Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

[metafour]

As I said, regardless if Tulo hits 60 wRC+ and is a shitbag after the trade the process of making the trade was still solid. Hindsight is 20/20. You don't look at 200 AB's in a few months of a season and decide he's going to fall off a cliff after putting up like a 160 wRC+ over 800+ AB's and 10+fWAR over the last 2 seasons.

 

Like I said; I don't even agree with this. The "process" of the trade was covering up a mistake (Reyes) by throwing MORE assets and MORE money on a BAND-AID that in short time was likely just going to turn into another mistake himself (Tulowitzki). It was a band-aid solution , and just like a band-aid, its probably going to hurt a bit once we get to the point wherein its time to yank it off.

[ChrisS]

Who cares? They are a rebuilding team and knew what they were acquiring. Not only did they get two top pitching prospects, but they actually LOWERED their future financial commitment as Reyes was owed much less money than Tulowitzki. Its not like Tulo's 2-3 WAR value would make any difference on their non-contending team. In reality, getting rid of Tulo allowed them to play Trevor Story at SS this season. Story actually put the exact same WAR as Tulo...in 30 less games LOL.

 

They paid Reyes $40 mill to go away. Tulo came here with Price and helped make this franchise relevant again. I understand your point but I'm still glad he came here.

[metafour]

No, let's take a trade with a good process that didn't quite work out as hoped and compare it with a "came out of nowhere" best case scenario.

 

How was Cabrera a "came out of nowhere" surprise? He was worth 3.6, 2.6, 0.3, 1.6, and 2.2 wins the five years prior to the Mets signing him. Apart from that one 0.3 WAR season, he's been a consistent ~2-3 win SS, and he's a guy who's good for a consistent 140+ games a season. Its not like he was 40 when they signed him either; he was just turning 30 and therefore it wasn't ridiculous at all to assume that he had more performance left in him.

 

That just looks like smart decision making, not "luck".

[TheHurl]

How was Cabrera a "came out of nowhere" surprise? He was worth 3.6, 2.6, 0.3, 1.6, and 2.2 wins the five years prior to the Mets signing him. Apart from that one 0.3 WAR season, he's been a consistent ~2-3 win SS, and he's a guy who's good for a consistent 140+ games a season. Its not like he was 40 when they signed him either; he was just turning 30 and therefore it wasn't ridiculous at all to assume that he had more performance left in him.

 

That just looks like smart decision making, not "luck".

 

so who is the next "smart decision" free agent?

[Rusty_Savage]

If he was against signing players past their prime, he wouldn't have signed Bourn and Swisher. This is a different team in a different on the field and financial situation. If you think you are smarter than everyone else and can predict that Shapiro won't even try then go for it, but I think it's a fool's errand.

 

In my opinion, he sees value in every type of player and doesn't write them off because of some sort of silly age limit that you imagined. If EE is willing to take a number close to that value then a deal will get done.

 

Oh the hypocrisy

[wamco]

Except he has the least trade value of our 5 starters...

 

No s***. It gets osuna starting and clears potentially up to 13m to use elsewhere.

 

I'd ride with the 5 starters we got personally but many people want osuna to start

[Governator]

No s***. It gets osuna starting and clears potentially up to 13m to use elsewhere.

 

I'd ride with the 5 starters we got personally but many people want osuna to start

 

Trading Liriano at his lowest value to try and clear 13MM is what the Pirates did and it cost them 2 decent prospects in the process...

[Brownie19]

No s***. It gets osuna starting and clears potentially up to 13m to use elsewhere.

 

I'd ride with the 5 starters we got personally but many people want osuna to start

 

We'll that's stupid. Don't suggest stupid things please

[glory]

The problem with the Tulo trade is that the Jays are paying for what should be the twilight of his career, and it won't be cheap. If he had a few more 4-5 WAR seasons left in him, then you could live with the decline towards the end, but he's been a ~100 wRC+ hitter for the past two seasons, and he's just going to get older, slower, etc. If the defense slips at all, his value will plummet, unless his bat can bounce back from ages 32-35, which is possible I guess, but not likely.

 

It's a tough one because Reyes was so bad defensively, and Tulo's defense has been a big reason for the Jays being so good the last year and a half, but I can definitely see the argument of why it was short sighted. I felt that way when it happened.

 

AA is Dave Dombrowski's mini me. He takes risks and spends a ton. Some times the risks look great, but when they fail, it looks terrible.

[RealAccountant]

Liriano had 9.5k and 2.9bb in his 60 or so innings with Martin. He can be a valuable asset next year

 

If we aren't in it his trade value will be through the roof

[saskjayfan]

The problem with the Tulo trade is that the Jays are paying for what should be the twilight of his career, and it won't be cheap. If he had a few more 4-5 WAR seasons left in him, then you could live with the decline towards the end, but he's been a ~100 wRC+ hitter for the past two seasons, and he's just going to get older, slower, etc. If the defense slips at all, his value will plummet, unless his bat can bounce back from ages 32-35, which is possible I guess, but not likely.

 

It's a tough one because Reyes was so bad defensively, and Tulo's defense has been a big reason for the Jays being so good the last year and a half, but I can definitely see the argument of why it was short sighted. I felt that way when it happened.

 

AA is Dave Dombrowski's mini me. He takes risks and spends a ton. Some times the risks look great, but when they fail, it looks terrible.

 

you're so quick to write veteran players off. Troy Tulowizki is 32. I have a hard time believing his physical skills have slipped as much s you say. Switching leagues and getting used to knew environments can be tough on some and not a big deal for others. The birth of his child in 2014 is probably a bigger reason for the decline you've seen than his overall physical tools declining. He has a couple big years left in him.

[BTS]

you're so quick to write veteran players off. Troy Tulowizki is 32. I have a hard time believing his physical skills have slipped as much s you say. Switching leagues and getting used to knew environments can be tough on some and not a big deal for others. The birth of his child in 2014 is probably a bigger reason for the decline you've seen than his overall physical tools declining. He has a couple big years left in him.

 

I don't think he's written anyone off. He's pointed out that his bat has declined, and that his defense probably will too as he gets to his mid 30s.

[Belliss101]

Who else is hoping for a 4 game world series? I really want the off-season to officially begin.

[glory]

you're so quick to write veteran players off. Troy Tulowizki is 32. I have a hard time believing his physical skills have slipped as much s you say. Switching leagues and getting used to knew environments can be tough on some and not a big deal for others. The birth of his child in 2014 is probably a bigger reason for the decline you've seen than his overall physical tools declining. He has a couple big years left in him.

 

Not writing him off, but can't ignore how his bat has slipped the past two years, and he's at an age where you can't assume he'll just bounce back.

[RealAccountant]

I didn't realize how good Rowdy Teller's numbers were in the minorsb

[Spanky99]

AA couldn't do that again either; hence why all of his other trades for "MVP candidates" (Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes, RA Dickey, Troy Tulowitzki) proved to be colossal flops. The man made a once-in-a-lifetime trade.

 

Remember when we were acquiring an "MVP candidate" in Tulowitzki?

 

We got rid of Reyes by acquiring a player with an even bigger/longer contract. Tulo has been a ~2-3 WAR defensive player here. It was an alright trade, but hardly anything incredible considering that we've got 4 years left wherein you better pray that his defense doesn't decline, because his hitting has already regressed to league-average level.

 

Well, which one was it? Meh... it was a decent move.

[wamco]

We'll that's stupid. Don't suggest stupid things please

 

Liriano played well upon coming here and has 13m left as opposed to the 18 ish when we got him. If we were to trade a rotation piece which I don't want to, I'd rather it be liriano than the others

[Captain Adama]

Liriano played well upon coming here and has 13m left as opposed to the 18 ish when we got him. If we were to trade a rotation piece which I don't want to, I'd rather it be liriano than the others

 

I just hope you know you're not gonna get anything of value by trading him.

[Brownie19]

Liriano played well upon coming here and has 13m left as opposed to the 18 ish when we got him. If we were to trade a rotation piece which I don't want to, I'd rather it be liriano than the others

 

http://i.imgur.com/0Y4CXCz.gif

[fatcowxlive]

Liriano played well upon coming here and has 13m left as opposed to the 18 ish when we got him. If we were to trade a rotation piece which I don't want to, I'd rather it be liriano than the others

 

You need to understand that this isn't MLB The Show where you can turn off "force trades", nor is there some sort of "Overall" number floating over him to show that he's going through a bad stretch.

 

So I wonder what exactly you think we will get for him, unless you are suggesting that we give him away for free.

[jaysblue]

Only way Liriano nets something of value is at the trade deadline if he's pitched like his 2013-2015 form during the first half of the season and the Blue Jays are out of it.

[ILikeSoccerandBaseball09]

Listening to Dean Blundell and his sidekick asked literally everyone that they had on the show "Will they trade Stroman, will they trade Stroman"? NO they won't you f***head

[RealAccountant]

Only way Liriano nets something of value is at the trade deadline if he's pitched like his 2013-2015 form during the first half of the season and the Blue Jays are out of it.

 

The Jays are not going to be out of it. Even without any additions and losing Saunders/EE/Bau they are a 82-84 win team.

[jaysblue]

The Jays are not going to be out of it. Even without any additions and losing Saunders/EE/Bau they are a 82-84 win team.

 

Injuries and s*** happens over a 162 game season...

[Olerud363]

Injuries and s*** happens over a 162 game season...

 

Generally when people say jays are _x_ win team, the randomness if factored in...

 

most teams don't project for much more than high 80s, even good teams, cuz there is an expecation of s*** factored in

[Spanky99]

Injuries and s*** happens over a 162 game season...

 

You're replying to the dogg, bro.

[RealAccountant]

There will be positive surprises too. Every year there are a few. This is a great rotation we have

[wamco]

You need to understand that this isn't MLB The Show where you can turn off "force trades", nor is there some sort of "Overall" number floating over him to show that he's going through a bad stretch.

 

So I wonder what exactly you think we will get for him, unless you are suggesting that we give him away for free.

 

No s***. Don't play video games. Do you want to trade a sp or not? If not, we are in agreement

[wamco]

We'll that's stupid. Don't suggest stupid things please

 

What part is stupid? Trading a sp (which I don't want to do)

or trading liriano rather than stro , happ, Aaron or Marco?

[Governator]

What part is stupid? Trading a sp (which I don't want to do)

or trading liriano rather than stro , happ, Aaron or Marco?

 

I'll take none of the above for $400 Alex.