Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[Jonn]

With no DH they would have to make a trade? My guess is Peralta and Carpenter plays 3rd.

 

Yes that's what Ken Rosenthal was suggesting. That's why I brought it up.

[saskjayfan]

Anyone who paid attention and though that this team was going to continue to improve after 2015 had unrealistic expectations. That was never going to happen.

 

Maybe that's true. I have no problem spending Rogers money. Rogers seems less inclined to spend it!

[saskjayfan]

There is still a chance Bautista signs. I think it is a long shot, but he might be forced into a one year deal because no one wants to give up the pick. I would be okay with the off season if they got Bautista back.

[Jimcanuck]

Maybe that's true. I have no problem spending Rogers money. Rogers seems less inclined to spend it!

 

That's not true, Rogers did pony up and increase payroll.

 

Building a contender through FA signings worked years ago, but rarely works today. Shatkins knows the Jays need to get younger / more cost controlled talent to be WS contenders.

[burlingtonbandit]

I wonder what Toronto's price would have been. 82.5 was the price to play CF in St. Louis. Playing RF on turf in Canada would have cost, what, 5/90?

 

I don't think they would have paid much more. I think he signs with Toronto if they match the offer. The CF thing I feel isn't really an issue because its not like its going to hurt his value for his next contract, this is going to be his last deal.

[Ray]

That Fowler contract is an overpay, but not a gross overpay or anything. It would've been worth getting him on those terms, however he'd likely want 5/90 from us to play a corner outfield, on turf, and also for tax reasons. Cards made a win-now decision. It'll pay off.

 

He's been worth 4.8 fWAR over 2 injured shortened seasons but he hasn't proven he's a true talent level 5 win player going forward.

 

I was looking at bWAR, where he was listed at 5.3. Give him a whole season and I think he put up a 5+ win season. It's just a matter of whether or not he can play that full season healthy.

[RealAccountant]

That Fowler contract is an overpay, but not a gross overpay or anything. It would've been worth getting him on those terms, however he'd likely want 5/90 from us to play a corner outfield, on turf, and also for tax reasons. Cards made a win-now decision. It'll pay off.

 

 

 

I was looking at bWAR, where he was listed at 5.3. Give him a whole season and I think he put up a 5+ win season. It's just a matter of whether or not he can play that full season healthy.

 

lol bwar

[TwistedLogic]

While I'm sad to see Fowler go to the Cardinals, I'd like to thank him for giving me the opportunity to troll the f*** out of reddit on this blessed day.

 

[Krylian]

I wouldn't say that's the entire strategy we've employed as a franchise, but there has to come a point where you have to say no. That 5th year and a full NTC is a reasonable point to say that, imo.

 

I get that. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. But doesn't it feel like they're always coming up with a reason to say no. If you look hard enough you can find a problem with any deal. Just feels like they're trying to get the moon, the planets, and the sun to line up before the pull the trigger. I feel like the risk tolerance level here is very, very low.

[Krylian]

Compared to the initial offers of $60MM and the fact that his agent was reportedly chasing $72MM... I'd say it's about the max bid any team would go, not to mention surrendering their first pick of next year's draft in the process and giving a full no trade clause which only adds to their total investment. How much bigger would the Jays have had to go to land him and when is it considered an overpay?

 

I speaking in general terms as much as I'm talking about Fowler. I might do what the Cards did from a financial standpoint. I figure we'll have an extra pick or two with Edwin and Jose walking (not sure how Bautista will play out though). Not a fan of the full NTC. But I mean in general terms, when do you take that extra step and just lock someone up. So many people wanted to lock Andrew Miller up...and when he signed, a lot of people that it was a ridiculous contract. It's sure not that crazy today. I get that's just one example and there are plenty where the deal goes tits up, but I just wish there'd be a bit more risk taken here.

[Krylian]

That's not true, Rogers did pony up and increase payroll.

 

Building a contender through FA signings worked years ago, but rarely works today. Shatkins knows the Jays need to get younger / more cost controlled talent to be WS contenders.

 

If that's the case then you need to really retool...cause they're caught in in-between land right now. They have some high priced talent...some youth...but no youth ready to step in and create additional cost efficient alternatives, and not enough money to pay for a higher level of talent where they have holes.

[Brownie19]

I speaking in general terms as much as I'm talking about Fowler. I might do what the Cards did from a financial standpoint. I figure we'll have an extra pick or two with Edwin and Jose walking (not sure how Bautista will play out though). Not a fan of the full NTC. But I mean in general terms, when do you take that extra step and just lock someone up. So many people wanted to lock Andrew Miller up...and when he signed, a lot of people that it was a ridiculous contract. It's sure not that crazy today. I get that's just one example and there are plenty where the deal goes tits up, but I just wish there'd be a bit more risk taken here.

 

You might want to take a look at a list of the big contracts before you play this card...Might as well start alphabetically with the Angels. Let me know how you make out.

[snow19]

If Jose B comes over then I hope it will be

 

Pompey LF / Pillar CF / Pearce RF

 

Backup OF Sierra, Revere, Upton

 

Jose B 1B

 

Pinch Runner Upton

[Krylian]

You might want to take a look at a list of the big contracts before you play this card...Might as well start alphabetically with the Angels. Let me know how you make out.

 

I mentioned in my post that I understand that there are plenty of deals that don't work out.

 

But does that mean you never take a chance? I guess it does.

[Captain Adama]

Happ an Estrada were smart signings, no doubt, but it's not like they got paid nothing. They got paid like number 3s and played like number 2s. They could have played like number 4s. We made the wild card and Sanchez had a break out year. We had a very strong core last year.

 

We've now lost EE, Bats, Cecil, Saunders and Benoit and brought in Pearce and Morales. Are we a better team? Smoak couldn't crack the ALCS roster last year, and we are counting on him to bigger contributor for 162. If this team, doesn't do something else we're just a team that has a shot at a wildcard, rather than being a team that is more of a favourite for a wildcard that can compete with the division. There's still time, but I don't see the team bringing back Bautista. Fowler is still off the board. Our bullpen is thin. I don't see the guy that is the difference maker to put us over the top.

 

They were basically paid to produce between 1-2 WAR, so basically back end starters.

 

Furthermore, this team wasn't built to contend past 2016, the fact that we'll likely go into the year with the Jays having a realistic shot at a wildcard spot is a bunch more than anyone should have expected 2 years ago.

[Stangstag]

While I'm sad to see Fowler go to the Cardinals, I'd like to thank him for giving me the opportunity to troll the f*** out of reddit on this blessed day.

 

 

Haha that was great. A+ troll

[flafson]

While I'm sad to see Fowler go to the Cardinals, I'd like to thank him for giving me the opportunity to troll the f*** out of reddit on this blessed day.

 

 

I have never seen someone do something like that, it was believable and I didn't suspect a single thing even after I read here that you trolled.

[Pendleton]

If Jose B comes over then I hope it will be

 

Pompey LF / Pillar CF / Pearce RF

 

Backup OF Sierra, Revere, Upton

 

Jose B 1B

 

Pinch Runner Upton

 

Sierra?

[Jonn]

Sierra?

 

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1270041/SierraStopSign.gif.opt.gif

 

[jerb]

 

Jon Heyman Verified account 

‏@JonHeyman

Rangers talked to fowler but didn't make an offer, Jays offered but not close. Whoever bid close/more is #mystery team

[Krylian]

OK. So Fowler is gone.

 

Who's the next "obvious" target (not including Bautista)?

[Abomination]

OK. So Fowler is gone.

 

Who's the next "obvious" target (not including Bautista)?

 

Moss (among free agents).

[Jonn]

Moss barf. No thanks

[Abomination]

Moss barf. No thanks

 

He likely approaches 2 WAR at about 10M. Pretty decent value, and gives us additional power.

 

Coghlan probably offers by far the best value (he bounced back in the second half last year). Probably an above average hitter and defender in the OF. Coghlan is basically Seth Smith, except probably cheaper, more versatile, and a free agent. Revere is still somewhat interesting.

[Grant77]

OK. So Fowler is gone.

 

Who's the next "obvious" target (not including Bautista)?

 

On the trade market: Granderson, Smith, Dyson

 

On the free agent market: Moss, Pagan, maybe Rasmus.

[burlingtonbandit]

He likely approaches 2 WAR at about 10M. Pretty decent value, and gives us additional power.

 

Coghlan probably offers by far the best value (he bounced back in the second half last year). Probably an above average hitter and defender in the OF. Coghlan is basically Seth Smith, except probably cheaper and more versatile. Revere is still somewhat interesting.

 

Moss would be a great platoon guy. He smashes everything in the air which is a good fit for the division too. Coughlan I'm not a fan of and I'd be pretty disappointed with Revere.

[glory]

Moss barf. No thanks

 

Why? Hits rhp, average defender in the outfield, won't cost much for what he is. Seems like a solid fit.

 

Can't be hung up on strike outs when there is a talent deficiency. He fills a need.

[Ray]

Moss would be okay. Obviously would love Dyson.

 

Bautista should be our priority right now.

[Pendleton]

I'm fine with signing Moss to platoon with Upton in LF, but then we still need to cover RF.

[Jonn]

He likely approaches 2 WAR at about 10M. Pretty decent value, and gives us additional power.

 

Coghlan probably offers by far the best value (he bounced back in the second half last year). Probably an above average hitter and defender in the OF. Coghlan is basically Seth Smith, except probably cheaper, more versatile, and a free agent. Revere is still somewhat interesting.

 

He was abysmal in the second half. In fact most of his career he's either really good or really bad. I would prefer we find someone who is a little more consistent and athletic. He can play an OF corner but I don't think I want to see him play it everyday. Platoon hides him but he would still see more time in the OF than I would like. If worse comes to worse a cheap power option. But I would like to see us exhaust other options first.