Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[Terminator]

It's crazy how fast things change in baseball. 15 years ago we all thought closers were super valuable, then WAR came out and we all though relievers were a waste of money, now we think that WAR undervalues the contributions of elite relievers, and think they're pretty valuable again.

 

Yep that's pretty much where I'm at. I wonder if we see teams starting to mimic the Indians now. Where your #2 RP is your CL and your #1 RP is used earlier in the game. Or will that just be a playoff thing? I'll be interested to see how creative teams get with their relievers after this year's playoffs.

[KingKat]

Yep that's pretty much where I'm at. I wonder if we see teams starting to mimic the Indians now. Where your #2 RP is your CL and your #1 RP is used earlier in the game. Or will that just be a playoff thing? I'll be interested to see how creative teams get with their relievers after this year's playoffs.

 

It will be mostly a playoff thing. Players will want their normal roles. Starters will want shots at wins. Closers will want their 1 inning save and teams will be careful not to ride anyone too hard in the regular season.

[Laika]

Also, teams already rode their relievers a lot harder in the playoffs.

 

The special thing about this year was basically just Andrew Miller and his ability to go 6+ outs every freaking game. I don't think a typical closer can do that. I wonder if anybody not named Andrew Miller could do what he did.

 

We saw in game 7 Maddon tried to use Chapman like Tito has used Miller, and Chapman was not very good. And that's Aroldis Chapman!

 

So, it's not really something that can be copied IMO. But we'll see.

[RealAccountant]

Why didn't some of those JP teams do better? A lack of depth. I mean we had the second best pitching staff in baseball one year and somehow still only won 87 games

[Mittens87]

Also, teams already rode their relievers a lot harder in the playoffs.

 

The special thing about this year was basically just Andrew Miller and his ability to go 6+ outs every freaking game. I don't think a typical closer can do that. I wonder if anybody not named Andrew Miller could do what he did.

 

We saw in game 7 Maddon tried to use Chapman like Tito has used Miller, and Chapman was not very good. And that's Aroldis Chapman!

 

So, it's not really something that can be copied IMO. But we'll see.

 

Also Tito trying to use miller how he used Miller may have been starting to catch up on him. Miller and chapman both struggled in game 7. Chapman also blew 3 saves out of 7 chances. Miller had only given up 1 run in 15 or 16 innings up to game 7?

[Abomination]

Also Tito trying to use miller how he used Miller may have been starting to catch up on him. Miller and chapman both struggled in game 7. Chapman also blew 3 saves out of 7 chances. Miller had only given up 1 run in 15 or 16 innings up to game 7?

 

Seeing a reliever THAT many times in a series would also have given the batters multiple looks at him. I'm sure that made a difference too.

[TheHurl]

Also, teams already rode their relievers a lot harder in the playoffs.

 

The special thing about this year was basically just Andrew Miller and his ability to go 6+ outs every freaking game. I don't think a typical closer can do that. I wonder if anybody not named Andrew Miller could do what he did.

 

We saw in game 7 Maddon tried to use Chapman like Tito has used Miller, and Chapman was not very good. And that's Aroldis Chapman!

 

So, it's not really something that can be copied IMO. But we'll see.

 

It was said to be Eck that changed how teams used relievers. Eck was used lighter than most closers in the late 80's, early 90's and someone (whether correct or not I have no idea) established that the relievers who had more consistent ERA's (the indicator at the time) were pitching closer to 1 IP per outing and the guys that seemed to blow up (Dibble, Montgomery, Henneman, Assenmacher come to mind) pitched closer to 100 IP's.

 

How much would another 25 or so innings change Brad Brach's effectiveness? Hurt him longer term? I do agree that there are only a handful of guys that could be difference makers being 2 inning relievers throughout the season.

[Laika]

It was said to be Eck that changed how teams used relievers. Eck was used lighter than most closers in the late 80's, early 90's and someone (whether correct or not I have no idea) established that the relievers who had more consistent ERA's (the indicator at the time) were pitching closer to 1 IP per outing and the guys that seemed to blow up (Dibble, Montgomery, Henneman, Assenmacher come to mind) pitched closer to 100 IP's.

 

How much would another 25 or so innings change Brad Brach's effectiveness? Hurt him longer term? I do agree that there are only a handful of guys that could be difference makers being 2 inning relievers throughout the season.

 

The Yankees have essentially done the regular season version with Betances the last three years. He very often is asked to get 1.1, 1.2, or even 2.0 innings.

[Mittens87]

The Yankees have essentially done the regular season version with Betances the last three years. He very often is asked to get 1.1, 1.2, or even 2.0 innings.

 

Didn't betances have a lot of s***** outings at the end of this season? Walking a ton of guys

[Mkdaman1818]

Edited November 8, 2016 by TheHurl

[Mittens87]

 

These articles keep popping up. It's basically saying they are interested but haven't gotten anywhere yet. Don't get your hopes up

[burlingtonbandit]

Also, teams already rode their relievers a lot harder in the playoffs.

 

The special thing about this year was basically just Andrew Miller and his ability to go 6+ outs every freaking game. I don't think a typical closer can do that. I wonder if anybody not named Andrew Miller could do what he did.

 

We saw in game 7 Maddon tried to use Chapman like Tito has used Miller, and Chapman was not very good. And that's Aroldis Chapman!

 

So, it's not really something that can be copied IMO. But we'll see.

 

Can't forget Maddon burned Chapman the night before for almost 3 innings. I think that had a lot to do with not being effective in game 7.

[TheHurl]

Didn't betances have a lot of s***** outings at the end of this season? Walking a ton of guys

 

He also struck out 16 in those 10 innings. It's that kind of sss narrative that ends up with the media talking about players being tired. In 2015 and 2014 when Bettances was used much more, he had great second halves of the seasons.

[Mkdaman1818]

One more

 

[Mittens87]

He also struck out 16 in those 10 innings. It's that kind of sss narrative that ends up with the media talking about players being tired. In 2015 and 2014 when Bettances was used much more, he had great second halves of the seasons.

 

I didn't say he was tired. I know it's a small sample but in his case maybe he was being over used. I remember girardi having to use him for lots of games in short periods, not necessarily long outings, but didn't trust a lot of his other guys I guess. He just had some bad outings near the end, don't know why

 

Look at September used 4,5,6. 2 SO in two separate 1 IP back to back days on 4th and 5th. Then 0.1 IP and 2 er on 6th

 

Then used 13th,14,15. 2 SO and 1 IP on 13th. 1.1 IP and 1 SO on 14th. Then on the 15th 4 er and 0 outs recorded. I know he was used several times like that through out the year and did fine. But being the end of the year maybe it caught up with him

 

Don't know every factor during those games. But seems like girardi should of pulled him earlier when he blew a 5-2? Lead to Boston in the 9th, and almost blew a big lead in the 9th against us.

[burlingtonbandit]

Smells like a PR move to make it looked like they tried their best to sign EE.

[glory]

I can't see this front office giving Edwin four years. I think it's lip service as well, but we'll see.

[Jonn]

Smells like a PR move to make it looked like they tried their best to sign EE.

 

It's not a very good one if Edwin or his agent says after that they didn't. See David Price.

[L54]

I think Edwin will be back

[TheHurl]

I can't see this front office giving Edwin four years. I think it's lip service as well, but we'll see.

 

Higher AAV for 3 years with 2 options. Maybe vesting options even.

[RealAccountant]

These articles keep popping up. It's basically saying they are interested but haven't gotten anywhere yet. Don't get your hopes up

 

Do you even read

 

It says the two sides have had fruitful discussions and there is a good feeling something will get done. Source is Shi who knows plenty in the organization

[RealAccountant]

I cans we 4/90 with team options. This could happen.

 

Maybe Edwin has had some feelers and knows he won't get better. Why not stay home?

[Mittens87]

Do you even read

 

It says the two sides have had fruitful discussions and there is a good feeling something will get done. Source is Shi who knows plenty in the organization

 

So they signed him? No, that's what I said. They are interested, but haven't got anything done. Fruitful discussions means interested, same thing. It's pretty vague unless we're hearing actual numbers. You actually think they are close to signing before Edwin hears any offers from other teams? It will take awhile.

 

I want him back as much as anyone but don't get your hopes up. Don't need to be a dick because you are sad Edwin won't come back

[RealAccountant]

Edwin has already heard offers from other teams by now. This is the world of twitter and smart phones.

 

Maybe not the exact offers but by this point agents know where teams stands with their player and what they'd be willing to do

[Mittens87]

Maybe so. I would love for him to be back like you, and if they don't sign him they damn well do something. I'm checking these updates every couple hours too and it's just frustrating when they keep putting up articles but aren't actually getting any new info. I have some faith they will shell out 20+ million but if someone's going to go 25 we might be out of luck.

[BlueRocky]

Holy s***... it was fun big guy! That ask is absurd.

 

Doesn't surprise me.

Two or three teams might be willing to bite.

[THANOS]

I think Edwin will be back

 

Interesting. What do you think that contract is where the FO and Edwin are comfortable?

 

4/90?

[Mittens87]

Interesting. What do you think that contract is where the FO and Edwin are comfortable?

 

4/90?

 

4/90 max probably. Or 5/100? 5/100? Heard lots about Boston being interested, they already have lots of talent, if they cant fill a spot they have pieces to make some trades also. Why can't we spend like a top 3 team god damnit

[ILikeSoccerandBaseball09]

So who thinks Bautista is coming back?

[Stangstag]

So who thinks Bautista is coming back?

 

Nope. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he signs with the Orioles or Rangers. Seems like a good fit for those teams.