we will have the payroll room next year with no long term commitment. If he doesnt a first round pick that everybody loves. Same with Donaldson.

 

I rather have 2 first round picks

 

you don't get 1st round picks anymore GBill

[Brownie19]

Ok just saw this but it actually illustrates my point. Ramirez used to be an actual prospect. Prospects fail all the time. Ramirez did. Verdugo hasn't yet. He's gone on to AAA and done well while being a year younger and showing off better tools than Ramirez.

 

Fair enough. I'm just curious what people see in him. Stat scouting, I don't see much power (yet), I don't see great on base skills and I don't see big time speed or someone playing a premium position defensively. I see someone who doesn't strike out a lot. I had the impression there were lots of guys with good hit tools, but little else who flame out at the higher levels because pitchers don't fear their power or speed. Maybe that's more your high BB%, on-base kings who have no power.

 

Was just curious - you guys answered that. Some of you in a less condescending tone than others.

[Brownie19]

The score app suggests (theoretically) that Happ goes to the Yankees for Chance Adams, Everson Pereira and Juan De Paula

[Ray]

The score app suggests (theoretically) that Happ goes to the Yankees for Chance Adams, Everson Pereira and Juan De Paula

 

I'd much rather do Happ for Clint Frazier straight up. Quality over quantity. I'd even be willing to throw in a Ryan Tepera.

[Krylian]

I'd much rather do Happ for Clint Frazier straight up. Quality over quantity. I'd even be willing to throw in a Ryan Tepera.

 

We won't get Frazier for Happ. 2-3 B or C level prospects is way more likely than an A prospect for Happ.

[Brownie19]

I think this Frazier talk is a pure pipe dream. KC got next to nothing for Kelvin Herrera...

[P2F]

I think this Frazier talk is a pure pipe dream. KC got next to nothing for Kelvin Herrera...

 

It absolutely is. Prospect valuations have changed significantly over the past year or so. The recent success rate of prospects promoted to the bigs will do that - it's like nobody fails anymore.

[Daniel Labude]

Lots of talk recently about Happ and Tepera already getting a lot of interest

[Krylian]

Lots of talk recently about Happ and Tepera already getting a lot of interest

 

Good. Sell everyone. I want moar prospects.

[Brownie19]

It absolutely is. Prospect valuations have changed significantly over the past year or so. The recent success rate of prospects promoted to the bigs will do that - it's like nobody fails anymore.

 

Is this a reflection of improved scouting, projections and predictability tools?

[P2F]

Is this a reflection of improved scouting, projections and predictability tools?

 

It's likely a combination of a few reasons - the most significant being improved player development. With tools like Trackman and Statcast at their disposal, coaches and even the players seem to be more open to the idea of making mechanical adjustments than ever before and it's subsequently paying dividends, especially for prospects that have either stalled or taken a step back. You hear and read so often these days about a hitter making a swing change to put the ball in the air more often and he suddenly looks like he could be an above average player at the MLB level. The fly ball revolution has really reshaped the game.

 

The current MLB ball is helping as well.

 

I would love to go more in-depth about this sometime on a podcast episode.

[Brownie19]

It's likely a combination of a few reasons - the most significant being improved player development. With tools like Trackman and Statcast at their disposal, coaches and even the players seem to be more open to the idea of making mechanical adjustments than ever before, and it's paying dividends, especially for prospects that have either stalled or taken a step back. You hear and read so often these days about a hitter making a swing change to put the ball in the air more often and he suddenly looks like he could be an above average player at the MLB level. The fly ball revolution has really reshaped the game.

 

The current MLB ball is helping as well.

 

I would love to go more in-depth about this sometime on a podcast episode.

 

+1 - it's a fascinating topic.

 

I have to think teams are starting to catch up by promoting fastballs high in the zone to counteract the flyball revolution...