Toronto Blue Jays Rebuilding Thread

[John_Havok]

You're all class.

 

You've seen his posts. Don't pretend you don't think the same.

[G-Snarls]

Pompey is still young enough to possibly rebound, but it is becoming less and less likely.

 

Carrera is making $1.2M this season, and is on pace for about 1.3 fWAR. I wonder what he will get in 2018, $2M ?

 

It seems the Jays would likely target a corner outfielder with 20-30 HR potential in free agency if the price is right, but there is not much out there other than Bruce, Martinez, and Carlos Gonzales (who is having a disastrous season).

 

Nothing wrong with Carerra as 4th OF for 2M

 

We just need upgrade our everyday corner OF spots - Maybe give Hernandez a shot in LF, and also acquire a legit corner OF via free agency to replace Bautista. Or can we count on Pearce to be an everyday OF next year?

Edited August 4, 2017 by G-Snarls

[saskjayfan]

You've seen his posts. Don't pretend you don't think the same.

 

He's most likely a regular poster who is trolling under a new account. He could be an adult fan taking a greater interest seeking out the board, but doesn't actually understand the intricacies of the game. He could be a 13 year old kid. Your comments are completely appropriate for scenario number 1. On the off chance he's one of the other types you could have tried to educate him. Let's just say I dont' think you'll be nominated for board marketing VP anytime soon!

[Terminator]

Or can we count on Pearce to be an everyday OF next year?

 

It's a good question but I don't think we can. His defense is atrocious and turns a good hitter into an overall replacement level player. I'd love to make him the DH who plays LF and 1B sparingly. With Morales here that's tough so I'd try to deal him but don't think we'd be able to. But that's not so bad, Pearce gets hurt a lot and Morales isn't so good that Pearce can't take some of (or even beat out) Morales' PT at DH. Plus, it'd be nice to have actual major league talent on the bench for once, even if it's guys who don't exactly offer up good defense. And having extra OFers allows Zeke to stay in an actual bench role instead of starting for 2/3 of the year like he seemingly always does.

 

I'd probably do something like this:

 

LF: FA Signing (Nunez or Kendrick would be ideal, they could move to 2B or 3B in case of injury and Pearce/Zeke can man LF)

CF: Pillar

RF: Hernandez

DH: Morales/Pearce

Bench: Carrera

Bench: Pearce(1B/LF)/Morales (1B)

 

If we do carry both Pearce and Morales I think it's kind of imperative to get a versatile LF who can play IF. Sign a decent backup SS and we then have some depth that should actually give Gibby some bench options. It seems like every year he doesn't have pinch hitters and his pinch runners suck and only come in because they are replacing someone who runs like their feet are set in cement. It could also provide the depth that would prevent us from seeing the abortion that our bench has given us this year. Just a quick look at our bench guys and they seem to have combined for about -4 WAR. What a joke.

[G-Snarls]

It's a good question but I don't think we can. His defense is atrocious and turns a good hitter into an overall replacement level player. I'd love to make him the DH who plays LF and 1B sparingly. With Morales here that's tough so I'd try to deal him but don't think we'd be able to. But that's not so bad, Pearce gets hurt a lot and Morales isn't so good that Pearce can't take some of (or even beat out) Morales' PT at DH. Plus, it'd be nice to have actual major league talent on the bench for once, even if it's guys who don't exactly offer up good defense. And having extra OFers allows Zeke to stay in an actual bench role instead of starting for 2/3 of the year like he seemingly always does.

 

I'd probably do something like this:

 

LF: FA Signing (Nunez or Kendrick would be ideal, they could move to 2B or 3B in case of injury and Pearce/Zeke can man LF)

CF: Pillar

RF: Hernandez

DH: Morales/Pearce

Bench: Carrera

Bench: Pearce(1B/LF)/Morales (1B)

 

If we do carry both Pearce and Morales I think it's kind of imperative to get a versatile LF who can play IF. Sign a decent backup SS and we then have some depth that should actually give Gibby some bench options. It seems like every year he doesn't have pinch hitters and his pinch runners suck and only come in because they are replacing someone who runs like their feet are set in cement. It could also provide the depth that would prevent us from seeing the abortion that our bench has given us this year. Just a quick look at our bench guys and they seem to have combined for about -4 WAR. What a joke.

 

All good points

 

That would make for an adequate lineup and defense

 

However, if we want to have any shot at contending in 2018 we need to upgrade the BP and back of the rotation too

 

It's a lot to ask

[Dick_Pole]

Pompey is still young enough to possibly rebound, but it is becoming less and less likely.

 

Carrera is making $1.2M this season, and is on pace for about 1.3 fWAR. I wonder what he will get in 2018, $2M ?

 

It seems the Jays would likely target a corner outfielder with 20-30 HR potential in free agency if the price is right, but there is not much out there other than Bruce, Martinez, and Carlos Gonzales (who is having a disastrous season).

 

I'd rather have a player with 5 HR potential with good defense, a .350+ OBP and some speed. The Jays have/have had enough players with 20-30 HR potential and not much else on their roster over the years.

[Terminator]

All good points

 

That would make for an adequate lineup and defense

 

However, if we want to have any shot at contending in 2018 we need to upgrade the BP and back of the rotation too

 

It's a lot to ask

 

Yeah for sure. Hernandez helps because he's free and he can also backup CF. If he can't get it done they have other options too. I'd just let him have the RF job to start. Nunez probably wouldn't be cheap. Kendrick wouldn't cost too much though. I'd probably go cheap on the bullpen. Make another 3 million dollar signing and some other depth moves and that's it for the pen.

 

The real money is going to be spent on the rotation. We've got 3 slots filled and I don't think Biagini is that bad either. His xFIP as a starter is 4.06. But he's probably better for depth so finding 2 starting pitchers won't be easy.

[Bobthe4th]

All good points

 

That would make for an adequate lineup and defense

 

However, if we want to have any shot at contending in 2018 we need to upgrade the BP and back of the rotation too

 

It's a lot to ask

 

It the basis of a team that could compete for a wildcard. And if people like Gurriel, Alford and Hernandez are good, then it could be even better.

 

And then in 2019 Bo and Vlad could be ready, Stroman and Sanchez could be entering their peak years, and we can concentrate on replacing Martin at C.

 

Of course the worst case is that injuries strike again, and none of the prospects pan out, but until that happens I'll remain positive.

[Bobthe4th]

Yeah for sure. Hernandez helps because he's free and he can also backup CF. If he can't get it done they have other options too. I'd just let him have the RF job to start. Nunez probably wouldn't be cheap. Kendrick wouldn't cost too much though. I'd probably go cheap on the bullpen. Make another 3 million dollar signing and some other depth moves and that's it for the pen.

 

The real money is going to be spent on the rotation. We've got 3 slots filled and I don't think Biagini is that bad either. His xFIP as a starter is 4.06. But he's probably better for depth so finding 2 starting pitchers won't be easy.

 

I think there's a good chance they give out a few short (1/2 year) contracts to either veterans or starters trying to rebuild value, on top of the usual AAA depth signings.

 

I hope we start the season with Biagini in the rotation, and if he can't do it then just move him to the bullpen. No point spending money on the bullpen, unless you go for truly elite relievers. Just do what we always do and pick up various cheap players, some who will be good, some who won't.

[Deadpool]

They just put Bautista on waivers? What took them so long but why did they wait until he is not batting that well since the all star break! They could of did it more better than the way they did it, no wonder why ATKINS never made the playoffs when he was in Cleveland! He should of stayed there no professionalism at all, that's a low blow. Bautista still is a good player, even his runs are at 60 and I was even thinking about adding him when his slump is over. Look at Russel Martin, he didn't bat worth of crap in the playoffs. Look at Aaron baby Sanchez who refuses to play for the Blue Jays this year! If that does not say that the Blue Jays are sitting well then what does one need to say?

 

Wait, do we have paid Russian trolls on BJMB now?

[wk680]

Nothing wrong with Carerra as 4th OF for 2M

 

We just need upgrade our everyday corner OF spots - Maybe give Hernandez a shot in LF, and also acquire a legit corner OF via free agency to replace Bautista. Or can we count on Pearce to be an everyday OF next year?

 

Yes, it seems one of the OF spots will be filled by an internal candidate (Alford or Hernandez). The big question is who would be that 'legit corner OFer' to target in free agency. Cain would be nice but the price and term may be too high. Also he probably would prefer to stay as everyday CFer. maybe a Carlos Gomez or Jarrod Dyson or Terminator's suggestion of Kendrick.

 

I'd rather have a player with 5 HR potential with good defense, a .350+ OBP and some speed. The Jays have/have had enough players with 20-30 HR potential and not much else on their roster over the years.

 

I don't think it will happen anyway. They aren't going to meet Martinez's price and the Mets are talking about keeping Bruce now. After that it drops off to pretty much nothing for free agent slugging OFers. Now is the time for the Jays to retool the offensive approach with more speed and less HR dependence.

[tazsub3]

You've never heard of the waiver trade deadline have you?

 

 

Oy this is a whole new level of uninformed stupidity

 

He should buy MLB the show, might teach him a thing or two about revocable waivers...

[mphenhef]

He should buy MLB the show, might teach him a thing or two about revocable waivers...

 

To be fair, he was probably placed on waivers early on before the string of good starts. I have seen some spots speculate he would make it through then. Some team with budget wiggle room might have taken a stab at him though.

[John_Havok]

Yes, it seems one of the OF spots will be filled by an internal candidate (Alford or Hernandez). The big question is who would be that 'legit corner OFer' to target in free agency. Cain would be nice but the price and term may be too high. Also he probably would prefer to stay as everyday CFer. maybe a Carlos Gomez or Jarrod Dyson or Terminator's suggestion of Kendrick.

 

 

 

I don't think it will happen anyway. They aren't going to meet Martinez's price and the Mets are talking about keeping Bruce now. After that it drops off to pretty much nothing for free agent slugging OFers. Now is the time for the Jays to retool the offensive approach with more speed and less HR dependence.

 

Speed is great when you need 1 run in the bottom of the 9th at home. It's no way to build a truly effective offense. The thing with speed is its only really useful if you get on base alot. If you're an average obp or worse... your speed doesn't really matter

 

But I think what you're saying is the Jays could afford to lose 1 3-outcomes guy and replace with 1 speed guy.

 

That's gonna happen on its own when Bautista is gone

[Angrioter]

Speed is great when you need 1 run in the bottom of the 9th at home. It's no way to build a truly effective offense. The thing with speed is its only really useful if you get on base alot. If you're an average obp or worse... your speed doesn't really matter

 

But I think what you're saying is the Jays could afford to lose 1 3-outcomes guy and replace with 1 speed guy.

 

That's gonna happen on its own when Bautista is gone

 

Chrone Figgins, Carl Crawford, Gary Matthews Jr

[Melvin]

Chrone Figgins, Carl Crawford, Gary Matthews Jr

 

Chrome Figgins was the best!

[wk680]

Speed is great when you need 1 run in the bottom of the 9th at home. It's no way to build a truly effective offense. The thing with speed is its only really useful if you get on base alot. If you're an average obp or worse... your speed doesn't really matter

 

But I think what you're saying is the Jays could afford to lose 1 3-outcomes guy and replace with 1 speed guy.

 

That's gonna happen on its own when Bautista is gone

 

Yeah switching out Bautista for a light-hitting speedster would be OK, but what I really mean is getting guys in there with speed and some pop, like Cain or Gomez that I mentioned above. Isn't Alford predicted to have the chance to be that kind of player (essentially a 20/20 guy)?

[sdyment]

Anybody heard if Estrada has cleared waivers?

[flafson]

Anybody heard if Estrada has cleared waivers?

 

I would guess teams would try to claim him so no point in trying to do so.

[P2F]

I would guess teams would try to claim him so no point in trying to do so.

 

What?

[John_Havok]

What?

 

I know, I'm curious as to the reasoning too. The whole point would be to trade him for something, then sign him again in the offseason if you wanted him back

[Krylian]

A very high % of players are put on waivers..can't remember the number, but this discussion seems to come up every season. And a lot go through. I would bet that Estrada has already cleared.

[Spanky99]

A very high % of players are put on waivers..can't remember the number, but this discussion seems to come up every season. And a lot go through. I would bet that Estrada has already cleared.

 

Over 90% easy.

[Slade]

Anybody heard if Estrada has cleared waivers?

 

He only went up yesterday per Rosenthal.

[flafson]

He only went up yesterday per Rosenthal.

 

They probably want to see what we can get for him vs. keeping him, if they like him they will probably try to resign him anyway, doubt we are getting any kind of discount for doing it now.

[John_Havok]

They probably want to see what we can get for him vs. keeping him, if they like him they will probably try to resign him anyway, doubt we are getting any kind of discount for doing it now.

 

Yeah, likely some teams have called to test the waters so in order to even go beyond preliminary lip service, they gotta try and get him through waivers.

[Spanky99]

I would guess teams would try to claim him so no point in trying to do so.

 

They probably want to see what we can get for him vs. keeping him, if they like him they will probably try to resign him anyway, doubt we are getting any kind of discount for doing it now.

 

Can you explain this, mate? The former...

[flafson]

Can you explain this, mate? The former...

 

They already said the team had interest in resigning him after the season and was unsure about trading him before the trade deadline, in other words, they don't want to trade him unless they felt like they could get something good for him and then re-sign him in the offseason.

Now that his stock went up, it makes sense to try and trade him again for a real return.

[Spanky99]

They already said the team had interest in resigning him after the season and was unsure about trading him before the trade deadline, in other words, they don't want to trade him unless they felt like they could get something good for him and then re-sign him in the offseason.

Now that his stock went up, it makes sense to try and trade him again for a real return.

 

Agreed.

[G-Snarls]

This season has helped the front office with one issue*

 

Bad PR outrage for letting Bautista walk will be negligible

 

(Even though letting him walk last year and trading for Jay Bruce would have actually worked out nicely in retrospect)... Even though most of us were dead set against it LOL