Jose Bautista struggling to find a deal

[intentional wok]

What is the current version of the Doc trade anyway?

 

It was a third of the price for four years of Dickey and Thole + Devon Travis

[RealAccountant]

I thought for sure we had gotten an amazing haul. Earlier it had been reported that there was a deal invoking JA Happ ( lmao ) and one involving some Mariners prospects.

 

I remember at one point it was Clay Bucholz and at another point it was the WhiteSox that had a deal in place at the deadline

[Spanky99]

What is the current version of the Doc trade anyway?

 

It was a third of the price for four years of Dickey and Thole + Devon Travis

 

And Drabek is a converted SS now in the Giants system.

[Governator]

And Drabek is a converted SS now in the Giants system.

 

I guess I missed that blurb, that's awesome I hope he succeeds.

 

I was a big Drabek fan when he came here. So much promise after his first season in AA for us (including a no hitter). I had never been so let down as a Jays fan over the next couple years watching his arm fall off, Morrow fizzle and the diarrhea that became of Romero. It's like our talent & luck all peaked at various times and never could #cometogether.

[Brownie19]

I honestly was happy to see him go. I hated the JP years and I remember Rosenthal on the radio saying we had landed 3 blue chip prospects. I thought Drabek Wallace and TDA would be the future

 

How naive I was

 

what the f***s with this past tense nonsense?

[Spanky99]

what the f***s with this past tense nonsense?

 

Please, stop quoting him.

[burlingtonbandit]

Just sign him already! He's a perfect leadoff guy who gets on base over .360, and won't cost much.

[intrigid]

The Jays can't sign him until his agent convinces him to accept less than 5/150.

[Carp12]

Doc retired because of a medical issue unrelated to baseball.

 

 

 

I thought he retired due to his right shoulder

[baseballsss]

I thought he retired due to his right shoulder

 

Yah that's what I remember reading to

[Spanky99]

I thought he retired due to his right shoulder

 

He did shoulder and back issues... but he was also dealing with a hereditary illness...

 

There have been nonstop rumors about Roy Halladay’s health ever since he was pulled from a game after four sweaty innings in Chicago in 2011. And with good reason. Something has seemed… off… about Halladay. On the mound, he works himself into a lather more quickly than any other pitcher, and he always looks stressed. Despite being a workout fiend, he seems to tire more quickly than most and appears to have lost more muscle than he’s gained over the past year or so. And what started as unfair speculation has, over time, turned into reasonable doubt– there’s something wrong with Doc.

Yep, there is.

 

Halladay was pulled after 16 pitches last night when he couldn’t throw a baseball more than 83 mph. He has “arm fatigue” stemming from his shoulder surgery earlier this year and will miss the rest of the season.

 

But also, this:

 

Later in his postgame interview with reporters, Halladay admitted that this has been a “stressful” season. He went on to admit that he’s dealt with more than shoulder issues. He said he recently began taking medication for an illness related to diet.

 

“We got it figured out,” said Halladay, whose weight is noticeably down. “Some of it’s personal. It’s a family history deal. It took us a while to figure out the cause and basically it’s related to diet. They put me on some medicine that will prevent that from happening and ever since then it’s been great.”

 

He was optimistic because he felt no pain in his shoulder or arm. Manager Ryne Sandberg said Halladay had a “classic dead arm.” Sandberg was not aware of his illness. General manager Ruben Amaro Jr. insisted before the game that Halladay was healthy.

 

The 36-year-old righthander is gaunt. His body is overwhelmed. His shoulder is not strong. He was vague about the condition, saying “some of it is personal.”

 

Halladay said he is dealing with “arm fatigue” following right shoulder surgery in May, but he also revealed that he has been battling a recently diagnosed illness related to his diet, which runs in his family.

[bones10]

Bring him back

[ILikeSoccerandBaseball09]

When you get hurt shagging routine fly-balls teams won't line up to offer multi-year deals.

 

Only way id want him back is if he plays 1B but i've got a gut feeling Gibby will put him in RF everyday. After injuring himself twice in the OF and the amount of blunders he had in OF id rather just sign him to play 1B full time.

[Spanky99]

When you get hurt shagging routine fly-balls teams won't line up to offer multi-year deals.

 

Only way id want him back is if he plays 1B but i've got a gut feeling Gibby will put him in RF everyday. After injuring himself twice in the OF and the amount of blunders he had in OF id rather just sign him to play 1B full time.

 

I'm confused at the bolded... he's already said he'll do whatever a team needs, plus your GM makes the final call on position, Gibby will listen.

[Terminator]

Bring him back! 3 years, 45 million. Tell him to bring a 1B glove too.

[Spanky99]

Bring him back! 3 years, 45 million. Tell him to bring a 1B glove too.

 

lol

[Joshtowers]

Oh bautista bautista how was suppose to nose that something wasn't right here

[reedjohnsonfan]

I honestly was happy to see him go. I hated the JP years and I remember Rosenthal on the radio saying we had landed 3 blue chip prospects. I thought Drabek Wallace and TDA would be the future

 

How naive I was

 

At least they got Travis out of the deal (and Dickey but lets not go there!).

[reedjohnsonfan]

lol

 

why is that funny? I think most people would be open to 3/45 if Edwin walks.

[Spanky99]

why is that funny? I think most people would be open to 3/45 if Edwin walks.

 

I'm laughing at bring your glove too... asshat, did you even read this thread?

[RealAccountant]

I'm laughing at bring your glove too... asshat, did you even read this thread?

 

Quoted so he can see you as he most probably has you on ignore

[Pendleton]

Bautista's agent was quoted as saying Jose would be willing to "play anywhere (referring to position) and hit anywhere if it helps the team win". In theory he could possibly help fill at least two or more voids in this roster as a multi position guy.

 

Again that's in theory, because it's obviously contingent on him being able to successfully transition between two positions, and play effective 1B.

 

If we lose Edwin, add an every day RF (will use Fowler's name for this exercise) and bring back Bautista, we could distribute starts in roughly the following manner, barring injuries of course:

 

DH - Morales 110, Bautista 15, Other 37 (off days for Martin, Tulo, Donaldson etc)

 

C - Martin 130, Backup 32

 

1B - Bautista 65, Smoak 57, Morales 40 (Bautista vs LHP, Smoak vs RHP with Morales taking a bunch of starts from Smoak).

 

2B - Travis 145, Barney 17

 

SS - Tulo 150, Barney 12

 

3B - Donaldson 150, Barney 12

 

LF - Bautista 70, Upton 65, Carerra 27 (Upton vs LHP, Bautista taking the majority of RHP with some going to Carerra - also can take out Bautista for late inning defense).

 

CF - Pillar 150, Upton 7, Carerra 5

 

RF - Fowler 150, Carerra 12

 

vs RHP

RF Fowler

LF/1B/DH Bautista

3B Donaldson

DH/1B Morales

SS Tulowitzki

2B Travis

C Martin

1B Smoak/LF Carerra

CF Pillar

 

Vs LHP

RF Fowler

1B/LF/DH Bautista

3B Donaldson

DH Morales

SS Tulowitzki

C Martin

LF Upton

CF Pillar

[Terminator]

Hey I'd be all for something like that. I love Jose. I think it will be hard to bring him back with Kendrys on board though. Next year, yeah it might work out. But what about year 2 and 3? Bautista and Morales will continune to entrench themselves as DH-only types. If we are going to do it though that's the plan I'd suggest.

[Jimcanuck]

good chance Jose is worse in 2017 than 2016's 1.4 WAR.... at the age where a significant drop off can occur.... he is not swinging the bat with the same power/authority (permanent shoulder damage?) and is a major liability in the field

 

said it earlier, at this stage of his career, Jose is not hard to replace

 

the pick has more value

[Pendleton]

Hey I'd be all for something like that. I love Jose. I think it will be hard to bring him back with Kendrys on board though. Next year, yeah it might work out. But what about year 2 and 3? Bautista and Morales will continune to entrench themselves as DH-only types. If we are going to do it though that's the plan I'd suggest.

 

That's legit concern for sure, and ideally Bautista would come on a shorter term deal or at least one with a team option. Either way, I'd hope that a shift to 1B could help prolong Bautista's time on the field. The platoon role could work until Upton leaves next summer, and then you look at bringing in an every day LF and making Jose the full time 1B.

[Terminator]

good chance Jose is worse in 2017 than 2016's 1.4 WAR.... at the age where a significant drop off can occur.... he is not swinging the bat with the same power/authority (permanent shoulder damage?) and is a major liability in the field

 

Yeah this past season could have been the beginning of the end for sure.

[intentional wok]

I like Pendleton's idea about the cross field platoon starring Bautista. I think that's a pretty efficient way to mitigate the effect of his declining OF skills but also take advantage of what remains of his ability to just be a warm body in the outfield.

[Abomination]

good chance Jose is worse in 2017 than 2016's 1.4 WAR.... at the age where a significant drop off can occur.... he is not swinging the bat with the same power/authority (permanent shoulder damage?) and is a major liability in the field

 

said it earlier, at this stage of his career, Jose is not hard to replace

 

the pick has more value

 

Declines aren't usually linear. It's probably more likely that he improves quite a bit on last year. The swing is odd, and definitely needs an explanation. It seemed to me that he was throwing a little harder towards the end of last year though, which suggests to me it probably isn't the shoulder.

[Orgfiller]

The interesting, and enlightening thing about Bautista is that he was still a 122 wRC+ bat in what was considered a disaster of a season for him. The elite plate discipline did not deteriorate one bit, and the power numbers were lower than his standards set since the breakout, but a .217 ISO in what was again a down year is very impressive. One important thing to note is that despite his strikeout rate having a somewhat significant spike to roughly 20%, his plate discipline numbers remained rather unaffected for the most part, except one aspect. His swinging strike rate, contact within the strike zone and overall contact rates were right around his post-breakout norms, really the only noticeable difference here was his O-Contact% which was way below his standard, down around 10 percentage points from his previous 5 year average. This could mean couple of things:

 

1) Pitchers exploiting a new weakness that wasn't there before?

 

2) Declining batspeed, perhaps forced by his shoulder issues, not allowing him to catch up to certain pitches which he was able to foul off or put into play before?

 

3) Over-aggressiveness at the plate? Maybe he came up to bat in one too many critical situations forcing him to take unprecedented swings on bad pitches, or alternatively, the pressure of the moment getting to him, making him anxious at the plate.

 

4) Some combination of the above?

 

Edit: 5) Just variance and general randomness?

Edited December 2, 2016 by Orgfiller

[burlingtonbandit]

The interesting, and enlightening thing about Bautista is that he was still a 122 wRC+ bat in what was considered a disaster of a season for him. The elite plate discipline did not deteriorate one bit, and the power numbers were lower than his standards set since the breakout, but a .217 ISO in what was again a down year is very impressive. One important thing to note is that despite his strikeout rate having a somewhat significant spike to roughly 20%, his plate discipline numbers remained rather unaffected for the most part, except one aspect. His swinging strike rate, contact within the strike zone and overall contact rates were right around his post-breakout norms, really the only noticeable difference here was his O-Contact% which was way below his standard, down around 10 percentage points from his previous 5 year average. This could mean couple of things:

 

1) Pitchers exploiting a new weakness that wasn't there before?

 

2) Declining batspeed, perhaps forced by his shoulder issues, not allowing him to catch up to certain pitches which he was able to foul off or put into play before?

 

3) Over-aggressiveness at the plate? Maybe he came up to bat in one too many critical situations forcing him to take unprecedented swings on bad pitches, or alternatively, the pressure of the moment getting to him, making him anxious at the plate.

 

4) Some combination of the above?

 

He did make more contact within the strikezone so it could just be randomness. Like you said he still made overall contract at around the same rate as before.

 

As for the shoulder issues, he played with that last year and was just fine offensively. Injury wise I would think the knee would have contributed more to his power loss, which should be fixable.