Bitching about Jose and Russell thread

[Inklink]

If he accepts QO I'm not even angry. Just transition him to 1B and stop expecting him to be who he use to be.

 

True, but for that to happen, he'll also need to stop acting like he is what he used to be.

[Hipfan]

Martin has been to the playoffs 9 of the last 11 years but has 0 world series appearances.

 

Before he arrived in TO, they went 22 years without the playoffs. I'll take it. I grew up watching those great Jays teams, and the Joe Carter home run will be forever burned in my mind. If you lived through those years, and then the following 22 years of wandering through the Ash/Riccardi wilderness, you learn to appreciate any playoff appearance, regardless of it's outcome!

[burlingtonbandit]

Are any of these morons who post about these things the jackass who ran on the field? I see a lot of similarities.

[glory]

His ego is too big to accept the QO, but I could see him coming back. Poor season by his standards, two DL stints, age 36, draft pick attached to him, has about as much range in the outfield as a pylon, etc. Wouldn't shock me if he comes back to the Jays when other teams don't give him the type of money he wants. I wouldn't mind if he did on a 1 year deal to be honest. Just stick him at DH.

 

The Martin contract, especially the way it was backloaded, was a bitch move by AA. He knew he was out the door and didn't have to deal with the worst part of the contract. Still had a fairly decent season but it was a big step down from last year. Have to hope he can bounce back next season. Maybe having a capable back-up will allow him to get more rest.

[BlueJays]

Whose shakin in their boots lol

http://i.imgur.com/islKkpH.png

[ChrisS]

This thread is embarrassing.

 

Exactly f***ing joke after what Jose has done for this club. Him and Martin have been banged up all year.

[ChrisS]

I think people are just frustrated after Bautista had a bad series, but kept running his mouth. Hard not to be annoyed when he says Merritt should be shaking in his boots facing this offense then they proceed to get shut out. You would think after Odor punched him that he would shut up, but even then he commented that it wasn't much of a punch.

 

I respect the guy for what he's done while he's been a Jay, but I'm also sick of his attitude.

 

I dont think any of us appreciate his attitude but to make a thread like this about those two, right after getting knocked out of the ALCS and probably the end of the Bautista era... cmon

[Funky]

I dont think any of us appreciate his attitude but to make a thread like this about those two, right after getting knocked out of the ALCS and probably the end of the Bautista era... cmon

 

Jose's attitude can be quite annoying, but I think it is part of the equation that fuels him. Unfortunately this year the attitude stayed but the fuel tank dipped. If the guy hit 35 homers, drove in 100 I think everyone tolerates the attitude that much more. Unfortunately he started the year on the wrong foot with the alleged contract demands then the dust up with Odor costing us a game, the injuries, capped off by a poor post season. I will never deny what he has done for us as he has been one of our top offensive power threats but it is time to move on. Best case is qualify him and get the first rounder when he signs elsewhere. The guy is done in the field and with the rotation we have I want a very good defender out there to back them.

 

Russell Martin makes way to much money for the offence he provides. Russell Martin earns every dollar for the defence he provides as well as the way he handles our staff young and older. I am stoked about next years starters. The two pups have that much more experience, Estrada gets healthy, Happ looks great and Liriano as a fifth with upside at only 13 million is way better than Dickey. Martin will handle and call the majority of games and meshes very well.

 

Tulo, Martin and Donaldson look like they will be the voices on the diamond and in the room. It will be an interesting offseason and with the rotation set hopefully we can focus on grabbing a few guys that can put the ball in play.

[SAAviour]

Holy f***, people seriously bitching about Russell Martin, the guy who lead one of the top starting staffs in baseball?? For f***ing real? Any of you understand what a catcher does?

This series was an embarrassment, we should have trashed on Cleveland, but we wouldn't be here without Martin, so f*** off!

Bautista needs to shut his mouth, you don't talk s*** when you are losing 3 games to 1.

[Treeplant]

Holy f***, people seriously bitching about Russell Martin, the guy who lead one of the top starting staffs in baseball?? For f***ing real? Any of you understand what a catcher does?

This series was an embarrassment, we should have trashed on Cleveland, but we wouldn't be here without Martin, so f*** off!

Bautista needs to shut his mouth, you don't talk s*** when you are losing 3 games to 1.

 

Yep, this.

 

Frustrating that Martin didn't have a better series, but not a reason on earth to be dissatisfied with what he continues to bring to the table. If he hits .225 without power next year we can talk then, but for now I'm not too worried.

 

Jose, on the other hand, has always bothered me with his whining over pitches. His "shaking in the boots" comment was beyond ridiculous, but at the end of the day he's done a good service to the franchise, so I tip my hat, say thanks for the memories, good luck wherever you go next. I hope we QO him and don't get taken up on it, but I'd rather risk losing the picks than ending up with him next year.

[vic city]

Martin is a G. His work with the pitchers is worth his weight in gold.

 

Bautista on the other hand can STFU and GTFO. Getting a draft pick for him would be amazing.

[Driveof85]

Martin is a G. His work with the pitchers is worth his weight in gold.

 

Bautista on the other hand can STFU and GTFO. Getting a draft pick for him would be amazing.

 

Are you insane? Martin s*** the bed once again, not too mention most of the season. I'll take Bautista back in a heartbeat.

[Spanky99]

The silver lining to any Jays loss is that the stupid people will go away, at least for several months.

 

No kidding... like, holy f*** man.

[CHRIS]

I think it would be nice if we could bring in a backup catcher who has more to offer than Thole did this year; which is pretty much anyone.

 

Would love to see Russell get a bit more rest next season, but at the same time, not feel like you're punting anything by not having him in there.

[LGBJ29]

Why would you even consider giving him an QO ?

 

With his ego,there is no way he would accept an QO,100%

 

face palm of all face palms

[AdamGreenwood]

Martins contract has Vernon Wells plus,written all over it.

 

Martin is worth the money for his pitch-framing and game-calling alone.

[KingKat]

So here's the list of free agent catchers. The challenge is finding someone how is good but not so good that he won't accept a backup job behind a 20 million dollar starting catcher.

 

Alex Avila (30)

Drew Butera (34)

Jason Castro (30)

Hank Conger (29)

A.J. Ellis (36)

Ryan Hanigan (36) — $3.75MM club option with an $800K buyout

Nick Hundley (33)

Chris Iannetta (34) — $4.25MM club option

Jonathan Lucroy (31) — $5.25MM club option with a $25K buyout

Jeff Mathis (34)

Dioner Navarro (33)

A.J. Pierzynski (40)

Wilson Ramos (29)

Carlos Ruiz (38) — $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Jarrod Saltalamacchia (32)

Geovany Soto (34)

Kurt Suzuki (33)

Matt Wieters (31)

 

 

[BTS]

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Jason Castro like 2/10 or something. No idea if he'd be OK catching 50 games, but he's a 1-2 win upgrade on Thole.

[mikedumar]

Have McGuire up and start learning from Martin... Youth is always essential

[saskjayfan]

This board is full of self assured jackass'. I'm one of them. I piss my pants laughing at people on here complaining about Jose's ego. He's an athlete who's reached the highest level after being doubted the entire first half of his career. He's just a highly competitive guy with all the confidence in the world. He had every right to go to free agency. The gamble he took didn't pay off. His value will be less. He knows this, but he will also feel his value is higher than the offers he gets.

 

I would absolutely extend him the qualifying offer, and not lose site of all the things he did for charity and what he did on the field for the franchise.

 

The team should have crushed Merritt yesterday, and also in the bullpen game. They had pitches to his in every game that they just didn't capitalize on. Outside of Donaldson and Saunders, the bats went cold. It's baseball. It happens.

[BTS]

Martin is worth the money for his pitch-framing and game-calling alone.

 

I have a problem with people looking at framing numbers and extrapolating the run values to WAR to comment on a catcher's financial market value. Teams have shown that they're willing to pay for offense and some aspects of catcher defense, but nobody is paying money for framing. They're certainly not paying for it at $8M per 10 runs, like they are for other quantifiable skills. There's no way Martin gets 3/60 on the market this offseason, even though his framing suggests that he should, for the same reason that Eric Kratz wasn't worth $100M.

[saskjayfan]

I have a problem with people looking at framing numbers and extrapolating the run values to WAR to comment on a catcher's financial market value. Teams have shown that they're willing to pay for offense and some aspects of catcher defense, but nobody is paying money for framing. They're certainly not paying for it at $8M per 10 runs, like they are for other quantifiable skills. There's no way Martin gets 3/60 on the market this offseason, even though his framing suggests that he should, for the same reason that Eric Kratz wasn't worth $100M.

 

he didn't get signed by the blue jays for 3 for 60 by the blue jays. He got 7 mil last year and posted a .787 ops and 15 mil this year and posted a .733 OPS. He played a lot of games where other players would be on the DL. There's no reason to suggest he won't bounce back next year and his offense wasn't abysmal this year. He's a .750 OPS catcher who plays good defense and brings a lot to a clubhouse. Is he going to be overpaid the next few years, sure. Given where salaries are going his salary isn't something that should kill a team. I don't believe he is going to fall off a cliff. In 2015 he provided tremendous value at the 7 mil he was paid.

 

He was ice cold this playoffs, hopefully next year he's red hot. That's how baseball goes.

[BTS]

he didn't get signed by the blue jays for 3 for 60 by the blue jays. He got 7 mil last year and posted a .787 ops and 15 mil this year and posted a .733 OPS. He played a lot of games where other players would be on the DL. There's no reason to suggest he won't bounce back next year and his offense wasn't abysmal this year. He's a .750 OPS catcher who plays good defense and brings a lot to a clubhouse. Is he going to be overpaid the next few years, sure. Given where salaries are going his salary isn't something that should kill a team. I don't believe he is going to fall off a cliff. In 2015 he provided tremendous value at the 7 mil he was paid.

 

He was ice cold this playoffs, hopefully next year he's red hot. That's how baseball goes.

 

Unfortunately, his great 2015 production has nothing to do with an evaluation of his value in 2017 and beyond.

[King]

Its easy to make fun of Bautista for it but the shaking in his boots meme was taken out of context. He was asked about the rookie starter and he said "He'll be shaking in his boots more than we are. It could go either way." Thats definitely not as bad as just, "He'll be shaking in his boots."

[HERPDERP]

Its easy to make fun of Bautista for it but the shaking in his boots meme was taken out of context. He was asked about the rookie starter and he said "He'll be shaking in his boots more than we are. It could go either way." Thats definitely not as bad as just, "He'll be shaking in his boots."

 

he still was pretty definitive in his statement, like it was 100% guaranteed he would be nervous.

 

He could've been a lot more neutral and said, "If Merritt is pretty nervous about today's start, we need to capitalize because it might be our only shot"

[King]

he still was pretty definitive in his statement, like it was 100% guaranteed he would be nervous.

 

He could've been a lot more neutral and said, "If Merritt is pretty nervous about today's start, we need to capitalize because it might be our only shot"

 

But who cares? Any rookie starter would be nervous in that situation, it's not a controversial statement. Credit to Merritt he pitched a great game. This is something I'm definitely not getting angry over which a lot of people are.

[intentional wok]

But who cares? Any rookie starter would be nervous in that situation, it's not a controversial statement. Credit to Merritt he pitched a great game. This is something I'm definitely not getting angry over which a lot of people are.

 

The whole discussion of it is silly. It was the mildest trash talk ever uttered, like something someone's grandmother would say. The Indians are chucking it back at him, but it's pretty much in good fun because they're supporting a new kid who stepped up and did a great job against seasoned vets. Jose's reputation precedes him here because he wasn't actually dumping on the guy.

[AdamGreenwood]

I have a problem with people looking at framing numbers and extrapolating the run values to WAR to comment on a catcher's financial market value. Teams have shown that they're willing to pay for offense and some aspects of catcher defense, but nobody is paying money for framing. They're certainly not paying for it at $8M per 10 runs, like they are for other quantifiable skills. There's no way Martin gets 3/60 on the market this offseason, even though his framing suggests that he should, for the same reason that Eric Kratz wasn't worth $100M.

 

Teams are definitely taking framing into account, when giving out contracts. But I think game calling has a bigger impact than pitch framing personally. Knowing what a pitcher can throw on any given day, as well as what the hitters are good at hitting, and having an idea what they're looking for based on small clues in the batter's box has a much bigger impact than people realize. There's no way Happ, Estrada and Liriano had the seasons they did without Martin.

[ValiantJaysFan]

Its easy to make fun of Bautista for it but the shaking in his boots meme was taken out of context. He was asked about the rookie starter and he said "He'll be shaking in his boots more than we are. It could go either way." Thats definitely not as bad as just, "He'll be shaking in his boots."

 

Someone who is as smart as Bautista thinks he is should know not to say anything that could be construed as a shot at the other team when you're down 3-1 and have done jack s*** all series. If he didn't know the media would run with that then he's an even bigger idiot than we give him credit for.

[BTS]

Teams are definitely taking framing into account, when giving out contracts. But I think game calling has a bigger impact than pitch framing personally. Knowing what a pitcher can throw on any given day, as well as what the hitters are good at hitting, and having an idea what they're looking for based on small clues in the batter's box has a much bigger impact than people realize. There's no way Happ, Estrada and Liriano had the seasons they did without Martin.

 

Based on what? Martin is the only great framer to get a big contract. A lot of great framers who *should* be worth 2+ wins with a whole season of playing time are signing contracts for a couple million bucks as a backup.

 

Someone like Tyler Flowers is an elite framer, and he was just non-tendered by the White Sox in favour of Alex Avila and Dioner Navarro before signing a 2/5 + an option free agent deal in Atlanta. Nobody was willing to pay for his framing. I don't think you can say that framing runs have the same market value as other runs, because they very clearly don't.