Liriano or Stroman

[bones10]

Guys I honestly have no clue how I feel about this. Liriano has only had like 5 good starts all year... and Stroman, while good for the most part, could very well be destroyed by the orioles.

[JoeCarter]

If you're just going to jump in here and act all Godly in knowledge because you can sort a Fangraphs leaderboard by xFIP and call all others f***ing mental who don't bite... you're off your meds.

 

Lulz. Sorry, I know it sucks when the actual numbers don't align with your pre-existing narrative. But at this point, you're not so much arguing with me as you are with math. Hey, I get it and you're hardly the first to get seduced by a small sample size into thinking a player is much better than they are. Here, let me try it another way:

 

- You! Strawberry! Good effort today. Take a lap and hit the showers. I'm putting in a right-handed batter.

- Pinch-hitting for me?

- Yes. You're a left-hander... and so is the pitcher. If I send up a right-handed batter... it's called playing the percentages. It's what smart managers do to win ball games.

- I've got nine home runs.

- You should be very proud. Sit down.

 

You starting to get it yet?

[intentional wok]

3:25 EST on SN teams are holding a WC conference, expect the teams starters etc, to be named.

 

I hate this league requirement. In situations like this there can be value in keeping an opponent guessing. Maybe a couple of hitters on the other side get a bit antsy trying to remember too many game plans for one game? Doubtful, but still. Why lay out the cards?

 

Guys I honestly have no clue how I feel about this. Liriano has only had like 5 good starts all year... and Stroman, while good for the most part, could very well be destroyed by the orioles.

 

Yeah, it's tough. The team playing so poorly this last week forced them to use their two top guys in the last two games. I'd kill for a fresh Sanchez tomorrow.

[RealAccountant]

Who would we rather face Tillman or Ubaldo

[SweetSmellingChacin]

It's kind of interesting that the Os have a very similar decision to make - Tillman or Ubaldo. Tillman, who probably won't be spectacular, but he's reliable and proven and he can probably pitch 6 innings, allowing maybe 3-4 runs. Or go with the hot hand, who is more of a boom or bust type pick in Ubaldo.

[Daniel Labude]

It's kind of interesting that the Os have a very similar decision to make - Tillman or Ubaldo. Tillman, who probably won't be spectacular, but he's reliable and proven and he can probably pitch 6 innings, allowing maybe 3-4 runs. Or go with the hot hand, who is more of a boom or bust type pick in Ubaldo.

 

If I was the Orioles it wouldn't even be a debate. I would pitch Ubaldo. He does everything that hurts our offense. Pitch away, and slow, and away, and slower. Only one time did we adjust and we blew him out. Other than that our hitters don't adjust to his syle of pitching and we lose our power and ability to put hits together. No idea who they will actually pitch though.

[Orgfiller]

Guys I honestly have no clue how I feel about this. Liriano has only had like 5 good starts all year... and Stroman, while good for the most part, could very well be destroyed by the orioles.

 

Any pitcher could be destroyed by any team. That's not really what you should be basing your opinion on, because then every scenario is a negative one. Liriano has a long track record of success albeit with great volatility from start to start every season. Stroman has experimented with multiple approaches this season, one of which was more successful than the other (arguably I guess), and was one of the best pitchers in the AL this season by multiple metrics.

 

We have to put someone out there, it won't be Happ or Sanchez, and you don't really want to mess too much with Estrada given his back issues. I think there are strong arguments for both Stroman and Liriano to be given the starting nod, and either of them could completely dominate or get shelled. I just hope the offense (and defense) is there to back them up no matter the outcome and that Gibbons is quick to pull the trigger without sacrificing too many wasted resources (i.e. bringing in any of Happ/Sanchez/Estrada unless absolutely necessary) for the potential ALDS series.

[Spanky99]

Lulz. Sorry, I know it sucks when the actual numbers don't align with your pre-existing narrative. But at this point, you're not so much arguing with me as you are with math. Hey, I get it and you're hardly the first to get seduced by a small sample size into thinking a player is much better than they are. Here, let me try it another way:

 

- You! Strawberry! Good effort today. Take a lap and hit the showers. I'm putting in a right-handed batter.

- Pinch-hitting for me?

- Yes. You're a left-hander... and so is the pitcher. If I send up a right-handed batter... it's called playing the percentages. It's what smart managers do to win ball games.

- I've got nine home runs.

- You should be very proud. Sit down.

 

You starting to get it yet?

 

But, it worked out...

 

[Spanky99]

I hate this league requirement. In situations like this there can be value in keeping an opponent guessing. Maybe a couple of hitters on the other side get a bit antsy trying to remember too many game plans for one game? Doubtful, but still. Why lay out the cards?

 

I believe they have too, derp, missed your "league requirement" I agree, it should be game time, but bets, vegas, etc, won't let that happen.

[Effit]

We better be ready to score some runs regardless.

 

Yes, I highly recommend this.

[SweetSmellingChacin]

Apparently, Stroman posted on his snapchat, "Cant wait to pitch"

 

Not confirmation, but I think it will be Stroman.

[Zaun of the Dead]

it definitely should be lirano but it's definitely going to be stroman

 

I would much rather face Ubaldo than Tillman

[Bojangles]

Apparently, Stroman posted on his snapchat, "Cant wait to pitch"

 

Not confirmation, but I think it will be Stroman.

 

What's Stroman's snapchat?

[CHRIS]

Whoever it is, I just hope they tell both guys to be prepared to be in that game at some point.

[Governator]

Lulz. Sorry, I know it sucks when the actual numbers don't align with your pre-existing narrative. But at this point, you're not so much arguing with me as you are with math. Hey, I get it and you're hardly the first to get seduced by a small sample size into thinking a player is much better than they are. Here, let me try it another way:

 

- You! Strawberry! Good effort today. Take a lap and hit the showers. I'm putting in a right-handed batter.

- Pinch-hitting for me?

- Yes. You're a left-hander... and so is the pitcher. If I send up a right-handed batter... it's called playing the percentages. It's what smart managers do to win ball games.

- I've got nine home runs.

- You should be very proud. Sit down.

 

You starting to get it yet?

 

 

Or you could go back the last 4 seasons and realize April - June, 2016 is a very sample sample of poor results from Liriano...

 

 

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Trolololol_3a74a5_2577940.gif

[SweetSmellingChacin]

What's Stroman's snapchat?

 

StroShow6

[SweetSmellingChacin]

If I was the Orioles it wouldn't even be a debate. I would pitch Ubaldo. He does everything that hurts our offense. Pitch away, and slow, and away, and slower. Only one time did we adjust and we blew him out. Other than that our hitters don't adjust to his syle of pitching and we lose our power and ability to put hits together. No idea who they will actually pitch though.

 

I think they go the safe route and pitch Tillman. Really, they only need 4-5 innings. If they have the lead after 5, they are in a great position with their bullpen.

[glory]

Baltimore just needs to have the lead after 5. O'Day, Brach, and Givens are handle 2-3 and Britton can go 1-2 depending on the situation. That's why I hate facing Baltimore in this game. The Jays have trouble against all starters now but their starter should be able to keep them in the game. A pen game so heavily favors BMore that the Jays can't afford to trail.

[Krylian]

Both. Twice through the order for one...then move to the other.

[BlueRocky]

Stroman has the best second half xFIP in the American League, and 2nd best in all of baseball (wedged between Fernandez and Syndergaard).

 

And you guys want to pass him over in favour of a mediocre LHP foisted onto us in a salary dump because he's strung together a handful of good starts.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2016 Blue Jays Message Board!

 

I love Stroman more than most guys, but even I can see his numbers against Baltimore has been disappointing this season.

 

On top of this, Stroman hadn't won a game since aug 14. He's had zero wins, 3 no decisions and 5 loses since that start.

Riding a cold hand into an elimination game isn't a good idea.

 

I'd sooner pitch Estrada on short rest. Might I remind you guys he dominated in the playoffs last year when the Jays faced elimination and he's been elite the past three games.

He's also amongst League leaders in batting average against, and has a decent SO numbers.

Three whole days of rest is generally what most pitchers get in the playoffs.

 

Liriano played well recently and Baltimore sucks against lefties, not by accident.

When he doesn't walk people, his stuff is filthy.

 

I voted Stroman but then i looked at the splits.

 

O's vs RHP: 4th in baseball: 107 wRC+

O's vs LHP: 26th in baseball: 83 wRC+

 

Save the better pitcher for the ALDS.

 

Exactly

[Spanky99]

Atkins sounds like he's leaning towards Liriano (hes on the Jeff Blair show rn).....

 

"You gotta think about pinch hit possibilities off the bench as well" Eliminating the kim weapon late in games?

"Which ever of the two we choose the other has to be ready to come out of the pen" I have a feeling that Stroman has better makeup of coming out firing strikes from the BP

 

But that's me reading into his statements, he's being tight lipped saying he's getting on the phone with Walker and Gibbons to go over everything and they can't go wrong with either one

 

Whoever it is, I just hope they tell both guys to be prepared to be in that game at some point.

 

Atkins said as much. ^^^

[rydermike]

I hate this league requirement. In situations like this there can be value in keeping an opponent guessing. Maybe a couple of hitters on the other side get a bit antsy trying to remember too many game plans for one game? Doubtful, but still. Why lay out the cards?

 

 

I'd love for Gibby to just mess with them. Announce dickey as the starter have him face one batter, then toss in liriano

[SweetSmellingChacin]

I'd love for Gibby to just mess with them. Announce dickey as the starter have him face one batter, then toss in liriano

 

 

That would be awesome. Kim starts, only to face the lefty Liriano.

 

Only problem is the 450 ft HR Dickey would give up to the first hitter.

[SweetSmellingChacin]

The Os can basically go with a bullpen approach.

 

Tillman: 2 innings

Ubaldo: 2 innings

Bundy: 1 inning

O'Day: 1 inning

Brach: 1 inning

Givens: 1 inning

Britton: 1 inning

[Angrioter]

Liriano x5, Stroman x4

[BigCecil]

Two good choices. I voted Liriano with the O's numbers against LHP. His command is always a worry. Pearce is an X factor they added. He mashed LHP this year. Liriano has been very good against them last 2 starts.

 

Stro has been pitching well. Excellent xFIP. Still, when he misses up with the 2S or doesn't elevate enough, he tends to get rocked. 16.5% HR/FB although that's been heading down.

 

Go with Liriano and is he clearly doesn't have it...quick hook to Stro. At the end of the day, our bats have to roll, or it wont matter.

[King]

I'd love for Gibby to just mess with them. Announce dickey as the starter have him face one batter, then toss in liriano

This would be interesting. Leave Dickey in 1 time through the order even and then put in Liriano. Dickey effect?

[JoeCarter]

Or you could go back the last 4 seasons and realize April - June, 2016 is a very sample sample of poor results from Liriano...

 

Heyyyy, look who's finally acknowledged that sample size matters!?! That's what I call progress! You should feel very good about what we've been able to accomplish today. I'll see you next week at the same time.

[jerb]

 

mark zwolinski Verified account

‏@markzwol

It will be Chris Tillman vs Jays, says Adam Jones - not confined by buck yet

[jerb]

 

Alex Seixeiro Verified account

‏@alexfan590

John Gibbons and the WC starter will speak to the media beginning at 3:30. @Sportsnet will have live coverage. #BlueJays #Orioles