What is wrong with Marco Estrada?

[baseballsss]

The same s*** you did

 

Out of curiosity why don't more teams go to the 6 man rotation then? Dodgers signed a bunch of starters that were injury prone so their innings would have been limited anyways and it would prevent them from being injured.

 

Teams with recovering TJS starters could limit innings that way but they still don't do it.

 

So why isn't this being done more around the league?

[KevinGregg]

Out of curiosity why don't more teams go to the 6 man rotation then? Dodgers signed a bunch of starters that were injury prone so their innings would have been limited anyways and it would prevent them from being injured.

 

Teams with recovering TJS starters could limit innings that way but they still don't do it.

 

So why isn't this being done more around the league?

 

It takes the league a while to pick up on things. First relief pitching was undervalued, then OBP was undervalued, then defensive shifts. Soon we may see the rise of the 6 man rotation!

[fatcowxlive]

Estrada hit a bump. No need for stats to see what's wrong with him, his curve was not located last game and last 2 his changeup has been hung. He needs solid command of fastball and changeup to not get crushed like he did in Milwalkee given his low velocity.

 

Also he needs a 3rd pitch, the curve, to work or else they'll sit mid-80s and adjust to the changeup. He needs the 3rd pitch in the rotation to keep hitters thinking.

 

Yesterday he had only 2 pitches working and his change was left up half the time, especially early, not exactly recepie for success

[Brownie19]

His velo seems a little down more 87 MPH than his usual 89-90. Command has been off too.

 

I always hear the turds on TV talk about Estrada's phenomenal command. He walking 3.21 guys per 9...do people on here really think he has great command? That's 25 worst in MLB (from qualified starters).

[Krylian]

I always hear the turds on TV talk about Estrada's phenomenal command. He walking 3.21 guys per 9...do people on here really think he has great command? That's 25 worst in MLB (from qualified starters).

 

I agree.

 

But wasn't there a recent piece, and I don't remember from where, and they were ranking the best.....fastball, curveball, changeup, etc...Estrada was rated as best changeup and best command in the AL. And I thought to myself...he walks a lot of guys for having this remarkable command people speak of.

[baseballsss]

It takes the league a while to pick up on things. First relief pitching was undervalued, then OBP was undervalued, then defensive shifts. Soon we may see the rise of the 6 man rotation!

 

Just make it a 10 man rotation save dem arms!

[GD]

Out of curiosity why don't more teams go to the 6 man rotation then? Dodgers signed a bunch of starters that were injury prone so their innings would have been limited anyways and it would prevent them from being injured.

 

their pitchers all died before they had any reason to

 

they had Ross Stripling as their 5 to start the year they sure as s*** didn't need to go any further down

[BlueRocky]

Ship is sinking for Marco. Rest of the team to soon follow.

 

right.

[Dick_Pole]

Out of curiosity why don't more teams go to the 6 man rotation then?

 

Because it's incredibly stupid roster management. An extra starter means one less BP arm or bench player. You're paying $10M for an extra Dickey-like #5/6 starter instead of less than $1M for the aforementioned bench piece which leaves you with $9M less to allocate to other needs to your team.

 

The only reason the Jays are doing/did this is:

-They have (had) two pre-arb arms in the rotation

-Signed two other SP to very reasonable deals in the off-season

-Have a geriatric ready to pitch 200 mediocre innings

-Lucked into an opportunistic trade mid-season

-Have been injury free in their rotation

 

Without all of these factors aligning, the Jays do not have a 6-man rotation.

[G-Snarls]

So, Estrada is starting tonight on normal rest against the Orioles

 

Big game for him

 

Come on Marco, you got this.

[jays4life19]

So, Estrada is starting tonight on normal rest against the Orioles

 

Big game for him

 

Come on Marco, you got this.

 

I heard a rumor Navarro will be catching tonight. I hope to god that's it's not true. The inner rage in me would be strong.

[Krylian]

ZOMG!!! Estrada suxxxxxxx!!!

 

Burn him at the stake!!!

[Plat]

I guess it was the extra day rest that messed him up

[gbill2004]

Maybe Edwin gave him an std.

[Nafro]

He picked up an STI on his cock sitting next to EE causing him to tip his pitches. Can't you see how much he is sweating in pain...

 

Nope, he got it riding a tractor.....

[RealAccountant]

I guess it was the extra day rest that messed him up

 

When he is too rested, he is throwing harder. Its not good for him to throw harder, when he is 90/91, he is bad. He is good when he is 87,88

[vdartanian]

When he is too rested, he is throwing harder. Its not good for him to throw harder, when he is 90/91, he is bad. He is good when he is 87,88

 

That's like saying you're better in the sack with a half-chub!

[Brownie19]

When he is too rested, he is throwing harder. Its not good for him to throw harder, when he is 90/91, he is bad. He is good when he is 87,88

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1118&position=P&pitch=FA

 

Estrada hasn't broken 90 MPH since going on the DL. His velocity is actually down since returning from the DL (and pitching in a 6 man rotation) and he was throwing his fastball harder earlier in the season when he was having a lot more success. You and Zaun should keep the nonsense to yourself.

[Brownie19]

Thank the Christ Navarro didn't catch him last night or Zaun and the causals would not only be jumping to the conclusion that the 6 man rotation was to blame - but also that Martin was to blame.

[BigCecil]

Nothing. He pitched well but he also got very lucky in the 6/7 with 3 LDs right at people. It could have gone the other way like Stro's last start where the GBs seemed to all get through. We deserve some luck for a change so its all good.

 

As others have said the narrative that the 6 man is making him throw too hard is false. A simple check of fangraphs shows his avg FB V and V overall is actually down from 2015.

[est1975]

Nothing. He pitched well but he also got very lucky in the 6/7 with 3 LDs right at people. It could have gone the other way like Stro's last start where the GBs seemed to all get through. We deserve some luck for a change so its all good.

 

As others have said the narrative that the 6 man is making him throw too hard is false. A simple check of fangraphs shows his avg FB V and V overall is actually down from 2015.

 

I totally agree with that. Stro seemed to have some terrible luck in his last start, but hey... that's baseball, right?

 

How have the Sabremetricians not come up with a metric that quantifies how deep in your ass the lucky horsehoe is? Assuming, the deeper it is - the better your luck would be? Hmmm

[Brownie19]

I totally agree with that. Stro seemed to have some terrible luck in his last start, but hey... that's baseball, right?

 

How have the Sabremetricians not come up with a metric that quantifies how deep in your ass the lucky horsehoe is? Assuming, the deeper it is - the better your luck would be? Hmmm

 

Um...they have? there are lot of advanced stats that help determine when a pitchers been lucky or unlucky.

[Governator]

I totally agree with that. Stro seemed to have some terrible luck in his last start, but hey... that's baseball, right?

 

How have the Sabremetricians not come up with a metric that quantifies how deep in your ass the lucky horsehoe is? Assuming, the deeper it is - the better your luck would be? Hmmm

 

 

In a nutshell it's kind of how a projection systems work such as Steamer. They are based on a player's true talent level which doesn't factor in luck.

[admin]

Nothing. He pitched well but he also got very lucky in the 6/7 with 3 LDs right at people. It could have gone the other way like Stro's last start where the GBs seemed to all get through. We deserve some luck for a change so its all good.

 

As others have said the narrative that the 6 man is making him throw too hard is false. A simple check of fangraphs shows his avg FB V and V overall is actually down from 2015.

 

I totally agree with that. Stro seemed to have some terrible luck in his last start, but hey... that's baseball, right?

 

How have the Sabremetricians not come up with a metric that quantifies how deep in your ass the lucky horsehoe is? Assuming, the deeper it is - the better your luck would be? Hmmm

 

Yeah there were like three hard line drives in a row right at our infield. Though his change up did look decent last night. He had Davis missing pretty good out there on a couple at bats.

And yeah, Stroman was the opposite last start from what I saw (didn't see the whole game). Seemed like there were 3-4 hits that weren't hard, but always inbetween infielders.

[intentional wok]

Did Estrada really get luckier than most SPs in a given start? Though I'll admit he benefited from the wide strikezone as much as Miley did. I thought Estrada looked like an okay version of himself but I wasn't entirely locked in to the game until late.

[BigCecil]

Did Estrada really get luckier than most SPs in a given start? Though I'll admit he benefited from the wide strikezone as much as Miley did. I thought Estrada looked like an okay version of himself but I wasn't entirely locked in to the game until late.

 

It was smart to use his CB as much as they did early on. He had good command of it and it kept them from sitting on his change. His change got better as the game went on I thought. Overall, very positive. I take your point on luck. JD's hit in the 1st was crushed and if it walled up, it might have changed that first inning. Luck is part of any pitchers game. The ump was consistent for most of the game, but I thought he squeezed Marco and Benoit late, which had me raging.

[G-Snarls]

Somethin'

[glory]

I thought Navarro's lazy ass defense and s*** framing was supposed to help Estrada?

 

I was lied to.

[FrodoBaggins]

I thought Navarro's lazy ass defense and s*** framing was supposed to help Estrada?

 

I was lied to.

 

rofl.

 

Where did this stupid idea start? Estrada pitched better with Martin for the first 3 months this season then he ever did with Navarro.

[BlueRocky]

He's clearly not 100%

You dont take six cortisone shots to the back for fun.