Around Baseball 2017

[Boxcar]

I'm angry.

 

Moss is not very good. Why be angry?

[King]

Moss is not very good. Why be angry?

How much better, if at all, is he than guys like Lind/Carter/Napoli? Those guys will probably sign quickly, after Moss is now signed.

[Laika]

How much better, if at all, is he than guys like Lind/Carter/Napoli? Those guys will probably sign quickly, after Moss is now signed.

 

Napoli > Moss = Lind = Carter

[RealAccountant]

Its not important how much better Moss is, the only thing thats important is whatever narrative you tell yourselves in order to justify an absolutely horrible offseason, and a front office that has no direction, is still operating as if its a small market challenged team, and a president who is unable to execute (Unless its Morales, lets sign him quickly or his fat ass might get away. By the Morales is still a free agent today looking for 1/8 Million if the Jays dont sign him)

[glory]

Yeah that seems like a terrible place for Moss to go. Maybe the guy likes pitchers parks that hold back his best skill.

[Abomination]

How much better, if at all, is he than guys like Lind/Carter/Napoli? Those guys will probably sign quickly, after Moss is now signed.

 

He's likely much better than those guys if played in the outfield, probably similar to Napoli if played at 1B.

 

Seems he wanted to stay in the St. Louis / KC area. I have to think he probably turned down stronger offers, because that's a steal for KC.

[burlingtonbandit]

How much better, if at all, is he than guys like Lind/Carter/Napoli? Those guys will probably sign quickly, after Moss is now signed.

 

As a fit for the Blue Jays he'd be the best one since he's a LH bat and is pretty good vs RHP and can also play a corner OF.

[Terminator]

Kendrys Morales' agent played Atkins like a fiddle. His contract keeps looking worse and worse.

[Laika]

Yeah Morales is going to have to significantly outperform his projections to make Toronto not look kind of stupid.

 

Billy Butler risk level

 

Of course, Toronto only targeted him because they have some reason to believe that he is the most preferably option out of all the mid-range DH/1B options that were on the market. They obviously think they landed the best guy for the job, from the pool they were looking in.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Laika

[wk680]

He's likely much better than those guys if played in the outfield, probably similar to Napoli if played at 1B.

 

Seems he wanted to stay in the St. Louis / KC area. I have to think he probably turned down stronger offers, because that's a steal for KC.

 

I think you may be on to something. Moss grew up 30 miles outside Atlanta, so that KS/MO part of the country may be more comfortable for him.

[wk680]

Kendrys Morales' agent played Atkins like a fiddle. His contract keeps looking worse and worse.

 

I think we should always remind ourselves that Toronto is not a desirable destination for free agents and that the Jays can be assumed to need to 'overpay' to get them in general. Also just remember those spray charts that predict he will be a good fit for ALE parks and think happy thoughts

[jaysfan2014]

Its not important how much better Moss is, the only thing thats important is whatever narrative you tell yourselves in order to justify an absolutely horrible offseason, and a front office that has no direction, is still operating as if its a small market challenged team, and a president who is unable to execute (Unless its Morales, lets sign him quickly or his fat ass might get away. By the Morales is still a free agent today looking for 1/8 Million if the Jays dont sign him)

 

Shut up. Morales would've been scooped up quickly by most clubs for similar money to what Toronto gave him--30 HR+ power, gets on base at a solid clip, and is about even on strikeouts with Edwin.. and neither of them should be playing 1B anyway, as both stink defensively. And who knows how Edwin will age?

 

And Brandon Moss is no longer a good player--poor in the OF, Ks too much, and doesn't hit for average or get on base..

 

Napoli and Carter are still unemployed because teams no longer what to give money to one-dimensional sluggers who just hit HRs and K 200+ times/season..

[Terminator]

Yeah Morales is going to have to significantly outperform his projections to make Toronto not look kind of stupid.

 

Billy Butler risk level

 

If Toronto doesn't sign him I'm not sure a team even gives him 2 years, let alone 3. Now we are stuck with an old positionless player for 3 seasons. They also tried giving Edwin way more money than he ended up getting. I understand the quick strike strategy that they like to use but it only works if you read the market well. If you don't you end up giving old DHs twice the money they would have gotten otherwise.

 

It's frustrating and a good example of why is that the contracts given to Moss and Valbuena combined were 5 million less than what we gave Morales.

[Laika]

Reading the MLB FA market isn't an exercise in rational foresight though. It's not simple to just, say, count the DHs and predict that the market will fall out.

 

The MLB FA market is irrational as f***.

 

I support a moderate quick strike strategy, year over year. Identify reasonable targets who could pay dividends and pounce on them. There is always risk in FA investing. It didn't particularly work with Morales (apparently, at this point in time) but it has paid off big for Toronto with JA Happ, should pay off big with Steve Pearce. Paid off big with Estrada (did he ever actually reach FA?)

 

Happ got significantly less money last year than Kennedy, Leake, Chen, Zimmerman, Shark, Kazmir... he outperformed all of them and nearly paid for his whole contract in one year.

Heck, he was better than Zack Greinke.

 

Getting slightly less $$ than Happ were guys like Gallardo, Anderson, Pelfrey - pieces of s*** that ended up being worthless.

 

Toronto clearly likes Morales. Maybe there's something in his statistical indicators that isn't obvious to us. We do already know about his hard hit rate being very good. Maybe he'll blow Moss et al. out of the water going forward. Maybe not. It doesn't mean Toronto's free agency policies are mistaken.

[Terminator]

Reading the MLB FA market isn't an exercise in rational foresight though. It's not simple to just, say, count the DHs and predict that the market will fall out.

 

The MLB FA market is irrational as f***.

 

I support a moderate quick strike strategy, year over year. Identify reasonable targets who could pay dividends and pounce on them. There is always risk in FA investing. It didn't particularly work with Morales (apparently, at this point in time) but it has paid off big for Toronto with JA Happ, should pay off big with Steve Pearce. Paid off big with Estrada (did he ever actually reach FA?)

 

Happ got significantly less money last year than Kennedy, Leake, Chen, Zimmerman, Shark, Kazmir... he outperformed all of them and nearly paid for his whole contract in one year.

Heck, he was better than Zack Greinke.

 

Getting slightly less $$ than Happ were guys like Gallardo, Anderson, Pelfrey - pieces of s*** that ended up being worthless.

 

Toronto clearly likes Morales. Maybe there's something in his statistical indicators that isn't obvious to us. We do already know about his hard hit rate being very good. Maybe he'll blow Moss et al. out of the water going forward. Maybe not. It doesn't mean Toronto's free agency policies are mistaken.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I like Shapiro and Atkins. Just don't like this Morales signing.

[Spanky__99]

Moss gets 2/$12

 

Whoa... that's cheap.

[Spanky__99]

As a fit for the Blue Jays he'd be the best one since he's a LH bat and is pretty good vs RHP and can also play a corner OF.

 

This.

[jaysblue]

I think we should always remind ourselves that Toronto is not a desirable destination for free agents and that the Jays can be assumed to need to 'overpay' to get them in general. Also just remember those spray charts that predict he will be a good fit for ALE parks and think happy thoughts

 

Yup, it doesn't mean Moss would have signed in Toronto at 2/12 like he did with the Royals. Likely would only sign a one-year deal here worth $8-10 million.

[wk680]

Reading the MLB FA market isn't an exercise in rational foresight though. It's not simple to just, say, count the DHs and predict that the market will fall out.

 

The MLB FA market is irrational as f***.

 

I support a moderate quick strike strategy, year over year. Identify reasonable targets who could pay dividends and pounce on them. There is always risk in FA investing. It didn't particularly work with Morales (apparently, at this point in time) but it has paid off big for Toronto with JA Happ, should pay off big with Steve Pearce. Paid off big with Estrada (did he ever actually reach FA?)

 

Happ got significantly less money last year than Kennedy, Leake, Chen, Zimmerman, Shark, Kazmir... he outperformed all of them and nearly paid for his whole contract in one year.

Heck, he was better than Zack Greinke.

 

Getting slightly less $$ than Happ were guys like Gallardo, Anderson, Pelfrey - pieces of s*** that ended up being worthless.

 

Toronto clearly likes Morales. Maybe there's something in his statistical indicators that isn't obvious to us. We do already know about his hard hit rate being very good. Maybe he'll blow Moss et al. out of the water going forward. Maybe not. It doesn't mean Toronto's free agency policies are mistaken.

 

Also there are things not measured by stats that come into consideration. I recall seeing it mentioned he has a reputation as a good teammate/clubhouse leader and has a championship with KC in 2015. He wasn't great in that playoff run, but he had his moments.

[burlingtonbandit]

Yup, it doesn't mean Moss would have signed in Toronto at 2/12 like he did with the Royals. Likely would only sign a one-year deal here worth $8-10 million.

 

Have a hard time believing playing in KC was worth that much to him. Perhaps we find out during his press conference.

[Spanky__99]

Morales signing ensured Gurriel. And maybe Mendoza.

 

That's what I tell myself.

 

It holds water...

[Hipfan]

Even if the Jays did overpay for Morales, the contract won't cripple the team. Imagine being on the hook for Greinke's contract, or Justin Upton? The Jays have been pretty smart in keeping the team competitive while not hamstringing the future. If Morales ends up sucking, it won't kill the team. If he ends up a league average bat, he's a decent value at $11M per year. If he manages to repeat his 2015 season (2.4 bwar, 127 OPS+), he basically pays for the contract right there.

[Pendleton]

Best wishes to Sean Rodriguez and his family. What a crazy story - their car was hit by stolen police cruiser!

 

http://wsvn.com/sports/atlanta-braves-confirm-player-family-involved-in-west-miami-dade-crash/

[Brownie19]

Best wishes to Sean Rodriguez and his family. What a crazy story - their car was hit by stolen police cruiser!

 

http://wsvn.com/sports/atlanta-braves-confirm-player-family-involved-in-west-miami-dade-crash/

 

That's terrible. As a parent, stories like these are hard to read. I can't even being to imagine.

[flafson]

That's so bad, I really hope the kids make it without any long term effects.

[Brownie19]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tyler-glasnows-considerable-stride-and-crucial-small-steps/

 

I thought this was a cool article. I love the chart of extension v. perceived velocity. Glasnow is in his own category all together...wish you could hover over the other bubbles and find out which pitcher they are though.

[baseballsss]

Even if the Jays did overpay for Morales, the contract won't cripple the team. Imagine being on the hook for Greinke's contract, or Justin Upton? The Jays have been pretty smart in keeping the team competitive while not hamstringing the future. If Morales ends up sucking, it won't kill the team. If he ends up a league average bat, he's a decent value at $11M per year. If he manages to repeat his 2015 season (2.4 bwar, 127 OPS+), he basically pays for the contract right there.

 

To be fair they are going to be paying an aging catcher and SS 20 mil a year each for a while.

[glory]

Morales signing ensured Gurriel. And maybe Mendoza.

 

That's what I tell myself.

 

Wasserman owing Shapiro every Cuban prospect they have because of giving Morales an extra year is fine with me.

[Governator]

To be fair they are going to be paying an aging catcher and SS 20 mil a year each for a while.

 

 

To be extra fair those were not deals done by Shapiro.

[G-Snarls]

To be fair they are going to be paying an aging catcher and SS 20 mil a year each for a while.

 

It was worth overpaying for Martin

 

We needed a legit catcher something awful, and guys of his caliber don't hit free agency every year