50 or 81?

[SAAviour]

Would you rather this team win 50 games or make it interesting in the summer and finishing at .500?

[Jonn]

50 obviously. .500 would suck

 

EDIT: I don't actually want them to win 50 games. I just don't want them to go on a fake run that results in keeping veteran UFA's instead of trading them for something. If they want to retool for one or 2 years cool but you have to shake some things up as well. If you really want Marco Estrada back trading him doesn't eliminate that possibility.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Jonn

[mtljaysfan]

Voted 50.

 

I want 90 wins obviously. If not then 50 wins. .500 season is the worst for the future of our team.

 

I think it's time to accept that our window of contending is closed and start a proper rebuild a la Cubs.

[Maahfaace]

50 obviously. .500 would suck

 

50 would have a huge impact on the payroll flexibility, because it would probably mean a huge dropoff in ticket sales and tv views. Rogers is sticklers.

[Governator]

If we won 50 games it means we are going to be terrible for yeeaaaars. It's hard to watch or care after a 15 game stretch, imagine many years of this.

[Jimcanuck]

I blame AA

[Brownie19]

If we won 50 games it means we are going to be terrible for yeeaaaars. It's hard to watch or care after a 15 game stretch, imagine many years of this.

 

That's what I was trying to say Gov - and it's true. But that said, when you tank/rebuild, at least you should accumulate a wealth of young talent and can draw interest in watching them develop. When you're a s***** old veteran team - it's the worst. Nobody gives a f*** how Martin does this season really.

[lostjoe]

I blame AA too

 

Sure he revived Baseball in Toronto

His teams had two strongs shots at a WS but had some bad luck

Added $700M USD to franchise value over his regime

Recreated a market for Baseball in Toronto that was tinkering on the brink of collapse

Gave us amazing memories of what it was like to be in contention

 

 

 

BUT HE TRADED THOORRRRRR OMG I HATE AA LOOK AT ME I CAN POST ON THE INTERNET TOO DESPITE THE FACT THAT I AM AN IMBECILE. MOOOOAOAARRR PEARCE, EVERY POSITION PEARCEEEE MOOOOARRRR PEARCE.

[HERPDERP]

I blame AA more than Shatkins but I still support what he did. We got two very competitive and interesting post season appearances. Remember where we came from

[Gary]

I prefer 65 wins.

[KingKat]

I prefer 65 wins.

 

Don't you mean 69 wins? It's not like you to pass up a chance at silly innuendo.

[fatcowxlive]

.500 is worthless unless your a rebuilding team that had a couple of poor seasons, then it's seen as positive progress. All .500 will do is give casual fans hope that they could "win 8 more games" next season and expectations will be high again. If we can't pull ourselves out of this rut by June we should blow it up - no question. We have no help in the minors that we could look too next season and we have the oldest team in the majors

[AdamGreenwood]

Depends.

 

If we could be a .500 club and still sell off a bunch of our assets for farm talent, then sign me up.

This isn't like fantasy baseball. Having a terrible club and finishing dead last has repercussions.

 

Fans stop going and watching on TV, resulting in less dollars, resulting in Rogers not wanting to spend on free agents or retain current players.

The better draft pick doesn't make up that much difference.

[Krylian]

The worst thing that could happen is that we win 50 games, and during that abysmal season, we continue to get bit by the injury bug all season long.

 

First, players that maybe we'd want to deal have diminished value due to the injuries, thus decreasing the chance that they'll move veterans for youth.

Second, management gets fooled into believing that it's the injuries that are the main factor in this team underperforming, and decide to just retool and try again next year.

 

I voted 50, but I hope to f*** we stay reasonably healthy.

[Bobthe4th]

.500 is worthless unless your a rebuilding team that had a couple of poor seasons, then it's seen as positive progress. All .500 will do is give casual fans hope that they could "win 8 more games" next season and expectations will be high again. If we can't pull ourselves out of this rut by June we should blow it up - no question. We have no help in the minors that we could look too next season and we have the oldest team in the majors[/b]

 

That just isn't true.

[glory]

If the Jays can't be good enough to make the playoffs, then they should be bad enough to justify moving pieces at the deadline.

 

.500 is like a nightmare scenario. This roster ain't getting better next year as is.

[SAAviour]

If we won 50 games it means we are going to be terrible for yeeaaaars. It's hard to watch or care after a 15 game stretch, imagine many years of this.

 

I disagree, I think winning 81sh games makes you terrible for years, and there is a 22 year stretch to prove it. Losing 50 this year accelerates the rebuild.

Plus people are commenting that Rogers will spend less....I think Rogers needs to see what a shite team does to the bottom line after the $$$ they have been raking in the last two years. When they see that they will realize it's best to rebuild fast and don't be cheap going forward, a good team is much more valuable.

[Gary]

Don't you mean 69 wins?

 

lol good one!!

[keggy]

This isn't like fantasy baseball. Having a terrible club and finishing dead last has repercussions.

 

Fans stop going and watching on TV, resulting in less dollars, resulting in Rogers not wanting to spend on free agents or retain current players.

The better draft pick doesn't make up that much difference.

 

This is a very straightforward exercise. You calculate the value of a first overall pick over a 15th overall pick and compare it to the lost attendance, television, and other revenue of a .500 team over the worst team in baseball.

 

Tanking to obtain an incremental increase in draft position for a team that just led the league in attendance and has the largest television market in baseball makes ludicrously bad business sense. We can build for the future without carpet bombing all the positive value the franchise has built up.

[glory]

Depends.

 

If we could be a .500 club and still sell off a bunch of our assets for farm talent, then sign me up.

This isn't like fantasy baseball. Having a terrible club and finishing dead last has repercussions.

 

Fans stop going and watching on TV, resulting in less dollars, resulting in Rogers not wanting to spend on free agents or retain current players.

The better draft pick doesn't make up that much difference.

 

The Jays aren't tanking though. They are actually trying to win. They have an old veteran team.

 

You can't prevent a bad season from happening in this case. If they were purposely tanking after making the ALCS last year then that's different. In this case, the Jays are bad in spite of trying to field a contender. If attendance, ratings, and revenue drop because of that, then what are you going to do?

 

And yes, this is AA's fault. When you build for one year, that's all you're going to get. Shatkins tried to extend the window for as long as they could and it just wasn't meant to be. At least we can keep track of the minors now and know that Vlad, Bichette, etc, might actually play for the Jays if they pan out, rather than be traded for Joey Votto.

[Daniel Labude]

This is a very straightforward exercise. You calculate the value of a first overall pick over a 15th overall pick and compare it to the lost attendance, television, and other revenue of a .500 team over the worst team in baseball.

 

Tanking to obtain an incremental increase in draft position for a team that just led the league in attendance and has the largest television market in baseball makes ludicrously bad business sense. We can build for the future without carpet bombing all the positive value the franchise has built up.

 

That's what you get when you limit the length of FA contracts, try to save money everywhere (just led in attendance...should be spending close to 200 MILLION...what are we this year?), your money saving signings don't play well, your team is the oldest in baseball, and are hit with key injuries early. "Tanking" is not really tanking....its just that we are the worst team in baseball period right now. As is...50 wins would be lucky to get to...don't think we are that low though. 60-65 wins seems realistic and would still probably be the 1st overall pick.

[fatcowxlive]

That just isn't true.

 

Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait

[Daniel Labude]

Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait

 

Alford....might not be the whole year but he should make it up here next season the way he has put it together so far this year

[Truthbombs]

I blame AA more than Shatkins but I still support what he did. We got two very competitive and interesting post season appearances. Remember where we came from

 

He made arguably the worst trade in franchise history. Dickey was inconsequential to our two post season runs, so had he not made that trade and you insert Thor into our already killer rotation, then there's your World Series team.

[Bobthe4th]

Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait

 

You said "we have no help in the minors that we could look too next season". Any of Gurriel, Urena, SRF, Alford, McGuire, Ramirez, Harris, Tellez, Greene, Pentecost can make it to the big leagues by next season or earlier.

 

Obv some of these players will never make it at all, but it's very unlikely that none of them will.

 

If by "legit impact player who can give us a big boost" you mean someone who could compete for rookie of the year, I'd put Alford and Gurriel as the most likely.

[fatcowxlive]

Alford....might not be the whole year but he should make it up here next season the way he has put it together so far this year

 

BIG impact I said, I'm not doubting that we'll have people up, but I'm saying a legit player who can help the team out immediately. Alford is great, but he's in his first season above high-A

[BTS]

I don't know that people are fully appreciating how bad a 50-112 team would be. We aren't doing any selling if we're a 50 win team. That means Bautista is finished, JD is hampered by injuries all year, Travis isn't actually good, multiple rotation arms have exploded etc... We'd have a trifecta of terrible things happening concurrently:

- watching a team so bad that they have one of the worst records of all-time

- watching the asset value of like half the roster crater

- watching fan support dwindle and payroll likely decrease as the org. becomes a national laughingstock

 

81 wins please

[fatcowxlive]

You said "we have no help in the minors that we could look too next season". Any of Gurriel, Urena, SRF, Alford, McGuire, Ramirez, Harris, Tellez, Greene, Pentecost can make it to the big leagues by next season or earlier.

 

Obv some of these players will never make it at all, but it's very unlikely that none of them will.

 

If by "legit impact player who can give us a big boost" you mean someone who could compete for rookie of the year, I'd put Alford and Gurriel as the most likely.

 

Huh? You think Gurriel is going to make the jump from high-A to the majors in one year? Man you guys are crazy lol

[Governator]

I disagree, I think winning 81sh games makes you terrible for years, and there is a 22 year stretch to prove it. Losing 50 this year accelerates the rebuild.

Plus people are commenting that Rogers will spend less....I think Rogers needs to see what a shite team does to the bottom line after the $$$ they have been raking in the last two years. When they see that they will realize it's best to rebuild fast and don't be cheap going forward, a good team is much more valuable.

 

 

Again... yeeeaars. You're talking 50 wins man. That's hard to do by trying let alone climb out of and get to 90+ again. It's much harder to fully rebuild a baseball team than say hockey or basketball. There is so much that isn't guaranteed in the game and hitting the reset button doesn't win you anything nor does it guarantee you'll even see a drafted player crack your MLB roster in 5 years. You can't just tank, nab Austin Matthews and make the postseason 8 months later. I have no problem being sellers at the deadline, dumping veterans for multiple draft picks or minor league talent but if someone gave me the option as a baseball fan to see my team win 50 games or be a .500 team I'll take the .500 every time with hopes of retooling to be better.

[P2F]

Huh? You think Gurriel is going to make the jump from high-A to the majors in one year? Man you guys are crazy lol

 

Absolutely. He will be fast-tracked barring major injury or a complete bed-s***ing.